Amber_nectar Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 As far as I can make out JB is not in the country at the moment so Derek Weir seems to be the club spokes person at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Craig Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 As others have said why don't we tell the Old Firm to accept the same TV money as the rest of the league or GTF? If Rangers were given the ultimatum of accept what's on offer or fuck off surely they'd have to accept in their current financial state? Too right and that was kinda the point I was trying to make. The OF need us as much as we need them and all Scottish teams have had to put up with their bullying and ultimatums for years. Why not give them a taste of their own medicine? Join us on our terms or yer oot on yer erse!!! I know it's not very democratic but drastic times and drastic actions and all that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybug Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Why didn't they just release the statement " We are in total support of a 10 team SPL cause we can get more TV money, screw the fans!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 To me it seems obvious that the club and we the fans are at complete polar opposites on the 10 team top division . The only comment we have had on here is from Flow and fair play to him however he as a club employee has to be careful about expressing opinions even personal ones and plays Devils Advocate in order to generate discussion and prevent topics such as this becoming stale. We now have an official comment from the board which suggests to me that they are paying attention to this debate, however what I would love to see is an official idiots guide to the reasons for this proposition. Break it down for us with real figures, how much do we get from the TV deal (pretty sure this must be in the public domain somewhere anyway), how much better/ worse off would we be (always assuming that we are part of the top echelon) if we were to move to this/stay the same /expand the league. Maybe then we would understand the Clubs position. At the recent MST Q&A night it was made clear there was no support from fans for a 10 team top division. Over to you Mr Weir as Vice Chairman with the finance remit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 As mentioned earlier, why don't the 'Provincial 10' get together and get the Mould-Firm to fuck. Technically, the Provincial ten would be all of the SPL excluding Hearts and Hibs. Wouldn't it? Given that outside the Capital, all other towns are provincial..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Craig Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Technically, the Provincial ten would be all of the SPL excluding Hearts and Hibs. Wouldn't it? Given that outside the Capital, all other towns are provincial..? Well would Dundee be classed as a town along with Aberdeen?? Maybe Provincial is the wrong word. How about 'The non-Old Firm 10'? Or 'Everyone Else'? <_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 To me it seems obvious that the club and we the fans are at complete polar opposites on the 10 team top division . The only comment we have had on here is from Flow and fair play to him however he as a club employee has to be careful about expressing opinions even personal ones and plays Devils Advocate in order to generate discussion and prevent topics such as this becoming stale. We now have an official comment from the board which suggests to me that they are paying attention to this debate, however what I would love to see is an official idiots guide to the reasons for this proposition. Break it down for us with real figures, how much do we get from the TV deal (pretty sure this must be in the public domain somewhere anyway), how much better/ worse off would we be (always assuming that we are part of the top echelon) if we were to move to this/stay the same /expand the league. Maybe then we would understand the Clubs position. At the recent MST Q&A night it was made clear there was no support from fans for a 10 team top division. Over to you Mr Weir as Vice Chairman with the finance remit. Great point! ive never felt as distant to my club as i do now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well would Dundee be classed as a town along with Aberdeen?? Maybe Provincial is the wrong word. How about 'The non-Old Firm 10'? Or 'Everyone Else'? <_> Sorry, not meaning to be a dick, was just wondering as much as anything! I think 'the good guys' has a nice ring to it. Also, Dundee is barely a town, Aberdeen even less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Break it down for us with real figures, how much do we get from the TV deal (pretty sure this must be in the public domain somewhere anyway), how much better/ worse off would we be (always assuming that we are part of the top echelon) if we were to move to this/stay the same /expand the league. I doubt this is possible. I would be shocked if BSkyB, ESPN, BBC, ITV, C5 or any other broadcaster have even told the SPL what they would offer for a league that has a choice of 240 games a year! Sadly, I'd be shocked if any of the Yesfor10 Clubs bothered even finding out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I suppose the bottom line here is that we (Scottish Football) are just at the point we knew was coming. None of the super efficient billy wizz marketing types can identify the killer plan. We are now so severely restricted by our previous greed and bad decision making that we are unable to make a good decision now - because it will be the end. In essence to survive financially we need to kill the game as a spectacle. For the game to flourish we'd need to die financially. Sky will be so proud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I suppose the bottom line here is that we (Scottish Football) are just at the point we knew was coming. None of the super efficient billy wizz marketing types can identify the killer plan. We are now so severely restricted by our previous greed and bad decision making that we are unable to make a good decision now - because it will be the end. In essence to survive financially we need to kill the game as a spectacle. For the game to flourish we'd need to die financially. Sky will be so proud What a world we live in where to stay alive, we have to play football soooo bad that it will drive away all the fans just to keep money to keep us afloat I LOVE THE SPL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Why didn't they just release the statement " We are in total support of a 10 team SPL cause we can get more TV money, screw the fans!" They did - just in slightly less direct language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanr Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 “What we do have to bear in mind is the importance of the funds we receive from TV deals, other media and sponsors. We are unfortunately already in a position where our best players can move to lower leagues in other countries for significantly increased wages and any further reduction in income from those sources will only make this problem worse. This will lead to a decline in the quality on the pitch. I don't understand why the 'money men' can't grasp how bad the current 'product' actually is. If the quality of professional football in Scotland falls any lower then Junior football may overtake it in terms of quality. It really is that bad and it isn't all that interests fans in going to matches. Among other factors, it is competition that keeps us going to football, and the reason Sky have been interested in the last few years is because rangers and celtic are as bad as each other which makes the title challenge 'interesting' to neutrals. If it was a one horse race the TV companies wouldn't care. If it was a 4or 5 horse race then you would see interest from fans of those teams and neutrals alike. Stop pandering to the old firm and grow a pair! Though I still don't see why clubs can't break away from the 'football on TV' era, cut their cloths accordingly, and get back to what football was made for, if we really need TV money it will come with a competitive league. The fans are the reason Scottish football got to where it got to, but I can see many of us outliving it due to a series of mistakes made with wealth and self interest the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 'Flow Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 To me it seems obvious that the club and we the fans are at complete polar opposites on the 10 team top division . There's the thing right there Al... You say the club and the fans are at polar opposites mate but no-one from Motherwell Football Club has come out publically and nailed any colours to the mast – for or against. Today’s update from Derek reiterated just that. That's because proposals are constantly changing from meeting to meeting and that's where this football club likes to do its business, as opposed to backing themselves into a corner via the press. People assume things which may or may not be correct, it’s natural. They then form an opinion (often not in possession of all the facts, which is an unfortunate reality) and, because the club tries to be as professional as it can be by keeping discussions with fellow clubs and representatives of the league in-house, they are pilloried for it. Fans clamour for communication, and rightly so. It's my job, with regards to Motherwell FC, to provide it to a certain extent. However, I am sure you can understand the frustration of some when they try and explain their point of view, whilst walking on political eggshells elsewhere, and get torrents when it might not be what you/person x want(s) to hear. That’s consistent with loads of things, not just this debate. I think it's UBH who has on his signature about the nature of communication being letting people hear things that you otherwise might not want them to hear. That's well and good, and true, but the ultimate argument against that would be a football messageboard. I’m all too well aware; I've been on both sides of the fence! But sometimes the truth is often stranger than fiction. And please don’t take this is a criticism of you personally Al – it’s absolutely not. It’s a frustrating dilemma, that’s all. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Want to find a picture thats a bit bigger? Noooo, you don't want to see the bigger picture, it's been proven fans don't want that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 There's the thing right there Al... You say the club and the fans are at polar opposites mate but no-one from Motherwell Football Club has come out publically and nailed any colours to the mast – for or against. Today's update from Derek reiterated just that. That's because proposals are constantly changing from meeting to meeting and that's where this football club likes to do its business, as opposed to backing themselves into a corner via the press. People assume things which may or may not be correct, it's natural. They then form an opinion (often not in possession of all the facts, which is an unfortunate reality) and, because the club tries to be as professional as it can be by keeping discussions with fellow clubs and representatives of the league in-house, they are pilloried for it. Fans clamour for communication, and rightly so. It's my job, with regards to Motherwell FC, to provide it to a certain extent. However, I am sure you can understand the frustration of some when they try and explain their point of view, whilst walking on political eggshells elsewhere, and get torrents when it might not be what you/person x want(s) to hear. That's consistent with loads of things, not just this debate. I think it's UBH who has on his signature about the nature of communication being letting people hear things that you otherwise might not want them to hear. That's well and good, and true, but the ultimate argument against that would be a football messageboard. I'm all too well aware; I've been on both sides of the fence! But sometimes the truth is often stranger than fiction. And please don't take this is a criticism of you personally Al – it's absolutely not. It's a frustrating dilemma, that's all. Cheers It has been all over the media for since these proposals came out that Motherwell Football Club were in favour of these proposals. Why has it taken so long for the club to come out and say it hasn't made it's mind up? A cynic would say that they were in favour and didn't expect the fans to react in the manner they have and now they are trying to spin a line to appease the fans for a while. Only a cynic would think that though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 You say the club and the fans are at polar opposites mate but no-one from Motherwell Football Club has come out publically and nailed any colours to the mast – for or against. Today's update from Derek reiterated just that. That's because proposals are constantly changing from meeting to meeting and that's where this football club likes to do its business, as opposed to backing themselves into a corner via the press. People assume things which may or may not be correct, it's natural. They then form an opinion (often not in possession of all the facts, which is an unfortunate reality) and, because the club tries to be as professional as it can be by keeping discussions with fellow clubs and representatives of the league in-house, they are pilloried for it. Fans clamour for communication, and rightly so. It's my job, with regards to Motherwell FC, to provide it to a certain extent. However, I am sure you can understand the frustration of some when they try and explain their point of view, whilst walking on political eggshells elsewhere, and get torrents when it might not be what you/person x want(s) to hear. That's consistent with loads of things, not just this debate. I think it's UBH who has on his signature about the nature of communication being letting people hear things that you otherwise might not want them to hear. That's well and good, and true, but the ultimate argument against that would be a football messageboard. I'm all too well aware; I've been on both sides of the fence! But sometimes the truth is often stranger than fiction. And please don't take this is a criticism of you personally Al – it's absolutely not. It's a frustrating dilemma, that's all. Cheers Well until someone from the club comes out and explains what input they had in the steering group, why they were happy to go forward with proposals for the 10 team SPL as a member of said steering group, why they have yet to consult the fans, and why - at a time when every other club is coming out one way or another - are we yet steeped in utter silence?! You can't expect fans to think any differently until those questions are answered. If I was a member of a 6 person action group at work tasked with picking what software should be on our computers at work, and the 6 person action group went forward with the proposal that we should be completely banning internet access - then I'd fully expect my work colleagues to assume I supported the idea and was partly responsible for allowing it as a proposal in the first place, especially if I just sat at my desk with my mouth shut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 There's the thing right there Al... You say the club and the fans are at polar opposites mate but no-one from Motherwell Football Club has come out publically and nailed any colours to the mast – for or against. Today's update from Derek reiterated just that. That's because proposals are constantly changing from meeting to meeting and that's where this football club likes to do its business, as opposed to backing themselves into a corner via the press. People assume things which may or may not be correct, it's natural. They then form an opinion (often not in possession of all the facts, which is an unfortunate reality) and, because the club tries to be as professional as it can be by keeping discussions with fellow clubs and representatives of the league in-house, they are pilloried for it. Fans clamour for communication, and rightly so. It's my job, with regards to Motherwell FC, to provide it to a certain extent. However, I am sure you can understand the frustration of some when they try and explain their point of view, whilst walking on political eggshells elsewhere, and get torrents when it might not be what you/person x want(s) to hear. That's consistent with loads of things, not just this debate. I think it's UBH who has on his signature about the nature of communication being letting people hear things that you otherwise might not want them to hear. That's well and good, and true, but the ultimate argument against that would be a football messageboard. I'm all too well aware; I've been on both sides of the fence! But sometimes the truth is often stranger than fiction. And please don't take this is a criticism of you personally Al – it's absolutely not. It's a frustrating dilemma, that's all. Cheers So which is then Flow a Rock or a Hard place , appreciate the update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 'Flow Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 It has been all over the media for since these proposals came out that Motherwell Football Club were in favour of these proposals. Has it? Based on fact or assumption? Because our Chairman, Vice Chairman or Chief Executive haven't giving any public opinion (other than when Derek appeared on Sky/BBC basically saying what was contained within today's update) doesn't mean to say Motherwell FC have are either for or against the proposals (because they are changing by the meeting). As Derek has said, and I quote, "A document setting out the various options has been circulated to all clubs which recommends a number of changes, including league size. Some of those changes are good for Motherwell FC, others not so good. The changes have not yet been voted on and there is still far more work to be done before decisions are made." The size of the league forms only one part of this proposal from the SPL. This is not a singular issue (despite it being given the most coverage in the press). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous Wee Grafter Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Form a British League, that would be excellent....Job done!! Awayday heaven!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 It has been all over the media for since these proposals came out that Motherwell Football Club were in favour of these proposals. Why has it taken so long for the club to come out and say it hasn't made it's mind up? A cynic would say that they were in favour and didn't expect the fans to react in the manner they have and now they are trying to spin a line to appease the fans for a while. Only a cynic would think that though Cue Steve Diggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Has it? Based on fact or assumption? Because our Chairman, Vice Chairman or Chief Executive haven't giving any public opinion (other than when Derek appeared on Sky/BBC basically saying what was contained within today's update) doesn't mean to say Motherwell FC have are either for or against the proposals. As Derek has said, and I quote, "A document setting out the various options has been circulated to all clubs which recommends a number of changes, including league size. Some of those changes are good for Motherwell FC, others not so good. The changes have not yet been voted on and there is still far more work to be done before decisions are made." It has been on all forms of media ( I grant based on assumption) that Motherwell are in the FOR camp. For example in the Daily Record the day after these proposals were announced they had a piece which included a FOR camp an AGAINST camp and an undecided camp. We were in the FOR camp .It has also been reported on all other media channels. I can't help if the media report things based on fact or assumption. My point is why didn't the club come out and deny that they were in the FOR camp? You can't blame people for beleiving MFC were in favour of these proposals if they stayed silent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'm no cynic you know what I've just typed a long reply but Fuck it, GAME OVER, SPL, OLd Firm SKY ESPN and all the lapdogs that clamber after them can go and jam it. I'll pick up what games I can for the remainder of the season, and see what Shite product the money men leave us with. Mr Weir, enjoy signing all those bigger cheques to pay the players for another couple of years until there is even less interest in the product and the TV money dissapears once again and there will be even less punters coming thru' the gates as they've became TV fans or have been lost to the game altogether Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 You say the club and the fans are at polar opposites mate but no-one from Motherwell Football Club has come out publically and nailed any colours to the mast – for or against. Motherwell are one of the few teams involved in the 'strategy group'/Old Firm bumfest that proposed the idea. Is that not evidence enough that they are supporting these changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 'Flow Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I can't help if the media report things based on fact or assumption. Totally understand nwf, I alluded to that dilemma in a previous post. My point is why didn't the club come out and deny that they were in the FOR camp? You can't blame people for beleiving MFC were in favour of these proposals if they stayed silent. As Derek as said, Motherwell FC are not in any camp. Like many other clubs, we're in the "Things have still to be discussed and finalised camp, including the size of the league". The proposals detailed in the press, which people are taking as gospel, are changing and have changed a lot since the whole thing kicked off. Is that not evidence enough that they are supporting these changes? I'll be rude and (try and) answer a question with a question... Is every committee unanimous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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