joewarkfanclub Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 2 hours ago, wellfan said: Gemmill and Clarke only retain their jobs because those who run the SFA are too insular and too stupid to see beyond their own four walls. Not sure thats true. Finances limit whats available and again its the risk v reward scenario. Do you fire a guy thats got you to 2 major finals and a World Cup play off in the hope you can get someone better? Gemmell should be nowhere near the U21s though. A proper progressive youth coach shouldnt be beyond the SFAs finances and there is no risk attached to making a change there as he has been generally shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, wellfan said: If you go back through this topic, you’ll see that the majority of us have been making the same comments about Clarke, Gemmill and the SFA for the past couple of years. And they’re not uncommon comments amongst fans of Scottish football. It’s utterly infuriating. It’s a situation that will likely take a vast protest at Hampden led by the Tartan Army before the jobs-for-the-boys cabal are finally ousted. You hear it all the time on Scotland trips as well, and theres nothing wrong with voicing the opinion that you want the national team to do better. Clarke is a cautious manager and his teams can be negative no doubt. Sometimes too negative. But see my previous post re risk v reward. I was looking at clips this morning of our game v Slovenia at Hampden in 2017 and there are large swathes of empty seats. Thats no longer the case under Clarke primarily due to his ability to get us winning games, especially at home. The SFA could sack him before the World Cup Qualifiers, but they wont because he has proved he can win games and put bums on seats. He will either qualify us for the World Cup and they will be vindicated. Or he will fail and he will be gone by November as his contract expires with our elimination. I re-iterate though, Gemmill should be gone. His teams dont even play the same style as the first team. That should be a pre-requisite to ready players to step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 You forgot the option where, like the Euros, he qualifies and then plays horrible tactics that see us fail worse than miserably - also like the Euros. Quite honestly, there are so many teams that qualify for the World Cup now, getting to the finals is barely a pass mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mio Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 To be honest, I’d have preferred we didn’t qualify than turn up and embarrass ourselves at tournaments. The way we played in those 2 tournaments was disgraceful and we were a laughing stock. The whole world recognises us as a team who play like Wimbledon in the 1980s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 2 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: I re-iterate though, Gemmill should be gone. His teams dont even play the same style as the first team. That should be a pre-requisite to ready players to step up. I mentioned that on this thread a year or two ago. The disconnect between the U21s and A squad is vast and epitomises one of the major issues we have with enabling better pathways for progression. To me it suggests, and it’s what I’ve said before, that each squad is managed as its own little fiefdom, which is complete madness for international football. We have zero strategic approach to bettering ourselves as a footballing nation on the international stage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 3 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: He will either qualify us for the World Cup and they will be vindicated. Or he will fail and he will be gone by November as his contract expires with our elimination. Or the other scenario is that we qualify for the World Cup, like the Euros, and shite the bed again, but on a global stage this time. As others have suggested, my view is that qualification should now be the bare minimum expected and not the main measure of success for a Scotland manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 30 minutes ago, wellfan said: Or the other scenario is that we qualify for the World Cup, like the Euros, and shite the bed again, but on a global stage this time. As others have suggested, my view is that qualification should now be the bare minimum expected and not the main measure of success for a Scotland manager. Qualification would be great. But if we went out in the same manner as the 2 previous qualifications then the result should be the same. We actually discussed this away in Greece. I think everyone would like to see us play more adventurously. A manager with a different outlook would help. But I think we are still a few players short of being able to do that competitively anyway. We certainly need to find a good striker, a couple of good centre halves (Souttar if he could stay fit would make it one) and a new goalkeeper. We talked about Will Sagnol, Bielsa and even big Ange as the kind of managers we would like. How realistic any of them are on the money the SFA can pay is another matter. I guess Wimmer is the perfect proof of someone we have never heard of being able to do far more with the same players though (albeit still early days) so maybe there is someone out there on our budget..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 3 hours ago, weeyin said: You forgot the option where, like the Euros, he qualifies and then plays horrible tactics that see us fail worse than miserably - also like the Euros. Quite honestly, there are so many teams that qualify for the World Cup now, getting to the finals is barely a pass mark. There are a lot of teams at the World Cup, but its statistically harder for European teams to qualify now due to the way the extra teams have been distributed through the other federations. Qualifying for the World Cup would be a much bigger achievement for Clarke than the 2 Euros. I agree though, Ive no great desire to see us fail miserably again when we get there..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 17 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: Qualification would be great. But if we went out in the same manner as the 2 previous qualifications then the result should be the same. We actually discussed this away in Greece. I think everyone would like to see us play more adventurously. A manager with a different outlook would help. But I think we are still a few players short of being able to do that competitively anyway. We certainly need to find a good striker, a couple of good centre halves (Souttar if he could stay fit would make it one) and a new goalkeeper. We talked about Will Sagnol, Bielsa and even big Ange as the kind of managers we would like. How realistic any of them are on the money the SFA can pay is another matter. I guess Wimmer is the perfect proof of someone we have never heard of being able to do far more with the same players though (albeit still early days) so maybe there is someone out there on our budget..... The writing is on the wall and has been for some time. He's either replaced now or in the not too distant future. It's all getting a bit Kettlewelly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, wellfan said: The writing is on the wall and has been for some time. He's either replaced now or in the not too distant future. It's all getting a bit Kettlewelly. I guess every manager has their shelve life. For me, we are back where we were after the Euros. He had earned the right to look at things and see if he could re-invent the team. He did that by changing to 4-2-3-1 and we ended up putting in some really good performances in Nations League A. Unfortunately, he didnt recognise the warning signals of the 2nd half on Thursday, so we are back to the drawing board....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said: I guess every manager has their shelve life. For me, we are back where we were after the Euros. He had earned the right to look at things and see if he could re-invent the team. He did that by changing to 4-2-3-1 and we ended up putting in some really good performances in Nations League A. Unfortunately, he didnt recognise the warning signals of the 2nd half on Thursday, so we are back to the drawing board....... Since we qualified for the Euros in November 2023. Scotland have won 4 of 15 games, including a 2-0 victory over Gibraltar in a friendly on neutral ground. If my maths is correct? Our win in Greece counted for nothing given the result on Sunday. We have won only one match at home since we beat Georgia in June 2023. Clarke did earn the right to take us to the Euros but the signs of decline were pretty evident long before a ball was kicked in that tournament. And the build up to Germany did not suggest Clarke had any answers. He should have gone as soon as the final whistle was blown against Hungary. The fans who travel all over Europe to support the team have been sold short for a good while. Good fun though those trips may be. You said earlier that it was a myth that Clarke did not give youth a chance. Since 2021 (Gilmour, Patterson, Hickey) I can only think of Doak that has been introduced and given meaningful game time. Sure he may have included Conway, Johnston, Doig, Wilson, Miller in recent squads but how many minutes have those youngsters actually spent on the pitch? Conway did not get one minute on the pitch at the Euros, even when we were minus our first choice striker and desperate for goals. Exactly the same as happened to Turnbull in the Euros hosted by England. Clarke has history. Even more senior in form players were ignored by Clarke. How long did it take for him to select Ferguson, Gauld, Shankland despite how well they were performing at club level. Not all of them performed well I accept, but they were long overdue their chance. Instead Clarke consistently selected players who were not first choice at their clubs. In fairness he did say his strategy was to build a squad of senior players and stick with them. That said, Clarke's record looks magnificent in comparison to that of Gemmill with the U21s. Since being appointed in 2016 he has failed to qualify for a tournament. 5 attempts. 17 wins in 48 competitive games. Most recent friendly. Scotland 1 Iceland 6. And today he threw his players under the bus. How on earth is he still regarded by the powers that be as the man for the job? Prior to the U21s, He had charge of the U17s for 2 years. A job for life?. In my opinion Wellfan is spot on. It is well beyond time for change.....at both levels. Hopefully we can look beyond the UK as a fresh approach is required from top to bottom. I honestly believe we have the best pool of players we have had for decades. But it seems to me that Clarke....and Gemmill....are far more focused on not losing than winning. How is that panning out? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, dennyc said: Since we qualified for the Euros in November 2023. Scotland have won 4 of 15 games, including a 2-0 victory over Gibraltar in a friendly on neutral ground. If my maths is correct? Our win in Greece counted for nothing given the result on Sunday. We have won only one match at home since we beat Georgia in June 2023. Clarke did earn the right to take us to the Euros but the signs of decline were pretty evident long before a ball was kicked in that tournament. And the build up to Germany did not suggest Clarke had any answers. He should have gone as soon as the final whistle was blown against Hungary. The fans who travel all over Europe to support the team have been sold short for a good while. Good fun though those trips may be. You said earlier that it was a myth that Clarke did not give youth a chance. Since 2021 (Gilmour, Patterson, Hickey) I can only think of Doak that has been introduced and given meaningful game time. Sure he may have included Conway, Johnston, Doig, Wilson, Miller in recent squads but how many minutes have those youngsters actually spent on the pitch? Conway did not get one minute on the pitch at the Euros, even when we were minus our first choice striker and desperate for goals. Exactly the same as happened to Turnbull in the Euros hosted by England. Clarke has history. Even more senior in form players were ignored by Clarke. How long did it take for him to select Ferguson, Gauld, Shankland despite how well they were performing at club level. Not all of them performed well I accept, but they were long overdue their chance. Instead Clarke consistently selected players who were not first choice at their clubs. In fairness he did say his strategy was to build a squad of senior players and stick with them. That said, Clarke's record looks magnificent in comparison to that of Gemmill with the U21s. Since being appointed in 2016 he has failed to qualify for a tournament. 5 attempts. 17 wins in 48 competitive games. Most recent friendly. Scotland 1 Iceland 6. And today he threw his players under the bus. How on earth is he still regarded by the powers that be as the man for the job? Prior to the U21s, He had charge of the U17s for 2 years. A job for life?. In my opinion Wellfan is spot on. It is well beyond time for change.....at both levels. Hopefully we can look beyond the UK as a fresh approach is required from top to bottom. I honestly believe we have the best pool of players we have had for decades. But it seems to me that Clarke....and Gemmill....are far more focused on not losing than winning. How is that panning out? I totally understand and accept your argument. What I would say is that the 4/15 stat that is used to beat him with requires some perspective attached given who we played in those games. (and how we performed in the Nations League). Only the N.Ireland home game would be one we should be expected to win. A bit like Kettlewell, Im not calling for Clarke to go, but I do see his deficiencies, so I wouldnt be devestated if he left. He isnt getting sacked before the World Cup though. So onwards we go...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 24 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: He isnt getting sacked before the World Cup though. So onwards we go...... Likely he will not be sacked but I sensed a different Clarke after the game. A bit like Kettlewell after the games at Perth. I would not be surprised if Clarke also walked. I also think the media were a lot less accepting/supportive after the Greece letdown. That might play into Clarke's mindset as well. Fingers crossed the next two friendlies leave us in a better place. With or without Steve Clarke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, dennyc said: I honestly believe we have the best pool of players we have had for decades. But it seems to me that Clarke....and Gemmill....are far more focused on not losing than winning. How is that panning out? Yeh. We have some amount of talent available but his approach is generally pish. Hence my Kettlewelly comment. Perhaps if he focused on the strengths of the players, and not his own stubborn ways, he’d be under less pressure than he currently is. More fool him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistandshout1983 Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 11 hours ago, wellfan said: Gemmill and Clarke only retain their jobs because those who run the SFA are too insular and too stupid to see beyond their own four walls. Gemmill has been linked to the Well job in the past I am sure . Dodged a bullet there me thinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted June 6 Report Share Posted June 6 Delighted for Miller. He played well tonight, showing his positional awareness and passing ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterwood Posted June 6 Report Share Posted June 6 Well done miller. That keeper is shizen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mio Posted June 6 Report Share Posted June 6 Lennon was correct, he is the best player in the team and it took less than the 6 months he originally suggested. i thought he did very well being flung into that sh1tshow. Well done young man….. and get it up you carver. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted June 7 Report Share Posted June 7 Very happy to see young Miller get his first Scotland cap as a Motherwell player. I had hoped that such an accolade might even add a little to his value before his imminent departure for pastures new. Now I am not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spit_It_Out Posted June 7 Report Share Posted June 7 Sorry but Clarke had to go yesterday he has had his time and now we are going backwards again . Get a International appearance clause the contract now Cashback!well done young Lennon Miller. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mio Posted June 7 Report Share Posted June 7 Clarke has humiliated us as a nation in the past 2 euros and I’m not buying the “he got us there” nonsense. It’s never been easier to qualify for this tournament and with the players we have, it should be a shoe in. I doubt it’d happen but Postecoglou would be a great International manager for us, he may be so traumatised by club football just now that he’d fancy it…. Anyway…. Motherwell is more important…. We need a manager 🤦♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted June 7 Report Share Posted June 7 Young Lennon done well when he came on, always looking for the ball and sprayed a few good passes. Hopefully starts on Monday. Also good seeing Max get a start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsince75 Posted June 7 Report Share Posted June 7 I've got a level of sympathy for Clark. The season is finished, for me its a nonsense that friendlies are scheduled in June. His win record over his tenure is as decent as any manager in last xx decades. Although we have a very strong midfield and LWB the rest of the team is lacking. Keeper, centre halves, striker - slim pickings. Last night was unsurprisingly poor and aligned with last 20 games. Im not saying Clark is the forward looking answer , equally I don't see it purely as we need to change the manager. Even back in the 80s when arguably we had some of our best players we had very similar periods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted June 7 Report Share Posted June 7 Clark is a stubborn and arrogant clown. Get him to fuck before he further embarrasses us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted June 7 Report Share Posted June 7 He keeps picking Hanley.....Nuff said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.