Busta Nut Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 I do not have a spare £300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Ach ye've wasted it now by going back to sensible talk. Shame on you. There has to be a few sensible posts in between all the shamless condemnation of the Chief exec by the Lip, just trying to restore some balance to the force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 The proposed scheme is not Leeann dempsters idea its a board decision, and i dont think that they will be rushing into any half baked ideas with the finances of the club. The one member 1 vote at whatever level of financial commitment you choose is a great idea, it will generate income but i dont think that the board are naive enought to think that it will solve all their financial worries. There will still be major inputs from sponsors, corporate clients, merchandising, TV money, advertising, gate receipts and ticket sales this is where the bulk of the funding will come from. The community ownership will give the ordinary fans a voice in return for a financial commitment which will be a bonus to the club in addition to their existing income streams, so how can that be a bad thing. If it works we may have a greater say in how the club is run, not in the normal day to day stuff or major decisions but in the decisions that directly affect the fans, ie ticket costs, club catering, stewarding, etc I'm well aware of where the idea comes it's been mooted for quite some time but we still have no hard and fast ideas of the practicalities of the concept and how it is going to work. Ms dempsters interview in the Herald was appalling it gave nothing new away except for hinting at the lower level being £300 and there being maybe one or two more levels. It helped no-one and yet we had guys on here claiming it was a brilliant idea. While others may jump upon the concept and herald it as a step forward for the club, I would much rather wait for the full details of the proposal before making my mind up. From what has been said and from what I know of these things I'm extremely wary, . The idea of one vote per person regardless of financial outlay strikes me as being more than slightly unfair to those who may wish to invest more than the initial, let's say £300. Would larger investors not be put off by that? I mean why would I invest say £10k, when I can obtain the same influence for £300. If it works, and believe me, that is one big IF. The big decisions that directly affect the fans, particularly ticket costs, also directly affect the club but in a different way, so when asked for your vote are you voting as a fan, or for the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazles ring piece Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 In all honesty, I'm worried about this scheme, even more so in the current financial climate. We don't have a big enough fan base, never mind fan base numbers with a vast expendable income. The main problem is how the present board generate any worthwhile financial income, especially when they don't possess the financial assets personally. Interesting times ahead. This is a huge undertaking in the hands of the board and there is absolutely no room for error. It really is this serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 The idea of one vote per person regardless of financial outlay strikes me as being more than slightly unfair to those who may wish to invest more than the initial, let's say £300. Would larger investors not be put off by that? I mean why would I invest say £10k, when I can obtain the same influence for £300. The story already said there'd be more extras for those that put in more cash to the club but we do need to wait and get all the details before we can make a decision. In all honesty, I'm worried about this scheme, even more so in the current financial climate. We don't have a big enough fan base, never mind fan base numbers with a vast expendable income. The main problem is how the present board generate any worthwhile financial income, especially when they don't possess the financial assets personally. Interesting times ahead. This is a huge undertaking in the hands of the board and there is absolutely no room for error. It really is this serious. This is the part that is worrying me as well. At present I am about to go into my 3rd year without a season ticket as I find myself out of work again. If I can't afford the season ticket, I won't even to take it on instalments in case I can't afford it one month, then I'm not going to be able to put cash into this scheme either. A couple of months down the line who's to say what happens. I could\hope to be back in work before the season starts and I may have the cash then but surely it's this time of the year the club needs to drag in every penny it can. If it's going to rely on the fans to get it through this time of the year we could see the club having to go down the Stirling route of getting trialists to pay, just to keep the club afloat. Having said that I'm glad we're not going down the reported route that Rangers are. i.e. Using the season ticket sales for the next few years to get a loan to bring in players and complete the buyout. A'la Leeds and Newcastle. Look what happened to Leeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 If it works we may have a greater say in how the club is run, not in the normal day to day stuff or major decisions but in the decisions that directly affect the fans, ie ticket costs, club catering, stewarding, etc Fine in theory, I'm all for more fan involvement but we have to be very careful. I'd prefer to appoint a Board and Chief Executive and let them get on with the business of running the club. If you ask our support about catering or stewarding or ticket costs you might end up with 3,000 different views all of which would be correct. Some would threaten to stop attending FP because the cost of Mars bars in kiosks was being increased by 4p a shot instead of 2p a shot. Thats the reality of it. Also most fans don't know the full facts behind stewarding, catering or whatever and would not be in a position to make an informed decision. Fan involvement is fine up to a point but we should be careful what we wish for. I hope too that any new scheme takes into account current shareholders' investments. Most will already have invested hundreds and perhaps thousands of pounds? Will we be given our money back and asked to pay £300 (or whatever) as a new member? Will the holding be automatically transferred and if so what benefit will shareholders receive as opposed to ordinary £300 investors? All legitimate questions and I know the club is researching all these details. All that said, it would be great if the ordinary fans did have more of a say in MFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 A lot of questions to be answered obviously but for me it's a far more agreeable route than simply handing control over to another individual who has the wherewithal to buy up a controlling interest. For me the main benefit of this is to stop someone doing a JB initially, throwing money at it recklessly and putting the clubs future in some doubt. All the finer detail can be worked out but if it gives us the safety net of protecting our future it gets a thumbs up from me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 A lot of questions to be answered obviously but for me it's a far more agreeable route than simply handing control over to another individual who has the wherewithal to buy up a controlling interest. For me the main benefit of this is to stop someone doing a JB initially, throwing money at it recklessly and putting the clubs future in some doubt. All the finer detail can be worked out but if it gives us the safety net of protecting our future it gets a thumbs up from me. +1 The millionaire benefactor approach does not fill me with confidence, they get bored, lose their cash, die etc and the club is left in a precarious situation, what happened to Gretna and nearly to us should serve as a warning. Football needs to be run and financed in a sustainable manner, ie clubs living within their means, so hopefully this scheme will ensure that motherwell are financially sound for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 +1 The millionaire benefactor approach does not fill me with confidence, they get bored, lose their cash, die etc and the club is left in a precarious situation, what happened to Gretna and nearly to us should serve as a warning. Football needs to be run and financed in a sustainable manner, ie clubs living within their means, so hopefully this scheme will ensure that motherwell are financially sound for the future. I agree with this as well, but it will be fucked if there arent enough 'well fans (which I dont think there will be) willing to take up the 'offer'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I agree with this as well, but it will be fucked if there arent enough 'well fans (which I dont think there will be) willing to take up the 'offer'. But we won't be fucked, we'll still be a small club but one with a different structure. I don't think this was ever planned a major fundraiser so this alone wouldn't ensure a financially stable future but it will hopefully provide a platform for accountability and avoid things like the Cooper Stand debacle for one example. Living within our means we shouldn't be looking for handouts from 'owners' or share issues, there will be times when unexpected costs force the club to look for short term assistance and if my reading of this is correct that's what the money raised here is planned for. If there is even a sniff of my money being used to fund a players wage then I'm keeping it in my own bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I agree with this as well, but it will be fucked if there arent enough 'well fans (which I dont think there will be) willing to take up the 'offer'. I doubt it. I'd expect there to be scope in the plan for adjusting the ratio between average punters, wealthy punters and businesses to make up any significant shortfall. And I'm sure the club are already well aware of roughly how many, or few 'Well fans are likely to be able to afford to buy in anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 didn't no one else read the boards before the cup final? i'm fully expecting 10,000 people to sign up for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'm not convinced about this either. He cited the Barcelona model, however that is a club with global support and 100000+ through the gates every week. Also if you look deeper at their finances, they are in severe debt. Not sure how they are going to work it that each person who invests has a vote in decisions. They will need to set up a sort of internet voting thing so that decisions can be made quickly. Nothing stalls an organisation more than indecisevness or delays in making decisions. That can have disasterous consequences. Will be interesting to see the finer details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 But we won't be fucked, we'll still be a small club but one with a different structure. I don't think this was ever planned a major fundraiser so this alone wouldn't ensure a financially stable future but it will hopefully provide a platform for accountability and avoid things like the Cooper Stand debacle for one example. Living within our means we shouldn't be looking for handouts from 'owners' or share issues, there will be times when unexpected costs force the club to look for short term assistance and if my reading of this is correct that's what the money raised here is planned for. If there is even a sniff of my money being used to fund a players wage then I'm keeping it in my own bank. I never said we'd be fucked. What I meant to say was, if there arent enough takers for this Community Ownership then the idea itself will be fucked. Unless I'm totally missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'd assume that every year you would vote for a board to run the club on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I never said we'd be fucked. What I meant to say was, if there arent enough takers for this Community Ownership then the idea itself will be fucked. Unless I'm totally missing something? If I've got this right, any money raised in year 1 will be set aside for emergency use only ie paying wages if funds get low due to 3 or 4 call offs in a row. Anything left over will then be added to whatever is raised in year 2 for the same purposes and this continues year on year with the hope that we accumulate cash over time. Could be totally wrong on this and no doubt others will put me right (again) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 still far too much detail not been released or possibly even decided on? £300 seems a reasonable (albeit still a fair bit of cash) amount to become a part of the club I just don't see how at that investment, it pays the club other than in short term income would seem much more appropriate if thats only the initial investment and then ongoing membership is set with an annual/quarterly/monthly D/D of approx £30-£60 p/a which is only to maintain your membership/share rights. kind off like golf club fees for comparison, the key being become a member match entry etc all remain a totally separate entity in this case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Better have a Members only dance in May Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 £300 seems a reasonable (albeit still a fair bit of cash) amount to become a part of the club I just don't see how at that investment, it pays the club other than in short term income the idea is that whatever is raised through the various levels of membership will serve as a cash reserve that we can use like an overdraft if we incur unseen costs or have cashflow problems. half a million quid or so rainy day money seems pretty handy to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Yeah 1/2 Million quid is handy amount if that's what raised and if it is used, as you are speculating and any excess invested wisely that's all well and good, my money is sitting waiting, once things are clearer but the grey areas still overshadow whats really happening and from a pure business model, taking in a one off payment from members and then committing to an eternity of members rights with no further income is a loss leader over time, hence nearly all successful 'members clubs' have further subscriptions to maintain the 'club' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaveli Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Maybe I am saying something thats already been said but I could see this attracting a lot of fans as people would see it as something different from everyother team in the SPL. "I support Motherwell I get a say" sort of thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadywellToi Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 If we get one person thinking that I'll be surprised. The entry level membership uptake will come from a portion of the 3,000 core support MFC has, who have either have the cash, inclination or see benefit in the added extras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaveli Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 it was just a thought, would be good if that did happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Yeah 1/2 Million quid is handy amount if that's what raised and if it is used, as you are speculating and any excess invested wisely that's all well and good, my money is sitting waiting, once things are clearer but the grey areas still overshadow whats really happening and from a pure business model, taking in a one off payment from members and then committing to an eternity of members rights with no further income is a loss leader over time, hence nearly all successful 'members clubs' have further subscriptions to maintain the 'club' If the figure quoted of £300 for the basic level of membership is accurate then only 1,000 people taking up the offer is 300 K raised add to that the Business and corporate investors and the 500 K or even more figure is achievable. Even for a small club like ours i dont think its an unrealistic target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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