Motherwell v Celtic 11/10/2026

[MFC-craig]

21 minutes ago, star sail said:

I am reading plenty of posts about what the manager got wrong but I have not read any posts saying what he should have done.

People have been asking for Maswanhise to  be dropped. He was.

People were asking for O Donnell to start because we needed leadership on the park. He did.

So what is the magic formula that was going to turn that game around today? 

 

I think people asking for these changes are looking for round pegs in round holes, the manager starts O’Donnell but at CB when obviously people want him to play RB in place of Sparrow.

Tawandas replacement wasn’t the problem today, I thought SPH was acceptable.

Whatever the problems have been over the last few games, Wully isn’t the answer. Particularly when Said came on and made a difference. 
 

 

[David]

56 minutes ago, MFCL84 said:

I too was disappointed by the booing at halftime and even more so when Vogt was eventually substituted. As a support we really need to get behind the team and the manager. Vogt isn't going to get any better if the fans apply that kind of pressure, and the manager and other players won't perform to the best of their abilities either if the fans are on their backs.

Imagine what the level of support for the team would be like if some had their way and the entire end of the east stand was booted out? There would only be moans, groans and booing left. That section is virtually the only one that backs the players consistently. 

There's a reason the players and staff tend to end up there when the season ends and we're celebrating anything. I don't see the players congregating at the O'Donnell, that's for sure!

[star sail]

13 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Even if AJ had picked his best 11, whatever might might be, there is no guarantee we would have achieved a better result. Thats a necessary caveat. However, it would have improved our chances of doing so. There were other factors at play. 

Personnel wise, swap Knight Lebel for SOD. SOD replaces Sparrow at RB. Introduce Maswhanise and Said for Vogt and Hodge. 

What if Vogt and Hodge have shown more at training in the last 3 weeks than Maswanhise? AJ has the advantage over all of us in that regard in that he has seen them in training when we have not.

What if Vogt has plenty of talent but is lacking confidence. Do you hook him after 20 mins? 

The manager has way more information to draw on than we have. He also has more experience. If he didn't, he would be on the fans forum and we could have a go at managing the team. 

It is nowhere near as simple as we armchair pundits make out. 

[David]

7 minutes ago, star sail said:

It is nowhere near as simple as we armchair pundits make out. 

Which is probably why football clubs don't just advertise the manager position in the local press. If it was as easy as us fans think, clubs would just pay a punter 40k a year to do the job.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, star sail said:

What if Vogt and Hodge have shown more at training in the last 3 weeks than Maswanhise? AJ has the advantage over all of us in that regard in that he has seen them in training when we have not.

What if Vogt has plenty of talent but is lacking confidence. Do you hook him after 20 mins? 

The manager has way more information to draw on than we have. He also has more experience. If he didn't, he would be on the fans forum and we could have a go at managing the team. 

It is nowhere near as simple as we armchair pundits make out. 

You make some very valid points, but fans can often see with their own eyes what is working and what isn't. Many players look great on the training pitch but can't translate that to matchdays  - Derek Adams being a classic case in point. I happen to think that Vogt is talented but hasn't been doing it on the pitch for some reason. The manager has to balance an individual's interests against those of the team as a whole and many think that he got that wrong today.  If he had hooked Vogt after 20 minutes, would that have been any worse than taking him off when he was, to boos? The lad himself must have known he was playing poorly. I don't agree with such booing by the way. Personally, I'd have taken him off at half time. That would have balanced the lad's and team's interests. 

No-one is saying that football management is simple as it isn't.  But, punters and pundits are all entitled to have their opinions and to express them, within reason. Its all part and parcel of the game. 

[wunderwell]

I seen this on Facebook and I am hearing it now. All this pundits thinking it’s so easy chat. I stated pre kick off and flung my hat in that the team was completely wrong. 
The only person that thought that team could beat Celtic was Johansen.

Second of all on page one of the chat, I said why I wouldn’t have started O’Donnell and that’s also firmly on Johansen. 
I said he should have had managed game minutes. Johansen chose to not do that and flung him against Celtic. 
 

People want to see him fail line. 
No they don’t. We want to see him succeed but we have eyes and half a brain. 
 

It’s just the usual condescending reasons that we fans don’t know what we are talking about. 

Funnily enough I see it the other way round. 
Time will tell. 
What I do agree with is that’s it a moot point no way the board are going to do anything until that loss count increases. 

[WellHighlander]

A passive performance that was deservedly punished.

A 2-0 loss to Celtic is, on paper, no disgrace, but had it not been for a combination of poor finishing/fine goalkeeping, it could have been much, much worse.

What is clear to see at the moment is this is not the Motherwell of last season.

To replicate what JBA achieved was always going to be extremely difficult, yet AJ’s reign began with confidence. Recent results have seriously eroded it.

Motherwell are a team who can’t score but are porous defensively – the worst type of combination in football.

His team selection yesterday smacked of a manager scratching around for answers.

It’s now nearing mid-October, and it would seem he has no idea of what his best team is.

Central defensive pairings change regularly, as does the forward line.

You could see from fairly early on yesterday that it was not working. AJ waited until half-time, fortunate that it was only 1-0.

Changes should have come then, but he remained steadfast. At 1-0 there was always hope. At 2-0, the game was up.

Others have covered the performances of individuals. Of more concern to me was the team display.

Players not playing in natural positions can be attributed as a reason, but this was not a display of bravery to play from the back, or pressing without the ball.

It was the display of a side riddled with doubt and lacking confidence, so much so that from a fairly early stage long balls were being pumped forward to the isolated Palmer Houlden. It was a throwback to the recent dark days of Kettlewell and Alexander.

AJ has shown he can replicate JBA’s style, so we need to give him the opportunity to get back to it, but the pressure will come sooner than may be anticipated. The reason? He’s had decent money to spend.

So far, the jury is out on many of his investments. Fail to get a result at a struggling Kilmarnock and he is really going to come under scrutiny.

[joewarkfanclub]

I think its possible for fans to point out things they thought the manager got wrong without necessarily thinking they know better than the manager or could do a better job than him.

Alfred clearly has way more coaching experience and knowledge than your average fan. But when he talks about certain things pre-match and you see none of it during the game, and then he comes out post match and says he got the starting line up correct, then eye brows will be raised.

If you go down that route, I think you need to add a little flesh to the bones to back up why you think that. Otherwise, fans will quite rightly question your methods/thought process.

If the manager talks about intensity, I expect to see intensity. If he talks about movement and rotations, I expect to see movement & rotations.

He talked about lack of experience in the side, so I wasnt surprised to see SOD start especially when he talked up the senior pro's contribution in training. Whether we think it worked or not is another matter, but at least I can understand why he did that.

Putting Willy in after a 3 week break where he has had time to work with him was a surprise. But given JT's recent form and the fact he has been away on his travels, I could understand it. However, he had another poor 45 minutes and he should have protected the player at half time.

Similarly with Hodge. Playing him on the left, you intitially give him the benefit of the doubt as tactically you think he has seen something in Celtic that requires it. However, with the entire midfield being overun in the first 45, you expect to see a change for the second half.

These arent highly technical tactical observations. Just very obvious things that may have improved our fate before the game was gone.

 

 

[wunderwell]

30 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I think its possible for fans to point out things they thought the manager got wrong without necessarily thinking they know better than the manager or could do a better job than him.

Alfred clearly has way more coaching experience and knowledge than your average fan. But when he talks about certain things pre-match and you see none of it during the game, and then he comes out post match and says he got the starting line up correct, then eye brows will be raised.

If you go down that route, I think you need to add a little flesh to the bones to back up why you think that. Otherwise, fans will quite rightly question your methods/thought process.

If the manager talks about intensity, I expect to see intensity. If he talks about movement and rotations, I expect to see movement & rotations.

He talked about lack of experience in the side, so I wasnt surprised to see SOD start especially when he talked up the senior pro's contribution in training. Whether we think it worked or not is another matter, but at least I can understand why he did that.

Putting Willy in after a 3 week break where he has had time to work with him was a surprise. But given JT's recent form and the fact he has been away on his travels, I could understand it. However, he had another poor 45 minutes and he should have protected the player at half time.

Similarly with Hodge. Playing him on the left, you intitially give him the benefit of the doubt as tactically you think he has seen something in Celtic that requires it. However, with the entire midfield being overun in the first 45, you expect to see a change for the second half.

These arent highly technical tactical observations. Just very obvious things that may have improved our fate before the game was gone.

 

 

Really well put, as ever, JWFC. 
 

[wellfan]

We were absolutely shite yesterday, and most of that was down to the manager. While that pissed me off, what annoyed me even more was his post-match interview. If he keeps trying to tell fans that water isn't wet and shite isn't shite, he's even more naive than I thought. There's nothing wrong with admitting you're getting things wrong, that something needs to change, and that it's time to reset rather than stubbornly persevering with a transition phase that's clearly not working. Honesty goes a long way and buys you time, and he'd do well to realise that sooner rather than later.

[Kmcalpin]

Some good insightful posts from Wellhighlander and Joe. 

Another post which caught my eye on P & B was one by Handsome Devil. It focuses on our good early season form and our subsequent slump. I attributed this phenomenon earlier to AJ having little time to change things but HD put a slightly different slant on it. Due to injuries, AJ had little scope to chop and change and was severely limited in terms of team selection. Now that players are returning, we have a bigger fit squad and decisions have to be made about who to pick and who to leave out.  Perhaps thats why he's struggling. 

Normally it takes a manager 2/3 months to find his best formation, especially if a number of diverse new players arrive. However, at the moment we have little idea about our best defence; the midfield is a disorganised mess; and attacking options are also unclear. I fear Priestman's return, although a bonus in theory,  might exacerbate that confusion. 

HD rightly points that we have good players but they're not playing together; not as units. Is it simply lack of training or something else - not buying into whatever system AJ is trying to introduce? 

[grizzlyg]

Last 5 mins summed up the day. We get a free kick at edge of box, Faddy lines up and plays it right across 18yd line to sellik player 

[stv]

10 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Some good insightful posts from Wellhighlander and Joe. 

Another post which caught my eye on P & B was one by Handsome Devil. It focuses on our good early season form and our subsequent slump. I attributed this phenomenon earlier to AJ having little time to change things but HD put a slightly different slant on it. Due to injuries, AJ had little scope to chop and change and was severely limited in terms of team selection. Now that players are returning, we have a bigger fit squad and decisions have to be made about who to pick and who to leave out.  Perhaps thats why he's struggling. 

Normally it takes a manager 2/3 months to find his best formation, especially if a number of diverse new players arrive. However, at the moment we have little idea about our best defence; the midfield is a disorganised mess; and attacking options are also unclear. I fear Priestman's return, although a bonus in theory,  might exacerbate that confusion. 

HD rightly points that we have good players but they're not playing together; not as units. Is it simply lack of training or something else - not buying into whatever system AJ is trying to introduce? 

It takes a fair bit for a team with lots of new faces to gel ,a few months at least, adding a new manager to that it may take longer.The surprising thing is how well we had done early season for it to fall away quite a bit recently. Hopefully things will come together once more games are played and not get more disjointed.

We must stop giving away early cheap goals to start with.

[grizzlyg]

Just all very depressing just now. The atmosphere was so flat yesterday but losing an early goal doesn't help.  It's not the poor lads fault but I think when we all saw Vogt in starting line-up it almost sucked the energy out us. But at same time we aren't seeing what is happening at training so AJ must have had his reasons. I cant fathom though why change wasnt done at half time

[Kmcalpin]

24 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Just all very depressing just now. The atmosphere was so flat yesterday but losing an early goal doesn't help.  It's not the poor lads fault but I think when we all saw Vogt in starting line-up it almost sucked the energy out us. But at same time we aren't seeing what is happening at training so AJ must have had his reasons. I cant fathom though why change wasnt done at half time

Vogt was hung out to dry by AJ. I quite get that he'd want to boost the lad's confidence by handing him  a starting slot, if he'd shown up well in training. Nothing wrong with that. However against Celtic? It simply wasn't the game to do that. A bad call pure and simple. 

[grizzlyg]

15 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Vogt was hung out to dry by AJ. I quite get that he'd want to boost the lad's confidence by handing him  a starting slot, if he'd shown up well in training. Nothing wrong with that. However against Celtic? It simply wasn't the game to do that. A bad call pure and simple. 

Yup, made no sense when Said, JT or Kanga could have played that role.  The reaction of some though when he got subbed I just didnt enjoy.  Yes we all agreed he had to come off but for folk to be on thier feet sarcastically clapping I just dont agree with.

[wellfan]

10 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Yup, made no sense when Said, JT or Kanga could have played that role.  The reaction of some though when he got subbed I just didnt enjoy.  Yes we all agreed he had to come off but for folk to be on thier feet sarcastically clapping I just dont agree with.

Maybe some fans were sarcastically applauding the manager for finally taking Vogt out of the firing line. A firing line he should never have been put in in the first place, given he’s clearly not good enough. It’s absolutely shite man management, to the detriment of both the player and the team.

[Kmcalpin]

26 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Yup, made no sense when Said, JT or Kanga could have played that role.  The reaction of some though when he got subbed I just didnt enjoy.  Yes we all agreed he had to come off but for folk to be on thier feet sarcastically clapping I just dont agree with.

Agreed Grizzly. No point in getting on at the lad himself if he's struggling badly. No one booed him around me although a few critised the manager. 

[joewarkfanclub]

13 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Maybe some fans were sarcastically applauding the manager for finally taking Vogt out of the firing line. A firing line he should never have been put in in the first place, given he’s clearly not good enough. It’s absolutely shite man management, to the detriment of both the player and the team.

Absolutely all 100% true.

But those booing need to give their head a wobble.

No one ever got better by being booed off the park.

Booing the team or the manager or even the officials at the end of the match is all fair game.

Singling a player out, who is already struggling for confidence is such a bad look.

[wunderwell]

8 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Absolutely all 100% true.

But those booing need to give their head a wobble.

No one ever got better by being booed off the park.

Booing the team or the manager or even the officials at the end of the match is all fair game.

Singling a player out, who is already struggling for confidence is such a bad look.

Only ever booed once in my life at the team, but it was firmly rooted at the manager.
Motherwell 2 St Mirren 3 - 12th May 2007.

[grizzlyg]

30 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Maybe some fans were sarcastically applauding the manager for finally taking Vogt out of the firing line. A firing line he should never have been put in in the first place, given he’s clearly not good enough. It’s absolutely shite man management, to the detriment of both the player and the team.

Actually a good point pal, never thought about that.  If Willy's confidence was low its absolutely shattered now

[grizzlyg]

7 minutes ago, wunderwell said:

Only ever booed once in my life at the team, but it was firmly rooted at the manager.
Motherwell 2 St Mirren 3 - 12th May 2007.

If i ever done a stand up gig at fir park the booing would be 10 times worse ( minimum) 🤣🤣

[Mootherwell86]

As others have said, the reaction to Vogts substitution was probably more aimed at the management team particularly due to the timing of the second goal. 

That being said, for a professional footballer to offer up that level of intensity and performance on and off the ball, I can see why some fans were pissed off. 
 

[wunderwell]

5 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

If i ever done a stand up gig at fir park the booing would be 10 times worse ( minimum) 🤣🤣

I will only ever boo once again in my entire life, it will be firmly rooted at Grizzly.
Stand up and joke for Motherwell gig - to be confirmed.
Starring Raymond Mearns, Tam Cowan and welcoming Grizzly G.

[grizzlyg]

1 minute ago, wunderwell said:

I will only ever boo once again in my entire life, it will be firmly rooted at Grizzly.
Stand up and joke for Motherwell gig - to be confirmed.
Starring Raymond Mearns, Tam Cowan and welcoming Grizzly G.

🤣🤣🤣