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The Stewarding/policing Thread

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Wrong place for this. This seems way over the top punishment for the lad setting of the flare. I know it is dangerous but 5 months prison?

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/motherwell-fan-jailed-for-smokebomb-during-game-1-4019363

Speaking as someone who goes to games with someone who has breathing problems I'm glad he was given five months hope there's some sort of banning order to follow he acted like a dick should be punished

 

Brings nothing but shame to the club now if only the Bois would grow up and stop going to war with the polis and stewards it'd be a better match day experience

 

I've went for a couple of years now I sit watch the game join in with a few songs and never had an ounce off bother with the polis or stewards so why can't they just no be wee dicks they ruin it for everyone

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The Bois are quickly loosing their support as they keep on tempting the police into targeting them. They cry heavy handedness at every chance they get and not once have I seen them actually acknowledged that someone on their own side stepped over the line. I've went from defending them on a regular basis to now thinking they are getting what they are asking for.

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Speaking as someone who goes to games with someone who has breathing problems I'm glad he was given five months hope there's some sort of banning order to follow he acted like a dick should be punished

 

Brings nothing but shame to the club now if only the Bois would grow up and stop going to war with the polis and stewards it'd be a better match day experience

 

I've went for a couple of years now I sit watch the game join in with a few songs and never had an ounce off bother with the polis or stewards so why can't they just no be wee dicks they ruin it for everyone

Wind your neck in, that's a ludicrous statement 'I'm glad he was given five months hope there's some sort of banning order to follow...' These devices are used in everyday life & I see them in use regularly in my line of work. A football stadium is hardly a confined space in relation to the usage of the smoke pellets. And before the holier than thou get uppity - I don't condone their use at the match despite relative harmlessness - no recorded death or injury is there?

 

I'd question the reporting of the incident as I'm of the understanding he was banned for the smoke pellet incident, breaching that ban on January 2nd has induced his custodial sentence. Punishment hardly fits the crime. We now have an 18 year old facing likely army discharge with little future prospects for what amounts to high jinks as the authorities flex muscles whilst allowing far more heinous behaviour to eat our once great country from the inside out. It's folly on a major scale.

 

Onto the uber fan debate... This has been done to death on here - 'and never had an ounce off bother with the polis or stewards so why can't they just no be wee dicks they ruin it for everyone' - You know them personally likes? I know there is plenty of young professionals in that group who are in it only for the love of creating something that's theirs, adding colour & a support to our team that lacked for so long. Whilst it looks like the club have tired of their enthusiasm (they never see the full picture of what can be the average fan's matchday experience despite as much as they would have us believe), the players actively welcome it, embrace it even. This going to war is a misnomer - events are dealt with disproportionately to enable the authorities to cream excess earning to prop poor budgets.

 

As much as you say it 'shames the club', I'd counter that with the Neanderthals who pollute our fanbase.

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Isn't that exactly what the polis and stewards want? Annoy them enough that they react and by reacting they alienate the rest of the fans. Divide and conquer I believe someone once termed it.

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The Bois are quickly loosing their support as they keep on tempting the police into targeting them. They cry heavy handedness at every chance they get and not once have I seen them actually acknowledged that someone on their own side stepped over the line. I've went from defending them on a regular basis to now thinking they are getting what they are asking for.

And another... Why do so many who have little or no appreciation of the subject in question have to comment on it?

 

They do self police, but, realistically can only do so much. This isn't helped by overreactions from those paid to serve and protect on nearly every occasion. Oh! and because they haven't told you directly doesn't mean they've not acknowledged some failings from within.

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And another... Why do so many who have little or no appreciation of the subject in question have to comment on it?

 

They do self police, but, realistically can only do so much. This isn't helped by overreactions from those paid to serve and protect on nearly every occasion. Oh! and because they haven't told you directly doesn't mean they've not acknowledged some failings from within.

I think there's a perception that "they" very vocally blame heavy handed policing, but don't ever vocally distance themselves from any wrongdoing.

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And another... Why do so many who have little or no appreciation of the subject in question have to comment on it?

 

They do self police, but, realistically can only do so much. This isn't helped by overreactions from those paid to serve and protect on nearly every occasion. Oh! and because they haven't told you directly doesn't mean they've not acknowledged some failings from within.

That's why I said "I hadn't seen" them acknowledged it rather than they hadn't entirely. I have stood with the Bois on many occasions home and away, I have also stood near them and watched what's going on and yes there have been occasions where there was heavy handedness, St Mirren away a few seasons ago springs to mind. However there has also been many an occasion I have watched one or two individuals going over the top and goading the Stuards and police into having to get involved.

 

When it comes to flares and smoke bombs, they are banned, end of, use them at your own risk but then don't start crying when you get huckled for it.

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I think there's a perception that "they" very vocally blame heavy handed policing, but don't ever vocally distance themselves from any wrongdoing.

Hence, tapping into a subject that many have little or no understanding... I've seen plenty evidence that they do distance themselves.

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That's why I said "I hadn't seen" them acknowledged it rather than they hadn't entirely. I have stood with the Bois on many occasions home and away, I have also stood near them and watched what's going on and yes there have been occasions where there was heavy handedness, St Mirren away a few seasons ago springs to mind. However there has also been many an occasion I have watched one or two individuals going over the top and goading the Stuards and police into having to get involved.

 

When it comes to flares and smoke bombs, they are banned, end of, use them at your own risk but then don't start crying when you get huckled for it.

Your last statement... think most involved realised this a while back & that the use of smoke pellets is rarer than it used to be. Flares were never commonplace as much as the naysayers would have you believe.

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Wind your neck in, that's a ludicrous statement 'I'm glad he was given five months hope there's some sort of banning order to follow...' These devices are used in everyday life & I see them in use regularly in my line of work. A football stadium is hardly a confined space in relation to the usage of the smoke pellets. And before the holier than thou get uppity - I don't condone their use at the match despite relative harmlessness - no recorded death or injury is there?

 

I'd question the reporting of the incident as I'm of the understanding he was banned for the smoke pellet incident, breaching that ban on January 2nd has induced his custodial sentence. Punishment hardly fits the crime. We now have an 18 year old facing likely army discharge with little future prospects for what amounts to high jinks as the authorities flex muscles whilst allowing far more heinous behaviour to eat our once great country from the inside out. It's folly on a major scale.

 

Onto the uber fan debate... This has been done to death on here - 'and never had an ounce off bother with the polis or stewards so why can't they just no be wee dicks they ruin it for everyone' - You know them personally likes? I know there is plenty of young professionals in that group who are in it only for the love of creating something that's theirs, adding colour & a support to our team that lacked for so long. Whilst it looks like the club have tired of their enthusiasm (they never see the full picture of what can be the average fan's matchday experience despite as much as they would have us believe), the players actively welcome it, embrace it even. This going to war is a misnomer - events are dealt with disproportionately to enable the authorities to cream excess earning to prop poor budgets.

 

As much as you say it 'shames the club', I'd counter that with the Neanderthals who pollute our fanbase.

 

See if all they did was sing songs about Motherwell and leave the sectarian shite out I.e snow is falling u know the rest

 

I'd have more respect for them okay now explain why my friend who has athsma should have to stand near a cloud of smoke to support his club

 

Think about it the pitch invasion against rangers

 

The protest with I repeat WITH Celtic fans at our own park

 

Throwing bins round East Fife

 

The list goes on and on

 

The fact that cause of them we have the record of the third worst behaved support in the country

 

I appreciate the singing and that but keep it in check the Bois have a lot of bridges to rebuild with they're own teams support

 

I'm no angel by the way but I care about this club and the image of its supporters

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See if all they did was sing songs about Motherwell and leave the sectarian shite out I.e snow is falling u know the rest

 

I'd have more respect for them okay now explain why my friend who has athsma should have to stand near a cloud of smoke to support his club

 

Think about it the pitch invasion against rangers

 

The protest with I repeat WITH Celtic fans at our own park

 

Throwing bins round East Fife

 

The list goes on and on

 

The fact that cause of them we have the record of the third worst behaved support in the country

 

I appreciate the singing and that but keep it in check the Bois have a lot of bridges to rebuild with they're own teams support

 

I'm no angel by the way but I care about this club and the image of its supporters

Bore off. There is more holes in your argument than swiss cheese.

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Hence, tapping into a subject that many have little or no understanding... I've seen plenty evidence that they do distance themselves.

But loads of us watch it happen with our own eyes, from very close quarters at times.

 

Yes there is heavy handed policing, but it is usually a reaction to something. Often an overreaction, like Cappielow or St Mirren, but still a reaction.

 

Your defensive style is kind of what people are getting at.

 

The majority of folk want to get behind the Bois, but if they only publicly point the finger at others and any acceptance of responsibility is kept quiet, it starts to look like a group of spoilt neds who think they should be allowed to do what they like without repercussions.

 

It would improve their image greatly if they appeared to accept their part in incidents.

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Motherwell fans, or any football fan in general, proclaiming that they are "glad" that an eighteen year old boy with no previous convictions has been banged up in our overcrowding prisons is extremely worrying and quite frankly ridiculous.

Was his actions irresponsible - yes, was it against the law - yes, but does the punishment fit the crime - not in a million years.

 

Pyrotechnics are banned in the UK at present and probably always will be due to the hysteria from both the media and the governing bodies of our game. Whilst these rules are in place the actions of those involved in setting off such devices are indefensible.

What should be highlighted though is there is MASSIVE differences between a smoke bomb and a flare and there is a massive overreaction in terms of health risks around the use of smoke bombs.

 

I know I am most likely n the minority here but I think clubs should be doing more to accommodate young supporters needs and wants. In recent years there has been a rise in the use of pyrotechnics across the UK and it has been ridiculed by governing bodies, police forces and clubs alike. Kids are getting arrested, charged and their futures being tarnished. Take a look at Norway for example, they have tackled this issue by discussing with supporters the dangers and implications of these devices but also found out the reason for people wanting to bring these devices to matches. The result - pyrotechnics are now legal in Norway in specific areas of the ground, away from those that are at risk but they must be approved by fire departments and clubs ahead of the match. Progressive or common sense?

 

As for the Well Bois "going to war" with the police and stewards. What a lot of nonsense. The Well Bois would much prefer it if the police were as far out of sight as possible. Should the Well Bois take more responsibility in self-policing? Arguably yes. That said, there is a great deal of self policing that goes on week in week out. When you have a supporters group of that age range and dynamic there is always going to be 1 or 2 people who attach themselves and like to push the boundaries and occasion it may reflect back on the group as a whole. This "group" has been around for the best part of 10 years and are not all "wee needs", as Onthefringes mentioned there is a lot of young & old professionals involved who only want to bring colour and noise back to football.

What again is not justified is people in that group getting dawn raided at 6am, losing wages, their jobs, their livelihoods for singing a song at the football or for "allegedly" behaving in an aggressive or threatening manner when at a match. What a lot of people on this forum don't see is what goes on away from the football stadium. The court cases, the waste of public resources and public spending that goes in to quite simply intimidating and antagonising predominately young boys who only want to vocally and visually back their team. The numbers in that End Section of the East Stand are slowly dropping and its because young lads are getting dragged through the legal system, only to be spat out at the other end, more often than not with a not guilty verdict after suffering months of trauma and worry.

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I was a few rows back on the boy when he let the smoke bombs off, and the majority of people around me knew that we had brought smoke bombs and flares to the game, the previous games they had even told us about it and were told to avoid the section if we had a problem with it.

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Wind your neck in, that's a ludicrous statement 'I'm glad he was given five months hope there's some sort of banning order to follow...' These devices are used in everyday life & I see them in use regularly in my line of work. A football stadium is hardly a confined space in relation to the usage of the smoke pellets. And before the holier than thou get uppity - I don't condone their use at the match despite relative harmlessness - no recorded death or injury is there?

 

I'd question the reporting of the incident as I'm of the understanding he was banned for the smoke pellet incident, breaching that ban on January 2nd has induced his custodial sentence. Punishment hardly fits the crime. We now have an 18 year old facing likely army discharge with little future prospects for what amounts to high jinks as the authorities flex muscles whilst allowing far more heinous behaviour to eat our once great country from the inside out. It's folly on a major scale.

 

Onto the uber fan debate... This has been done to death on here - 'and never had an ounce off bother with the polis or stewards so why can't they just no be wee dicks they ruin it for everyone' - You know them personally likes? I know there is plenty of young professionals in that group who are in it only for the love of creating something that's theirs, adding colour & a support to our team that lacked for so long. Whilst it looks like the club have tired of their enthusiasm (they never see the full picture of what can be the average fan's matchday experience despite as much as they would have us believe), the players actively welcome it, embrace it even. This going to war is a misnomer - events are dealt with disproportionately to enable the authorities to cream excess earning to prop poor budgets.

 

As much as you say it 'shames the club', I'd counter that with the Neanderthals who pollute our fanbase.

Smoke bomb to pellet to just high jinks. That's some playing down. And I'd love to know where you got such medical knowledge of breathing problems

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Smoke bomb to pellet to just high jinks. That's some playing down. And I'd love to know where you got such medical knowledge of breathing problems

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Motherwell fans, or any football fan in general, proclaiming that they are "glad" that an eighteen year old boy with no previous convictions has been banged up in our overcrowding prisons is extremely worrying and quite frankly ridiculous.

Was his actions irresponsible - yes, was it against the law - yes, but does the punishment fit the crime - not in a million years.

 

 

What the lad did was wrong but you're right Dee. We frequently read about more serious offences which attract lesser sentences so this seems inconsistent. This is a "Political" issue whether we like it or not. It'll be interesting to monitor the sentences dished out for other kind of offences.

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Smoke bomb to pellet to just high jinks. That's some playing down. And I'd love to know where you got such medical knowledge of breathing problems

How about he broke the law and knew he was doing it (hiding his face) then showed contempt for the court by defying them. Still it's only high jinks

And another...

 

Breathing issues, theory & practise, apparatus required - it's a role I happen to undertake at work.

 

I know fine well he broke the law. The law is an ass, but, the reporting we have seen recently is factually wrong & it stems from our own Motherwell Times chief reporter Mike McQuaid. Breaching the bail order in what was essentially high jinks (not a deliberate act to cause chaos as has been described or suits the agenda of your likes) shouldn't be a custodial sentence. Plenty of recent evidence that kiddie fiddlers receive far less...

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See if all they did was sing songs about Motherwell and leave the sectarian shite out I.e snow is falling u know the rest

 

 

 

 

Sectarian shite? Say whaaat?!

 

Behave.

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It was a smokebomb not a flare I believe?

 

Might seem pedantic, but quite a difference in the level of danger posed. (Zero to almost zero :lol: )

 

I agree it's daft, but the punishment is disproportionate to the crime.

 

I saw on one of the Facebook groups he's appealing it.

 

Good luck to him.

what's he going to appeal, the conviction or the length of sentence? Cause by all accounts looks like the conviction is correct, but length of sentence could be increased if he loses.

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what's he going to appeal, the conviction or the length of sentence? Cause by all accounts looks like the conviction is correct, but length of sentence could be increased if he loses.

No idea?

 

Just saw on one of the Facebook groups the guy saying he wasn't in prison as he was appealing to high court.

 

That's all he said.

 

I'd imagine it's the severity of the sentence being appealed (presuming you can do that?), but that's a guess.

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Will only do 2 1/2 months, or could end up doing only 4 weeks if he gets hdc, but it's the jail at Colchester he'll be more worried about.

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Folk glad a young man got 5 month in the jail for letting off a smoke pellet. :lol: Honestly, have a word with yourselves.

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