Society Consultation

[Kmcalpin]

If I recall rightly, £300 was the basic level and that was worth more back in the day. Quite a few paid far more than that. Many were not in interested in the slightest in benefits. For many years afterwards, no one asked them to pay any more. I seem to recall being told that once a member always a member. 

[wellgirl]

Just now, dennyc said:

I was not referring to you when I commented that some might be upset.  If you took it that than way, then apologies. I was really trying to just explain the logic at the time. Red or white? 

I understand. Tbh the well society weren't really on my radar at that point in time but I joined as soon as I could 

White mostly 

[wellgirl]

25 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

If I recall rightly, £300 was the basic level and that was worth more back in the day. Quite a few paid far more than that. Many were not in interested in the slightest in benefits. For many years afterwards, no one asked them to pay any more. I seem to recall being told that once a member always a member. 

Surely this has to be about aligning the people who paid a lump sum for life membership and who aren't contributing any more with the people who are contributing monthly - and also so that there isn't a situation where people join en masse to get voting rights on certain issues. I suppose it's just about putting everyone on an equal footing - and I get that some people have paid in thousands - so if some people have more benefits than me it doesn't bother me at all 

[dennyc]

9 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Surely this has to be about aligning the people who paid a lump sum for life membership and who aren't contributing any more with the people who are contributing monthly - and so that there isn't a situation where people join en masse to get voting rights on certain issues. I suppose it's just about putting everyone on an equal footing - and I get that some people have paid in thousands 

I think those are valid issues you raise.

Firstly, I don't believe you can now just join up for life with a one off payment. That is purely a historical situation.  A Board member can perhaps confirm that? I suppose those who signed up earlier are reducing in number in any event, as time takes it's toll? I wonder how many we are actually talking about? Less than folk imagine perhaps?

Secondly, as for signing up purelyto vote on a specific issue,  I recall that for the Barmack situation, the signing up purely to vote was addressed and avoided. But yes, maybe you should be a member for a certain length of time to qualify for a vote. And if that requires a NEW member to contribute for, say, 12 months before qualifying then so be it. Again perhaps the Board need to clarify that. Maybe they already have.

I know for a fact that this discussion has been noted by the Board and will be on their agenda.

[weeyin]

FWIW, I was a relatively early joiner (number 473) and joined at Steel Membership Level. The membership pack I received says that Steel Membership was "a £300 joining fee then after the first year an annual membership fee of £50".

[dennyc]

18 minutes ago, weeyin said:

FWIW, I was a relatively early joiner (number 473) and joined at Steel Membership Level. The membership pack I received says that Steel Membership was "a £300 joining fee then after the first year an annual membership fee of £50".

Apparently I paid £400 up front so I don't suppose you have details of what that level was or meant? I have not kept any paperwork. Probably lost during various house moves. 

[wellgirl]

55 minutes ago, dennyc said:

I think those are valid issues you raise.

Firstly, I don't believe you can now just join up for life with a one off payment. That is purely a historical situation.  A Board member can perhaps confirm that? I suppose those who signed up earlier are reducing in number in any event, as time takes it's toll? I wonder how many we are actually talking about? Less than folk imagine perhaps?

Secon. ly, as for signing up purelyto vote on a specific issue,  I recall that for the Barmack situation, the signing up purely to vote was addressed and avoided. But yes, maybe you should be a member for a certain length of time to qualify for a vote. And if that requires a NEW member to contribute for, say, 12 months before qualifying then so be it. Again perhaps the Board need to clarify that. Maybe they already have.

I know for a fact that this discussion has been noted by the Board and will be on their agenda.

I think they have it well addressed in the stuff they've sent out to be fair. I'll just need to read it a bit more closely. No I don't think you can join for life these days 

I have read it a couple of times but it's a bit wordy so I'll need to go back to it. I think the biggest issue tbh is apathy. People not voting on certain proposals 

[weeyin]

17 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Apparently I paid £400 up front so I don't suppose you have details of what that level was or meant? I have not kept any paperwork. Probably lost during various house moves. 

I'll see if I can find it. From memory, different levels were on different pages and I stuffed the Steel one in a drawer because that was my sub level.

I'm pretty sure I came across the rest of the pack a couple of months ago, so I'll try and track it down.

[Kmcalpin]

16 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Apparently I paid £400 up front so I don't suppose you have details of what that level was or meant? I have not kept any paperwork. Probably lost during various house moves. 

There were 3 levels. Steel at £300; claret and then amber. One of those two kicked in at £1,000. Can't remember which was which. 

[dennyc]

11 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

There were 3 levels. Steel at £300; claret and then amber. One of those two kicked in at £1,000. Can't remember which was which. 

Cheers. So I must have been Claret or Amber then.

There was also a junior membership I think and even one aimed at Businesses. I think that kicked in at a few thousand? and involved picking POTM, entertaining clients  on match day and use of FP for meetings. All a bit hazy though. Securing those business members was seen as the ultimate but I think we struck out on that front. Even more difficult nowadays.

[Goggles & Flippers]

I can maybe clarify some stuff as I and a few other contributors on here were involved as a sounding board by Leeann and Derek Weir.

From the club website in 2013: https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2013/03/19/well-society-sign-up-night/

Junior Steel Membership – £25 (for juveniles under 15)
Steel Membership – £300
Claret Membership – £,1000
Amber Membership – £5,000
1886 Membership – £25,000

The annual fee was to keep your benefits alive (which at the time were pretty substantial), from memory Amber benefits for an annual renewal fee of £1,000 maybe? you got stuff totalling way more than annual contribution. Not paying the annual fee did NOT affect your voting rights, just access to the benefits as per your tier.

The £300 barrier to entry was something they were aware of at the time and DD's were floated at launch but there were fears it had financial compliance issues with the WS being a provident society. A few years down the line Hearts blazed that trail and we embraced it but more as a means to appeal to a wider audience to attain £300 steel membership (and beyond if you wished) in easier to swallow chunks. It was not sold as a universal adoption by all members, more it would be nice if you did.

I can recall from when £5 was deposited new members post 2015 got their membership pack and voting rights which caused some consternation at the time, over them getting to £300 deposited, maybe it was part of the sales tool to boost membership.

 

[joewarkfanclub]

Lets not turn this into a who paid what.

The whole point of the Society is to bring everyone together.

Legacy members should be protected and current members should be treated fairly.

There are many who fall into both categories.

Im sure the current Well Society Board are reading this and aware of the feelings on both sides.

I trust them to do the right thing.

[dennyc]

I wonder how I got to £400 then as that is not one of the levels covered? And Sally confirmed I was sitting at £400. I certainly paid a lump sum and not monthly subscriptions.

And from what you suggest, it was the top up benefits that folk paid an annual fee for and not a membership renewal? So initially a member for life with benefits being a yearly option? Whatever they were. I do recall that what was on offerseemed to be very changeable depending who chaired the presentations. Very much adapting on the hoof early doors. 
Anyway, clear as mud all these years on. 
 

 

[Kmcalpin]

8 hours ago, dennyc said:

I wonder how I got to £400 then as that is not one of the levels covered? And Sally confirmed I was sitting at £400. I certainly paid a lump sum and not monthly subscriptions.

Ad hoc top ups? A few legacy members went down that route. 

[dennyc]

55 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Ad hoc top ups? A few legacy members went down that route. 

Maybe. I can’t remember what I did yesterday, never mind in 2013. 
Thanks

[stv]

35 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Maybe. I can’t remember what I did yesterday, never mind in 2013. 
Thanks

Maybe you could remember some of Grizzlyg jokes ,that's when most of them come from. 

I'm sure I paid £300 up front with nothing more required to gaurentee a vote for ever. With the option of voluntarily paying something every month but not a requirement. But things did change a lot over the years after that first year. All got a bit confusing if I recall correctly 🤔 

[Busta Nut]

so 12 year ago folk would have paid either.

£300 (£2.08 per month)
£1000 (£6.94 per month)
£5000 (£34.72 Per Month)
£25000 (£173.61 Per Month)

First two tiers should be telt they need to start contributing. 

I'd give the 5k tier a year more. 
and the 25k tier is fucking insane. I hope no one did that at the time. 

[joewarkfanclub]

45 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

so 12 year ago folk would have paid either.

£300 (£2.08 per month)
£1000 (£6.94 per month)
£5000 (£34.72 Per Month)
£25000 (£173.61 Per Month)

First two tiers should be telt they need to start contributing. 

I'd give the 5k tier a year more. 
and the 25k tier is fucking insane. I hope no one did that at the time. 

You cant do that when the rules at the point of parting with your money were that you were a member for life and kept the voting rights that come with that.

That would leave the Society open to allegations of misselling.

But given that the model has now been changed, a way need to be found to provide fairness to new members so that they arent disadvantaged compared to legacy members.

Im sure the new Society board will have looked at the matter extensively.

It does beg the question as to how much thought went into the long term financials at the time of set up and why those in charge settled on that model.