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Welldaft Mk1

2018’19 Game 9: St Johnstone (H) Saturday 20th October 2018

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If we are relying on Curtis Main & Ryan Bowman to score us the goals to get us out of this predicament then we are doomed as both are incapable of scoring 15 goals in this league. As it stands, big Curtis couldn’t hit a barn door! I’ve also no idea why we insist on prioritising crosses as he can’t header for toffee. Worst timer of a jump for a stricken that I have ever seen! We are in big big trouble.

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I like Robbo but I'm not sure liking someone means I want him to continue as manager. I don't think anyone has enjoyed a game at Fir Park this season other than Rangers. Going to the game on a Saturday is meant to be what you look forward too but now I find myself just going as I have a season ticket. Did we have a shot on target in 2nd half I can't recall there keeper making a save.

Let's start playing players in there position Tait at RB Cadden at attacking right mid. I don't think Frear is good enough but let's play him as a winger.

Curtis Main needs dropped at the moment I would even consider Sammon before him, he still scored goals for a poor Thistle team last year. I know he isn't popular but can he be any worse than Main. 

If we get nothing from St Mirren and Dundee it's sad to say but he has to go. 

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David Turnbull display yesterday proved that he has the ability at this level Still only a young lad and he tired after about 65 minutes which should have been anticipated by coaching staff and a plan being in place for substitution 

That said the time that this boy should have been getting 65 - 70 minutes of game time was during league cup section games and he was nowhere to be seen [ shite forward planning]

As far as this 3-5-2 shite goes time for it to be binned …… think Robinson is so intrenched and stubborn that he won’t change it 

Time for 4-5-1 formation ……… only 1 up top because Main and Bowman between them barely contribute 1 player

 

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11 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

Actually thought like the Hamilton game we were better team for first hour.  Not saying much as ST J were quite poor. But our failure to score from any chances means we are always likely to live to regret it at some point. 

Robinson admits the subs did not work out but, in his defence Frear and Johnson were put on to try and win the game. It backfired but showed some ambition. Not sticking up for Robinson but what can he do when neither Main nor Cadden can hit the target when clear and in the box. 

For all that St Johnstone stepped it up a notch last 20 minutes and we were poor. I think we deserved a draw but when you give opponents corner after corner something is likely to give. 

Robinson will be given at least the next 2 games but anything less than 4 points should leave his position untenable.  We have broadly the same players who got us to 2 cup finals and some decent youngsters so would like to think we have enough to stay up.  But maybe needs a fresh perspective to deliver a change in fortunes. 

We were without doubt the better team for 60 minutes, we had the majority of the possession and St Johnstone did nothing but as has been the case all season the quality in the final third was awful. It was as you say pretty much a carbon copy of the Hamilton game, St Johnstone are not a patch on the team they have been over the last few years but sadly it still ended up being enough.

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Only two positives for me yesterday in what was a disastrous result.  Good to see Charles Dunne back and David Turnbull get his chance.  The youngster is an upgrade on Bigi as he can defend a bit better.  However he tired badly at around the 65 minute mark.  I wouldn't criticise Robbo for taking off ATS as he was involved in 2 heavy, maybe even foul, challenges in the early exchanges and picked up an injury.

Saints had done their homework well and set out to park their bus on the basis they clearly thought we would lack creativity and be toothless up front.  They were right.  We had perhaps 2 or 3 decent chances up to the 60 minute mark, to their 1 or 2, but we spurned them.  The team was devoid of confidence and guilty of trying to walk the ball through serried ranks of big defenders or launching aimless punts at their huge centre backs.  We were crying out for a few shots at goal. Turnbull at least tried to play on the deck and gave me some encouragement.   Cadden has had worse games but clearly looks burned out as did Allan Campbell who uncharacteristcally lost the bulk of 50/50 challenges to bigger and more energetic opponents.  Saints were no great shakes but defended well against admittedly poor attackers.   Still they worked hard off the ball to deny us any space. 

Up until the 60/65 minute mark we had the bulk of the pressure courtesy mainly of Saints defensive tactics.  Despite that we totally failed to trouble their keeper. For whatever reason we then began to tire a bit and they realised that the game was there to be won and started to push forward.  They looked dangerous and created more than we had in the previous 60 minutes or so.  The goal when it came was late but deserved and in no way unexpected.  Yes, we were unfortunate in that Aldred was off the park for treatment but what a shambles.  Jason Kerr was dumfounded by the space he was afforded to score. 

A bad, bad defeat and I really don't know where we go from here without a change of manager. 

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Dunne seemed to get caught up with Bowman and his man and let Kerr peel off at the back post. That in itself sums up where we are. A player who everyone including myself  thinks is going to stabilise the defence ends up actually costing us the game.

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'Headless chickens ' is my comment after that display. St Johnstone were clearly beatable but whatever 'system' we are supposed to be playing clearly not being implemented. Cadden was in four different positions yesterday  with nobody playing down the right in the second half. Need to be beating these teams who are down beside us or we are doomed. Not sure if a change of manager will make a difference. Players seem deflated which may indicate dressing room problems ,who knows. 

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I don’t even know where to start. 

Utterly abysmal and devoid of entertainment. Only parts I enjoyed involved David Turnbull but his teammates clearly were not on the same footballing wavelength. 

No width at all and seriously I wish people would stop saying we play 3-5-2. 

We don’t we play with wing backs. We are playing a 5-3-2.

 Cadden and Tait where playing as full backs. Right in line with the back three. Wingbacks should be advanced of the back three and they clearly weren’t. This completely negates any width in our team. Cadden to cross a ball has to run 60-70 yards up the pitch first. 

We need to go back to two out wide either side, be it 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1 . However I don’t think any of our strikers are suited to a lone role. 

Also although we don’t concede lots a lot of our problems are coming from the sheer inability of Aldred & Hartleys to find a Well player with headers/passes from the back. The amount of time it either goes out the park or to an opposition player. Thus putting us straight back on the defensive. 

Also let’s be 100% clear and honest, 1 goal in 4 games agains Hamilton, Livingston, St Johnstone and Hearts is utterly disgraceful and completely unacceptable. Not just that but across the 4 games you will be lucky if we have reached double figures on chances and shots on target. 

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4 minutes ago, siebsbarmyarmy said:

I don’t even know where to start. 

Utterly abysmal and devoid of entertainment. Only parts I enjoyed involved David Turnbull but his teammates clearly were not on the same footballing wavelength. 

No width at all and seriously I wish people would stop saying we play 3-5-2. 

We don’t we play with wing backs. We are playing a 5-3-2.

 Cadden and Tait where playing as full backs. Right in line with the back three. Wingbacks should be advanced of the back three and they clearly weren’t. This completely negates any width in our team. Cadden to cross a ball has to run 60-70 yards up the pitch first. 

We need to go back to two out wide either side, be it 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1 . However I don’t think any of our strikers are suited to a lone role. 

Also although we don’t concede lots a lot of our problems are coming from the sheer inability of Aldred & Hartleys to find a Well player with headers/passes from the back. The amount of time it either goes out the park or to an opposition player. Thus putting us straight back on the defensive. 

Also let’s be 100% clear and honest, 1 goal in 4 games agains Hamilton, Livingston, St Johnstone and Hearts is utterly disgraceful and completely unacceptable. Not just that but across the 4 games you will be lucky if we have reached double figures on chances and shots on target. 

Not a lot anyone can argue with here. Loss of Dunne and Kipré and their pace has also meant the back three that our full backs are in line with is about 20-30 yards deeper than it was last season. Increasing the distance our full backs have to cover to get into dangerous areas...

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12 minutes ago, siebsbarmyarmy said:

I don’t even know where to start. 

Utterly abysmal and devoid of entertainment. Only parts I enjoyed involved David Turnbull but his teammates clearly were not on the same footballing wavelength. 

No width at all and seriously I wish people would stop saying we play 3-5-2. 

We don’t we play with wing backs. We are playing a 5-3-2.

 Cadden and Tait where playing as full backs. Right in line with the back three. Wingbacks should be advanced of the back three and they clearly weren’t. This completely negates any width in our team. Cadden to cross a ball has to run 60-70 yards up the pitch first. 

We need to go back to two out wide either side, be it 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1 . However I don’t think any of our strikers are suited to a lone role. 

Also although we don’t concede lots a lot of our problems are coming from the sheer inability of Aldred & Hartleys to find a Well player with headers/passes from the back. The amount of time it either goes out the park or to an opposition player. Thus putting us straight back on the defensive. 

Also let’s be 100% clear and honest, 1 goal in 4 games agains Hamilton, Livingston, St Johnstone and Hearts is utterly disgraceful and completely unacceptable. Not just that but across the 4 games you will be lucky if we have reached double figures on chances and shots on target. 

Cannae argue with any of that, and as Andy P said earlier, we had 2 weeks to work on yesterday and THAT is what we come up with?!?!

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6 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

Not a lot anyone can argue with here. Loss of Dunne and Kipré and their pace has also meant the back three that our full backs are in line with is about 20-30 yards deeper than it was last season. Increasing the distance our full backs have to cover to get into dangerous areas...

Agreed. The depth of our whole team especially at home is causing I believe the complete lack of chances being created.

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6 hours ago, siebsbarmyarmy said:

No width at all and seriously I wish people would stop saying we play 3-5-2. 

We don’t we play with wing backs. We are playing a 5-3-2.

 Cadden and Tait where playing as full backs. Right in line with the back three. Wingbacks should be advanced of the back three and they clearly weren’t. This completely negates any width in our team. Cadden to cross a ball has to run 60-70 yards up the pitch first. 

 

Not sure about your formation comment, maybe true, but your comments about wing backs and width are spot on.  In the first half Cadden got left exposed a few times as did Frear in the second.  At times both had 2 men running at them.  Cadden seemed to want to play in the middle whilst defending and that gave Saints space on the flank.  We do play very narrowly and the "wing backs" have some distance to cover before they can threaten the opposition defence.

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I’ve not been to many games this season, so was watching with fresh eyes, rather than having the negative experiences of some previous performances.

I thought we were a bit unlucky. We were well on top in the 1st half and should’ve taken one of our chances then or early in the 2nd half.

StJohnstone strangled the game in the 2nd half and finished the stronger, but I felt If Rose’s header goes in, or Main buries the chance early in the 2nd rather than blazing over after a great 1st touch, we probably go on and win the game quite comfortably.

I don’t have alarm bells ringing yet. Was good to see Dunne back, Turnbull and Campbell linked up well. Cadden is a concern, it’s about 12 months since he had a good game, yet he starts every week. Tait is one of our most consistent players and he’s shunted around to accommodate Cadden.

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To be fair I thought Cadden had a decent 1st half on Saturday. Agree in general his performances have been below expectations. 

Only one game but like Campbell before him Turnbull showed he has what it takes to play in the 1st team. Be interesting to see what he does with McHugh available next game. 

I have seen many comments and spoken to fans who attend reserve games and there is a growing consensus to give Adam Livingston a chance. We shall see.....

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

I have seen many comments and spoken to fans who attend reserve games and there is a growing consensus to give Adam Livingston a chance. We shall see.....

He’s a left back?

Might have too, Frear and ATS both appear to be made of glass and not sure either are the answer anyway. Frear isn’t a defender, and ATS is still an unknown and we’re at the end of October.

Tait should be at right back, and think Cadden could play an advanced midfield role or right of a Midfield or have a spell on the bench.

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Another disappointing performance and result.

Given that this is predominantly the same team that got us to 2 cup finals playing top flight opponents in every round last season, the drop in performance levels is alarming. 

Our shape is terrible. As others have said 3-5-2 needs to go. We need a system that allows us to play players in their natural positions and allow us to get some of our younger players with legs into the team.

Id go with something like

Carson

Tait Aldred McHugh Dunne

Rose

Cadden Campbell Turnbull Frear

Johnson

I was prepared to give the manager time to turn this around as he has had a lot to contend with due to injuries, suspensions and the sale of Kipre.

However, we are halfway through a run of games we needed to capitalise on to get us out the mire and we have 1 point from 6. The same return in the next 2 games will, Im afraid, give the board a decision to make.

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