underboyleheating Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Despite being crowned the best of the rest over the last two years domestic silverware eluded us again. McCall is without doubt one of our greatest ever managers and I sincerely hope that this will be the season we see claret and amber ribbons hanging from a domestic trophy. I personally would prefer a cup win over second spot in the league (both would be nice, although probably unrealistic). We are never going to win the league and I think our main focus should be on delivering silverware to the Fir Park trophy room. With that in mind we need to avoid a repeat of last years Albion Rovers performance and treat every game as if our life depended on it. Of the two the Scottish Cup is the one that every manager wants to get their hands on, however, I wouldn't say no to some Diddy Cup success as it has been so long since we last won it. If we stay focused a top six finish and a cup win are well within our squads capabilities. As big John said in a recent interview... "With the quality of players we have here and the form shown over the last four or five years, you'd think we'd get a bit further in the cups or even go all the way and win a trophy. "Hopefully this season we can go a little bit further. That's what everybody at the club wants." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Still being in the Scottish Cup come the start of 2015 would be my initial hope and aspiration for next season. That in itself would be progress on the past two seasons. Needless to say that while we've done well in the league and the run of the mill games under McCall, our cup record in the same time has been absolutely disgraceful with some really shocking performances and exits and whatever we've done in the league that dire record casts a major shadow over the past few seasons. As a club we really need a good cup run this season, if nothing else for financial reasons as our pathetic efforts have hampered us in recent years in that department. Also as the domestic cups are our only chance of success then I am desperate to see us giving it a serious crack and would love nothing more than to see us lift silverware again as it would trump any high league finish in my opinion. I couldn't care less about Europe as those games are nothing more than glorified friendlies to us, the domestic cups are what brings clubs like us success and glory and hopefully 2014/2015 will be the season when we finally capture silverware. I'd even trade a top six finish for it. McCall and the players owe us at the very least a good run in one of the cups this coming season and McCall has acknowledged that our recent efforts have fallen way short, so now its time for him and the team to step up and deliver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Still being in the Scottish Cup come the start of 2015 would be my initial hope and aspiration for next season. That in itself would be progress on the past two seasons. Needless to say that while we've done well in the league and the run of the mill games under McCall, our cup record in the same time has been absolutely disgraceful with some really shocking performances and exits and whatever we've done in the league that dire record casts a major shadow over the past few seasons. As a club we really need a good cup run this season, if nothing else for financial reasons as our pathetic efforts have hampered us in recent years in that department. Also as the domestic cups are our only chance of success then I am desperate to see us giving it a serious crack and would love nothing more than to see us lift silverware again as it would trump any high league finish in my opinion. I couldn't care less about Europe as those games are nothing more than glorified friendlies to us, the domestic cups are what brings clubs like us success and glory and hopefully 2014/2015 will be the season when we finally capture silverware. I'd even trade a top six finish for it. McCall and the players owe us at the very least a good run in one of the cups this coming season and McCall has acknowledged that our recent efforts have fallen way short, so now its time for him and the team to step up and deliver. Although I agree with your sentiment, unfortunately, given our tight budget a bottom six finish would be a critical blow to our finances. I think only a Scottish Cup win would cover our losses and going into a final knowing if you are going to lose financially big time on the result of one game would see bottles crashing all over the place. To be fair I would give my left arm for a cup win of any sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Still being in the Scottish Cup come the start of 2015 would be my initial hope and aspiration for next season. That in itself would be progress on the past two seasons. Yep. Needless to say that while we've done well in the league and the run of the mill games under McCall, our cup record in the same time has been absolutely disgraceful with some really shocking performances and exits and whatever we've done in the league that dire record casts a major shadow over the past few seasons. Nope. The Albion Rovers result certainly was but there seems to be growing hyperbole when it comes to our Cup exploits. Reaching a Scottish Cup Final and losing to a fellow SPL side, one match of which was a Quarter Final is hardly absolutely disgraceful. And yes you could make the point about the Rangers cup game but again we've lost to SPL teams in both Hibs and Aberdeen and in both games have had goals disallowed that could have changed the course of those games completely. Again hardly absolutely disgraceful as you put it, As a club we really need a good cup run this season, if nothing else for financial reasons as our pathetic efforts have hampered us in recent years in that department. Also as the domestic cups are our only chance of success then I am desperate to see us giving it a serious crack and would love nothing more than to see us lift silverware again as it would trump any high league finish in my opinion. I couldn't care less about Europe as those games are nothing more than glorified friendlies to us, the domestic cups are what brings clubs like us success and glory and hopefully 2014/2015 will be the season when we finally capture silverware. I'd even trade a top six finish for it. Certainly agree we need good Cup runs given the financial element and having done the best of the rest thing consistently I might be persuaded that a day in the sun at Hampden trump another second place finish. As long we finish above Aberdeen mind.... Disagree completely about Europe though but that's an argument for another thread. McCall and the players owe us at the very least a good run in one of the cups this coming season and McCall has acknowledged that our recent efforts have fallen way short, so now its time for him and the team to step up and deliver. McCall and the players have a personal pride and know fine well they could have done better but to suggest they owe us anything in just nonsense. They owe us fuck all particularly when there are supporters who are ultra quick to engage in histrionics and toys out the pram like behaviour if things don't go our way. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 I hate that: Aberdeen St Johnstone St mirren Kilmarnock Dundee Utd Hearts Hibs Livingston Raith Rovers and Rangers, kind of. Have all held aloft cups more recently than us. I'm 30 years old FFS and haven't seen us lift one (moved to Lanarkshire in 91 - August, raging!) And the bottom 5 clubs in that list are First Division! But have all lifted trophies. We need to sort that, its actually going to become an issue soon and a source of embarassment for us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Nope. The Albion Rovers result certainly was but there seems to be growing hyperbole when it comes to our Cup exploits. Reaching a Scottish Cup Final and losing to a fellow SPL side, one match of which was a Quarter Final is hardly absolutely disgraceful. And yes you could make the point about the Rangers cup game but again we've lost to SPL teams in both Hibs and Aberdeen and in both games have had goals disallowed that could have changed the course of those games completely. Again hardly absolutely disgraceful as you put it. McCall and the players have a personal pride and know fine well they could have done better but to suggest they owe us anything in just nonsense. They owe us fuck all particularly when there are supporters who are ultra quick to engage in histrionics and toys out the pram like behaviour if things don't go our way. It might not be disgraceful to lose to another SPL side in a cup match per se but the manner in which we lost the two Scottish Cup games against Aberdeen was disgraceful in my view. At the time of both games we had a better team than they did and were easily outperforming them in the league where they couldn't buy a win against us. Yet in both those games we were second best in attitude, will to win and they seemed to want it more and therefore we deserved to lose. Our performances in those matches WAS disgraceful in my opinion. Aberdeen had a better side in last season's League Cup match but they were down to ten men for 77 minutes and we didn't trouble them and ended up getting turned over 2-0. Again, given what was at stake and the man advantage we had it was a shocking performance and result. The debacles against Sevco and Albion Rovers speak for themselves. In all of those games our approach, attitude, preparation, desire and tactics were all wrong and we deserved to lose every single one of them, and all in Cup games which the club are never done telling us that we need to do well in to fund the running costs and budget etc and in which the support is largely desperate to see us progress from. So yes, McCall and the players DO owe the support and themselves a good Cup run this season in my opinion and given the manner of our recent string of cup exits then I do not think that that is an unreasonable thing to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted July 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 I hate that: Aberdeen St Johnstone St mirren Kilmarnock Dundee Utd Hearts Livingston Raith Rovers and Rangers, kind of. Have all held aloft cups more recently than us. Yes in an era where the domestic cups have been won by a number of clubs out with the old firm it is disappointing that we have only come close twice since 1991, and have ultimately fell short when it really mattered. You can also add Hibs to your list as they won the League Cup in 2007 when they beat Kilmarnock in the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaveli Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Staying in the Cups whilst qualifying for the group stages would work out well. Come January we could then afford to bring in a couple of bodies to boost our cup run(s) in the second half of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 The fact that so many different teams have won cups in recent times shows how much of a lottery it can be and how much a bit of luck is required to lift one. We have done well in the league because our team has been good enough to bounce back from a bad performance here or a bad decision there. Overall, however, it's our consistency that kept us the best of rest. With so many teams capable of beating us and other SPFL teams on their day, I think it's actually more difficult to win a cup now than it was back in the 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted July 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Staying in the Cups whilst qualifying for the group stages would work out well. This would be a big ask and I suspect something will need to suffer in order for us to lift a domestic trophy. I personally don’t think we will reach the group stages of the Europa Cup. In my opinion a top six league finish combined with a domestic trophy will be the very best we can hope for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 A cup winning team depends on a number of factors not just ability. Luck is required as is plenty of character and the correct tactics. Our cup winning side of 1991 is not the best Well team that I've seen. I'd rate our side of 1976 higher ability wise but for some reason it didn't win any silverware. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted July 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 The fact that so many different teams have won cups in recent times shows how much of a lottery it can be It can be a lottery, however, some sides appear to have a knack of appearing more than most. Since 2000... Hibernian have featured in 5 domestic finals. (winning 1) Dundee United have featured in 4 domestic finals. (winning 1) Hearts have featured in 4 domestic finals. (winning 2) Kilmarnock have featured in 3 domestic finals. (winning 1) Dunfermline have featured in 3 domestic finals. (winning 0) In contrast we have featured in 2 domestic finals. (winning 0) However, admittedly Hibernian, Hearts and Dundee United all have bigger budgets than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 A cup winning team depends on a number of factors not just ability. Luck is required as is plenty of character and the correct tactics. Our cup winning side of 1991 is not the best Well team that I've seen. I'd rate our side of 1976 higher ability wise bit for some reason it didn't win nay silverware. Well said and I agree with all you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxywell Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 I don't think you can ever really plan for cup success or judge a season on how you did in the cups.Fact is we could get Celtic away in both cups and out we go.The luck of the draw comes into it as well as what sort of form us or whoever we're playing are in.The thing that annoyed me most about Albion and some of our recent exits is the lack of desire, the cups are a chance to actually bring a bit of excitement to the season but for some reason we just haven't looked up for it.That's all you can look for really is for the players to at least put the effort in and play it as if it's a big game like we did against Utd and St Johnstone when we got to the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wishielad Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Agree with those who point out the element of luck - of the draw, of refereeing decisions, of avoiding injuries to key players - in a series of one-off matches on road to winning cups. Our run of best of the rest in last three seasons is because we have achieved a degree of consistency over a programme of 38 games. I think criticism of our cup performances under SMcC is a little harsh: in 2010-11 season, we reached semi-final of League Cup and final of Scottish Cup and still made top 6. The teams mentioned as performing better than us in the cups haven't achieved anything like we have in league since SMcC joined us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
something else Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Everybody wants to win a cup and no one wants a day in the sun at Hampden more than me but for me the last 3 seasons have been superb and I wouldn't swap that for one cup win. If you gave me the choice of winning a cup this season coming but having 3 very poor league seasons or not winning a cup and finishing in the top 3 for the next 3 seasons I'd pick the league success. Yes st mirren, killie and st johnstone fans had a great day, but how many great days have we had recently. Watching motherwell in the last few years has been a joy. Shite teams can win a cup but it takes a good team to consistently finish 2nd and 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decorator Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Everybody wants to win a cup and no one wants a day in the sun at Hampden more than me but for me the last 3 seasons have been superb and I wouldn't swap that for one cup win. If you gave me the choice of winning a cup this season coming but having 3 very poor league seasons or not winning a cup and finishing in the top 3 for the next 3 seasons I'd pick the league success. Yes st mirren, killie and st johnstone fans had a great day, but how many great days have we had recently. Watching motherwell in the last few years has been a joy. Shite teams can win a cup but it takes a good team to consistently finish 2nd and 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geedub Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Much prefer winning and playing well most weeks to winning a cup but playing shite and hanging about the relegation zone for the majority of the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I'd definitely take bottom six this season for a Scottish Cup, no questions asked. League Cup, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxywell Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I'd definitely take bottom six this season for a Scottish Cup, no questions asked. League Cup, not so much. If we were struggling in the bottom 6 most people on here would want rid of McCall long before we got to a cup final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 If we were struggling in the bottom 6 most people on here would want rid of McCall long before we got to a cup final. This, plus struggling in the bottom six is a difficult situation to turn around. If someone could guarantee bottom 6 + Cup win would be followed by top 3 the next season, it's a no brainer. However, if it was bottom 6 + cup win + more seasons in bottom six then I think I'll pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Say we're bouncing around the 5th, 6th and 7th places all season long and on the final post split day get pipped to 6th. We then go and pump the other bottom six diddies before going to the cup final on good form with a settled team and win it, wouldn't you take that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Like I said, only if we don't get stuck there. I know we are dealing in hypotheticals, but it's a big risk. I also know it's easy for me to say, as I was lucky enough to be at Hampden the day we won. So my view is certainly biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bop Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I'd take being papped out of the domestic cups in the first round if we managed to qualify for the Europa league group stages. Financially it would be huge for us, surely at least a few million? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I'd take being papped out of the domestic cups in the first round if we managed to qualify for the Europa league group stages. Financially it would be huge for us, surely at least a few million? check page 3 http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/OfficialDocument/uefaorg/Finance/02/11/95/44/2119544_DOWNLOAD.pdf varies greatly but likely around £1.5mill payment from UEFA for group participation possibility of generating income as well, not sure we would get as much as £2mill but it would be healthy for the club Wonder what a Scottish cup win would generate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.