star sail

I think it is a cultural thing. Unfortunately we are a nation of drinkers and pie eaters. Can't see it ever changing unfortunately.

Don't know about the current routines regarding training etc but I remember some years back when Billy Davies was the boss watching the team train at Dalziel Park. Mio was assistant at the time and he was taking the warm up. He was getting the team to do press ups and it was like something out of Police Academy. Some had their arses up in the air, others were just bending their arms and no more, some collapsed in a heap after about 10. The only one that could do them right was Mio himself and he was older than the lot of them. Nearly pissed myself laughing it was so funny. The picture would have been complete had John Collins been there showing off his six pack.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Nobody was really that surprised by the result on Saturday and infact I think some were expecting a similar scoreline in the Semi Final. The surprise that day was that Motherwell played well. I commend the fans who stay positive, 'enjoy the rollercoaster', support the team not matter what but I think they are burying their head in the sand a bit at the moment because that 6-0 result on Saturday is reflective of our current form, in fact if anything we are lucky it was not worse. Ironically we have swapped positions with Aberdeen. They were in freefall in November as we seem to be now. The difference is that then they had a manager coming to the end of his time, we have a manager who is just at the start of his. To make matters worse we are hitting the Aberdeen game at the worst possible time. I have been concerned for a while now that they could leap frog us in this game. Thankfully that cannot happen thanks to the postponement of their game at the weekend. A win tomorrow night would provide a huge mental boost but I just can't see it happening.

Aye right then Hugh Keevins. The vast majority of negative comments I read when McCall was appointed was about his piss poor management record, but don't let that stand in the way of a good story. If there is negativity towards ex OF managers is because it is yet another chance for the Scottish Press to have a love in about all things OF (as witnessed before the Semi Final and to a lesser extent before yesterdays game). You have pointed this out yourself in your post. Having said that if bigotry is an abhorence of what both sides of the OF represent with their hatred and intolerance then I am as big a bigot as the next man. That however has nothing to do with SM. Better get yourself ready for your next big story on Tuesday night Hugh, when the Well fans will be spewing their religious intolerance and bigotry at Old Broony. Sure you can wedge a sectarian angle in there somewhere!

The difference between the teams from 3 to 12 is the manager. We have benifitted from this in the last few seasons. This is my thoughts on the managers outwith the OF in order of effectiveness (very subjective I know). Craig Brown- grim to watch at times but a wise old owl that can get his teams grinding out results. Jim Jeffries- experienced, old school but authoritative character Derek McIness-has done a great job at St Johnstone and will go on to bigger things. Terry Butcher- can create a strong team spirit and thrives in adversity Billy Reid- Did really well getting Accies ino the SPL. Working with little resources so can be forgiven for some negative tactics at times. Peter Houston- personally not impressed with this guy and think Dundee Utd are on the brink of going backwards but has so far been able to keep Utd at a reasonable level. Mixu Pattalinean- have been surprised by the impact at Killie but he has them playing good football and getting results. Colin Calderwood- yet to prove himself but has a track record of success and appears to have a plan at Hibs. Danny Lennon- workmanlike manager who I think has done well in really difficult circumstances this season. Has a track record of success albeit in the lower leagues. Stuart McCall- ?. No proven track record, no real sense of plan or vision coming from him (at the moment), has the team playing nicely for small periods but without an end result. Has had the least time to prove himself but would honestly put him 10th out of 10 at the moment. Interestingly with the exception of McInnes the old dogs come out on top. Maybe Jimmy Calderwood would not have been so bad after all. edit: have put Houston too high up but hey ho.

This is a good point and indeed Tommy McLean needed time to get things right, but on that basis, should Malpas have been given more time? FWIW I believe that now McCall is here we should give him ever chance, but I think that there is a difference between that and thinking that today or the weeks leading up to today have been fine. I look at the Hibs situation and think that the time they are giving their man is the right thing to do but Calderwood for my money, displays an assurance and belief that McCall has not shown so far.

I agree with all of this except for the bit about McCall being able to put a long term plan into place. The transfer window showed that he was picking names out of thin air, names of players that he had never seen play. There was no plan. If there is to be a long term view taken surely Craigans days are up and yet I would bet money that if fit, he will play every game from now to the end of the season. I like the long term approach, that is why I was a fan of Jim Gannon but on this occasion there isn't even the smallest whiff of a plan.

I find it funny that the ones putting themselves forward as the rational thinkers are the ones who think this is all ok. At what point does pride in your team kick in when you say a 6-0 defeat at Ibrox is totally unacceptable!! Motherwell are an SPL side. Had Stranraer lost 6-0 today at Ibrox in the Scottish Cup they would be embarrassed. The thing is though they probably would not have lost by 6 because they would have been playing with some pride. I'm all for supporting your team but at what point do you begin to question what is happening. 7-0, 8-0, 9-0?

I have not been to a game since McCall was appointed because I thought it was a poor choice and we would go on a slide. I did not expect it to be as bad as this though. Ibrox is a tough place to go, yes. We have lost some key players, yes. Brown, McGhee, Gannon would not have got us a victory today, yes. All this is true but it in the disorganisation, inability to make anything of the pressure we have and apparant lack of a plan that is the biggest concern. I really hope that I am wrong about McCall and that he has the ability to turn this round. Maybe he genuinely has inherited a situation that would be difficult (impossible) for any manager to handle. A result at Aberdeen on Tuesday would be a start but I fear the worst up there too. Somebody disagree with me and tell me all will be ok, please!! Thank goodness for Hamilton Accies and St Mirren.

I had a really interesting chat with a friend of mine this eve who travels all round Europe taking in football matches. He uses it as a reason to travel round Europe. He is Scottish but does not have an affiliation to a Scottish side, has no axe to grind and no agenda. He was commenting on the fact that in other European countries it is abundantly clear that the matchday experience is moulded round the needs of the football fan and that as a fan you then feel part of an occasion. He used Germany as the perfect example. In contrast he said that in Scotland it is clear that the experience of the fan has been given little or no consideration and that the difference is so pronounced that he his shocked every time he goes to a game in Scotland. Policing, Stewarding, Pricing, Facilities, transportation the whole shooting match. When you see a Scottish Cup game scheduled for on 1.15pm in Dundee on a Sunday afternoon you can see where he is coming from. The fan is at the bottom of the food chain in this country. Not having a go at Motherwell or Dundee Utd because in this instance the pricing is spot on, it is the scheduling which I guess would have been outwith the clubs control.

Sums up the keyboard football philosophers perfectly. The ones I love the most though are the cool dudes that post smart arsed comments aimed at winding up all those geeky keyboard thumpers who they want to bite, then in their cool dude circles congratulate themselves when somebody does bite with abstract little slap on the back comments to each other, not realising that they themselves are part of the very same sad b$*t$*d culture they aim to mock. Love those guys!

Really? Is this an unspoken truth of Scottish Football or was a survey carried out with the conclusion that Motherwell fans are the least supportive? Could it maybe be the case that you have made this up to make a point? Let's take just one example of the worst support in Scottish Football- last week at Hampden. The supporters of the winning team were bailing out with 15 mins to go. The supporters of the losing team were still singing at the end giving their team a great send off. Which set of fans were the Motherwell support? I don't know how Jeffers is going to work out but his scoring record (and we are signing a striker) is rotten. If the Motherwell support did not query such a signing some on here would be moaning about how Motherwell fans will support any old donkey (Casagolda anyone). Fans of any club will react in similar ways, what pisses me off is the fans that preach about how fellow fans should/should not react.

I have been concerned for a while now about Aberdeen passing us in the league by beating us at Pittodrie. A win tomorrow ensures that does not happen.

But the point is, that to take the team forward, Gannon had to drop Craigan. What Brown did was allow the status quo to stabilise the team. For all the plaudits Brown got, he did not progress the team or the club in any way. Gannon wanted to take the team forward and to do that he needed a defender who could pass a ball.

I was (am) very much a fan of Jim Gannon but my views are not entrenched which is why I am really interested in what happens at Port Vale. I think that the stories of unrest were almost inevitable because of the strength of his views on how the game should be played and his determination not to waver from that path. That is bound to upset a team that is not playing his way or indeed a player that does not play his way (Craigan being an example), particularly when he appears to be ruthless in his methods. There is bound to be a meeting of minds, the question is, as the board of the club, do you try and ride out the rocky transition or panic and bale out? If Port Vale panic and sack Gannon then debates like these are going to rumble on, however if they stick by him and back him, even at the expense of disgruntled players, I think we are going to get an answer as to whether Gannon is the next big thing or if he is indeed a hopeless mavarick. If Port Vale do stick by him and they continue to fall then I would change my current view, however if they sack him I will tend to maintain the view that like Motherwell, Port Vale did not have the balls for the revolution. I am surprised by the comments of 'I'm bored with this, lets move on' because if nothing else as fans of football Gannon (love or hate him) is a very interesting story to follow.

Well really need to start utilising some religious conflicts in the world to boost our fan base. Israel/Pallestine or something like that. Does not matter which side we take so long as it generates a generation of fans fuelled by religious hatred. Swell those numbers We could have tapped into the Protestant/ Catholic market but I think that has been cornered already. Alternatively we can be really thankful for our small support and be grateful that we go to the football for footballs sake and put a big smile on our faces because it is not fuelled by hatred and intolerance. I'll take a 2-1 defeat any day to fall on the Well side of the supporting spectrum.

Got that very same feeling in the 91 semi final with Colin O Neils now infamous goal. Everybody seemed to freeze for what seemed like 2 or 3 seconds before going completely balistic!! Those kind of goals are always the best.

Again that is not painting the full picture. I don't have the stats but from memory many of those 12 games were draws, Motherwell were aiming to play football from the back, some of the young players were playing their best spells in Well jerseys to date and one of those draws was against Rangers when but for a late penatly miss, the team would have won. The Gannon argument has been flogged to death but when commenting on any of our previous managers it would be nice if people did not cherry pick statistics. Actually, now I think about it, what were the three, I remember Llannelli, Flamurtari, Kilmarnock, Dundee Utd and ICT. Is that 3 games stat even right?

That is odd because towards the end of the first half (I think, maybe beginning of the second) it read 51%-49% in favour of Motherwell. If anything after that Motherwell came into the game more.

Thought the ref was as fair and even as I have seen for a long time against Rangers. The penalty decision would have been a soft one and he could have made much more of the Hutchison lunge particularly at a time when Well were putting Rangers under a lot of pressure. Good performance by the ref but then again, with the exception of McCulloch the players made it fairly straight forward for him today.

Between Jennings and Lasley for me but because of the goal gave it to Lasley, just. That Jennings got MOTM on the losing team shows the nature of the game.

Really pleased this evening. For once I think that the performance today was almost more important than the result in terms of moral for the rest of the season. Commitment, effort and also more than a fleeting display of ability. Lasley and Jennings were superb today. F**k the result. That mob should beat us off the park every time they play us. Only negative for me it's to say that for a former Well player and Motherwell man Lee McCulloch is one dislikeable character. Replaces a long line of Rangers cluggers that you can really hate.

Not going to quote your post from the last page Stu because it is kinda lengthy but even though it was me you were arguing against, well said! I think the point about leaving the Semi Final thread positive is a good one. I am one of the negative vibe merchants at the moment but like others it does not stop me from having butterflies in my stomach this morning. I can't get to the point of thinking we could sneak it (not yet anyway) but I just want the team to give a good account of themselves and at least let this mob know they are in a game. The thing is as well, you just never know. C'mon the Well!!

Cluching at straws with this. The omission of Gannon's statistics from the list above suggests you are spinning the figures a bit ( I know that is not what you were trying to do). I think it is good to see someone trying to rally the troops in this way but even if the figures were good (which they are not) the standard of performance at these times would have to be concidered. Under McGhee, Gannon and Brown you could see their influence on the park. But for the Dundee game, the standard under McCall has been terrible and there is no real sign of this changing. We can only hope that a performance tomorrow might spark the team back into life.

That suggests to me that you think only the positive and enthusiastic should post on a Motherwell fans forum, however there is a bigger picture here that needs comment. I can't speak for Melvin Bragg but I would guess like me he is a guy who has invested alot of time, money and emotion over the years in supporting Motherwell and is actually hurting a little just now at the way in which the club appears to be spiralling down the pan. Should we not be asking why supporters who have Motherwell at heart are being turned away just now or is that not worthy of comment on a Motherwell Fans Forum? For me personally the appointment of the manager was the final straw but I could write a long list of other reasons why I just could not gather the enthusiasm to go to Hampden tomorrow. I hope things change and I get the groove back. I would love to see us win tomorrow and yes I would be one of the so called 'glory hunters' who may well decide to go to the Final if we did but I am not going to let some prozac popping pup tell me that I am not a real fan for my choices or that I have no right to comment on these boards.