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2018/2019 Game 35:Dundee (H) April 27th 3pm Kick off

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I can't see a topic started for this which is an indication of its importance (to us anyway). I can see us going with pretty much the same team as last week and perhaps giving some youngsters a sub appearance. 

Dundee have to win so expect them to be up for it unless they've already given up.

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We might well start with the same team but we have to find a way of upping the effectiveness of the wingers.  Other teams have us sussed as we've seen in recent weeks. Scott to start up front with Sammon or perhaps Main on the bench.  I'd like to see Jamie Semple feature at some point.

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Despite everyone seeing these games as pre-season friendlies, if we somehow lose to Dundee, or even draw, and Livingston beat Accies we'll slide down into 9th place.

Finishing 9th instead of 8th is a drop of £60,000 in winnings, which translates to over a grand a week in potential wages for a player. Worth bearing that in mind when we get to the summer and it's time to try and sign replacements for those who are leaving.

However, if we realise that these games are still worth winning and we beat Dundee, and St Johnstone lose away to St Mirren, who still have it all to play for, then we could jump into 7th, which would see an increase of £60,000. 

Anyone who claims these games are worth fuck all need their heads looking at, seriously. I'm also guessing that these same fans who think it's pre-season time and we should stick in the kids are the same ones who'll be unhappy if we don't sign a decent striker this summer to replace Main, for example.

Finishing 7th instead of 9th is the difference of £120,000, or almost £2,500 per week in potential wages. Any player who's out of contract and wants to stay should be going all-out to finish as high up the table as possible, to win that extra money and enhance the chances of them being offered a new deal.

In short, getting it fucking sorted Robbo, and play the best team available. If that means dropping Scott for Main then so be it. 

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I'm a fitba fan...selling players, earning £60,000 in prize money doesn't excite me. I get that it is highly important to the moneymen at the Club, but it won't take away the feeling of tomorrow being another pointless exercise for me.

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2 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

I'm a fitba fan...selling players, earning £60,000 in prize money doesn't excite me. I get that it is highly important to the moneymen at the Club, but it won't take away the feeling of tomorrow being another pointless exercise for me.

Does bringing in good players in the summer excite you? None of the fans give a fuck about the actual money, it's what the money represents, which is hopefully a bigger budget to buy players.

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Or we could spend that £60k on resurfacing the car park...

 

...as I say, I just struggle to get excited about whether we finish 7th, 8th or 9th. Maybe its just me

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8 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

Or we could spend that £60k on resurfacing the car park...

 

...as I say, I just struggle to get excited about whether we finish 7th, 8th or 9th. Maybe its just me

If we did I'd be asking questions to be honest. We need as much money as we can get to overhaul the side in the summer. We're a small club, an extra £60,000 goes a long way.

As I'm sure we'll find out in the summer and we're trying to sign quality players on what is already a tiny budget.

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I get all that...its just doesn't excite me. I'll be at the match, if we score, I'll cheer, if we concede I'll be annoyed...if we win great, if we lose, hey ho.

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We need to percevere with young Scott up front to give him game time. The jury's out as they say with him.

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I want us to win every game, why would anyone want anything else ?

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6 minutes ago, DEWELL said:

We need to percevere with young Scott up front to give him game time. The jury's out as they say with him.

Isn't that what pre-season is for? If we lose to Dundee and end up finishing 9th this season it'll be a disappointing end to the campaign considering we were chasing top six initially.

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1 minute ago, David said:

Isn't that what pre-season is for? If we lose to Dundee and end up finishing 9th this season it'll be a disappointing end to the campaign considering we were chasing top six initially.

You could just as easily argue that the benefits to Scott and Motherwell in the long run are better served giving him experience in competitive fixtures against two sides that were battling against relegation than a closed door against Newcastle's U21's and games against Barrow and Gateshead.

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Just now, Andy_P said:

You could just as easily argue that the benefits to Scott and Motherwell in the long run are better served giving him experience in competitive fixtures against two sides that were battling against relegation than a closed door against Newcastle's U21's and games against Barrow and Gateshead.

I don't think so really. As I mentioned above, the priority should be winning every game and securing the payment that comes with finishing as high as possible. 

I'd rather have an extra two grand a week to spend on players wages than give Scott a run out against Dundee and Accies. If the lad is good enough, he'll get his chance, just like Hastie, Turnbull, Cadden and Campbell did. 

Cash is king for clubs our size, and I'm not sure that giving Scott and others like Semple a run out is worth losing £120,000 over.

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Dundee are absolutely murder and have lost 8 games in a row.

I’d like to think after tomorrow that’ll be 9.....

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I'm not disagreeing with your point about the finance but playing competitive games surely has to be better for a player's development than pre-season games.

Has it crossed your mind we can do both?  We were a misplaced back-pass away from beating Hamilton last weekend whilst including Scott.  And it wasn't a youth player either who cost us the win. 

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1 minute ago, Andy_P said:

I'm not disagreeing with your point about the finance but playing competitive games surely has to be better for a player's development than pre-season games.

Has it crossed your mind we can do both?  We were a misplaced back-pass away from beating Hamilton last weekend whilst including Scott.  And it wasn't a youth player either who cost us the win. 

If you look back you'll see that I never mentioned it being Scott's fault we didn't beat Accies, I'm just saying that I believe if there's money to be won it's on the manager to pick the right team to win the game. 

If that means picking Scott ahead of Main then fair enough, if that's what he thinks is the right move. If that's the move he'd make were we playing a cup semi-final this weekend against Dundee, then by all means play Scott.

Whichever way we carve it up, we should be beating Dundee this weekend at home. They're virtually done now, while we still have the chance of finishing 7th, which should matter. Otherwise what's the point in actually going to any games after we were confirmed as bottom six? Why bother now?

If we finish 9th due to a mixture of the manager and some players not wanting it as much as the teams around us then that's on them, and come the summer when we have less funds to use it'll be their fault.

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You didn't attribute blame to Scott no, but you were fairly dismissive of talk of the inclusion of a youngster as opposed to a more senior player.

 

For me there is a balance to be found here between focusing entirely maximising prize money to the detriment of developing young players and vice versa.

 

There is no guarantee that senior players will get you the desired result. Especially if several of them are potentially biding their time before moving on. You may gain as much if not more from a youngster eager to impress.

 

I give you last season for example and the final two games of the season against Thistle and Hamilton.

 

Again I don't necessarily see why we cannot finish 7th whilst affording less developed members of the team opportunities at the same time.

 

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

You didn't attribute blame to Scott no, but you were fairly dismissive of talk of the inclusion of a youngster as opposed to a more senior player.

For me there is a balance to be found here between winning games and maximising prize money and developing young players when we have an opportunity against other committed sides.

There is no guarantee that senior players will get you the desired result. Especially if several of them are potentially biding their time before moving on. You may gain as much if not more from a youngster eager to impress.

I give you last season for example and the final two games of the season against Thistle and Hamilton.

Again I don't necessarily see why we cannot finish 7th whilst affording less developed members of the team opportunities at the same time.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk
 

That part in bold is why I say it's up to the manager, who watches the players in training, who sees their body language, how they're interacting with their team mates and so on, to make the right choice.

If the likes of Main doesn't have his head in the game at the moment and is pre-occupied with looking at where he'll be next season then by all means drop him if it's potentially going to affect his game and bring in someone who's looking sharper and more switched on in training.

What I wouldn't like the think is that the manager is viewing these games in the same way as many fans are, nothing more than extended pre-season games to try out the kids and see who looks decent for next season.

As I said, if this weekends game against Dundee was a cup semi-final and the manager still wanted to go ahead and pick the likes of James Scott based on their current form in training and so on then fair enough, I'm 100% behind that.

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Prize money just been officially announced apparently

SPFL announce breakdown of prize money for this season.

 

Premiership

1st £3,350,000

2nd £2,400,000

3rd £2,062,500

4th £1,812,500

5th £1,687,500

6th £1,562,500

7th £1,437,500

8th £1,375,000

9th £1,312,500

10th £1,250,000

11th £1,187,500

12th £1,125,000

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Did they mention the parachute payments? Be interested to see what that's worth these days.

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23 hours ago, David said:

Despite everyone seeing these games as pre-season friendlies, if we somehow lose to Dundee, or even draw, and Livingston beat Accies we'll slide down into 9th place.

Finishing 9th instead of 8th is a drop of £60,000 in winnings, which translates to over a grand a week in potential wages for a player. Worth bearing that in mind when we get to the summer and it's time to try and sign replacements for those who are leaving.

 

As I said last week if we can show one of our fringe young players can compete over the next 5 (now 4 matches) we'll have saved a squad player wage and still have a chance to finish 7th.

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20 hours ago, milo said:

Dundee are absolutely murder and have lost 8 games in a row.

I’d like to think after tomorrow that’ll be 9.....

To put it in perspective in the past two seasons the team relegated had 9 more points than Dundee at the same stage in the season.

Both Ross County  and Inverness had 27 points at game 35.  Dundee have 18.

There's been seasons when teams have finished bottom on 37 points.

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To a degree i’m In two minds regarding player selection today. I don’t think Scott is ready and needs to have a season at Championship level and given that Main should play. I can also see the arguement for giving him game time but I would like to see is finishing as high as possible and I think  for that we need Main. So for me a balancing act  but I still tend to lean towards as strong a team as possible, the club should not be throwing away the chance of another 120k.

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8 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

To a degree i’m In two minds regarding player selection today. I don’t think Scott is ready and needs to have a season at Championship level and given that Main should play. I can also see the arguement for giving him game time but I would like to see is finishing as high as possible and I think  for that we need Main. So for me a balancing act  but I still tend to lean towards as strong a team as possible, the club should not be throwing away the chance of another 120k.

You see it all the time and it's incredible to me.

A young player gets one start and "he's not good enough" while a player with 30 odd league appearances, who really hasn't been good enough over a season, gets the nod.

Maguire, Livingstone and Scott should have got these 5 games and then you analysis it and see where you are.   They might not be good enough but you don't judge it off one match and based on last week I'd have a hard time with anyone telling me we would have been better with Main playing, or we suffered due to having selected Scott.

Let's not be dull, conservative and settle for the well worn path to mediocrity. 

The young guys need to learn the game and here's a chance for them to do it.  Not doing so is development time wasted.

Given the huge rebuild required in the summer it should be  inconceivable for us to squander it as we have in the past.  Where did that get us again?

 

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Team announced. Scott starting Main on bench  and the Sevcovian nowhere to be seen.

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