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People need to wake up to reality it's probably the only market we can afford. That said it gives the usual suspects who think every player we sign is shite an early season boost of trolling and negative posting its their pre season.

What is to stop McMahon, Dickie, and others from taking up the new shares, as will be their right. And then selling them to Barmack? Is there anything to stop Barmack hoovering up shares increasing his holding to a majority. Maybe I'm missing something here.

Technically it was properly, but I'd still suggest that having your shoulder ahead of a defender's foot does not make you offside. That's not why that particular law was created and needs to be updated if we are going to squabble over millimetres. Personally, I'd open the discussion with the forward needing their entire body to be ahead of the defender before they were offside.

Real eye opener for me the last couple of weeks. Never been one for the intricacies of the club at an operating level, although I do pay in to the society. I have to say a massive thank you to posters on here and on p&b who have exposed this deal for what it is. Posts from Steelboy and St Andrew on here, plus Vietnam91 on p&b and MJ (daft laddie) on Twitter have been excellent and I truly feel have had an enormous amount of sway on the direction of this, so well done all of you. We should never underestimate the power of our voices as fans, and especially as a fan owned club - that’s what we would be throwing away here. Fan ownership would be dead, finished, let’s not be in two minds about it. My concern is that the wider fan base might not be getting this message so we have to all do everything we can to get the message out there. Not just those with votes, but all fans, because I worry that some might devalue the Well Society if it blocks this move.

On odd statement by the club. It didn't say anything new or reference any amended proposal, but rather explained a few aspects in more detail. I do accept though some of the financial "facts", such as the effect of freezing season ticket prices. There's always a danger with these matters that we throw the baby out with the bathwater. What strikes me though is the continuing disconnect between the 2 boards. In the reference to EB numbers surely it's up to the Society board to exert its will? Some very good work and excellent posts on P & B but I'm concerned by some posters' attitude towards those who support the Barmack's proposal. Everyone is entitled to their view which I might not agree with, but we shouldn't ridicule them.

Now we are back in pre-season, thought it might be useful to post last season's MOTM tally! As always there are a few results that may (or may not) raise an eyebrow. The complex formula I used was 3 for a win, 2 for second, 1 for third. Georgie Gent was the overall winner, with Spittal and Bair 2nd and 3rd. Mugabi consistently picked up points throughput the season to share 4th with Slattery. Slattery himself might have run away with it, but still gathered an impressive total considering his last appearance was Jan 2nd. Full breakdown as follows: Georgie Gent 31 Blair Spittal 28 Theo Bair 24 Bevis Mugabi 23 Callum Slattery 23 Harry Paton 21 Liam Kelly 20 Lennon Miller 19 Mika Biereth 19 Dan Casey 15 Davor Zdravkovski 15 Stephen O'Donnell 13 Paul McGinn 13 Jack Vale 12 Shane Blaney 6 Brodie Spencer 5 Calum Butcher 4 Ewan Wilson 3 Adam Devine 2 Luca Ross 1 Conor Wilkinson 1 Adam Montgomery 1 Andy Halliday 1 Sam Nicholson 1

Maybe this is the market we're operating in now. I f*****g hope not.

Have I missed something or did Erik Barmack not suggest that he might tweak his proposal?

It's a double very so it must be true. I think McMahon's outlook is summed up by the fact that he is placing all the scrutiny on the club and the Society and basically zero on Barmack. All the focus is on the Society and club's finances but Barmack's finances are apparently to be taken on trust. There's nothing about how much his plans for AI marketing and global branding will cost in terms of initial outlay or what kind of contracts he intends to enter into. There is nothing today about what Barmack is actually bringing other than a pittance of cash which he then controls. As I understand it the primary responsibility of a chairman is to protect shareholder value. We somehow have a chairman who is proposing to annihilate shareholder value in favour of an unimpressive outside investor. And he somehow has no shame about it.

Unless there was a condition that stated the WS MUST retain a minimum of 51% of the shareholding now and in the future regardless of any future jiggerypokery in regards to share issues then its bye bye to fan ownership. All the talk about accounting practices and valuation of the club is a side issue for me and clouds the main point.

The Club Board are taking it for granted that existing Ordinary Shareholders can afford to purchase new Shares or actually want to. To match Barmack and preserve a majority. The Well Society do have funds available to purchase new shares, but in time those funds will dry up. Especially if subscriptions drop off as a result of this investment offer. And they will. Unlike the other 29%, the WS are being forced to buy the shares to retain a majority. Using up funds. What choice will they have? End result, empty coffers for the Society. And what about the other 29% of Shareholders? Who knows for sure that they will take up their new shares. So the Society can buy them as well. More funds gone forever, if there are actually any available I see this whole thing as a not so subtle way for the Club Board to access whatever funds the Society has left, having previously been allowed to help themselves to a substantial sum outwith terms that were originally agreed. Monies gone forever as 'donated' rather than 'loaned'. Recent changes to the WS Board have attempted to address that practice and so protect fans' donations. That has not gone down well. Not for me, and in my opinion anyone who signs up to this can forget all about fan ownership. Eventually that status will just become part of our history.

True on the "clear and obvious". But it doesn't matter whether you measure it with computers or a bit of wet string, there will always be a line behind which you're offside, and it will always be possible to be a few millimetres the wrong side of it.

Just to add to my point, I think a lot of people are being taken in by Erik barmack. He’s spent the last few months drip feeding ‘bleeding heart’ content about the club, his kids in well tops etc. I’m experienced in marketing and copywriting and a lot of what he is saying on different platforms is, I want to use a better metaphor here, the words I would use when I’m polishing a turd. There’s a lot of spin and I hope you can all see through it. also I know Erik lurks on here so Hiya!

They are in a difficult place now but it's as a result of not asserting themselves months ago. Tbh the offer is so shite i don't think there's a chance it would pass if the Well Society board stood up for fan ownership and spoke out about how much the deal rips us off and puts the club at risk. However it's not clear they are going to do that. The situation right now is: 1. The Well Society board believe that the offer under values us by millions of pounds but are presenting the offer anyway. 2. The Well Society board believe that the first two weeks in July is a bad time to hold a vote but have decided to hold a vote then anyway. 3. They appear to be willing to let Barmack change the Head of Terms after they have been presented and are waiting patiently on a club statement that is probably just a delaying tactic before making their own case. 4. We've heard more about Barmack being a great guy than him making a cash grab on the Society amounting to £2.8m by the terms of the deal. They refuse to put forward the real cost. The Well Society board are 100% in charge of this process legally but appear to be allowing McMahon and Barmack to set the agenda. If that continues we will lose the club.

Members shouldn't have to vote every time some twat turns up and says can you please give me £2.8m of your members money.

Doncaster away, Saturday before season starts was mooted on Sunday

Sorry but thats pish, If the club gets a loan, then it's an additional income stream onto the total income for that financial year, no different to say selling a player or signing a sponsorship deal etc, so in this case the total income will have increased by £3 million. As it will no doubt be repaid in installments, those payments will then show as expenditure on subsequent accounts until the loan is repayed. So the club was being accurate in counting the loan in the total income figure against the total expenditure and hence calculate a profit or loss accordingly