milo Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 On paper on defence is more than decent looking yet I'm struggling to remember a season where we've conceded so many goals. What are the reasons for shipping so many goals all season? And not just to the good sides. Hibs, St Mirren and Thistle have all put 3 past us in games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 they face 2-3 running at them far too often, due to a combination of half arsed midfielders who have questionable effort to cover, and the fact that we are usually committing a chunk of that midfield going forward.( the same ones that are half arsed in defensive mode) the set pieces we have lost however are tragic and the sheer quantity is inexcusable for a, well drilled and coached defence........? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) All too often the Full Backs are pushing too far up the pitch because the wide mid fielders are not dropping back to support them, there is invariably a massive gap middle to back and teams are cute enough to drop balls in there and run at our defenders who with notable exceptions seem reticent to put in a tackle. ETA Yesterday the whole team seemed afraid to tackle the United players for fear of giving away a foul or getting booked. Edited April 27, 2014 by East_Stand_Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 We can't blame the midfield for the ridiculous numbers of goals shipped from set pieces. To be fair, we have struggled to field a consistent back 5 (including the goalie) all season, and that does make a difference. Constant reshuffling will never improve a a defensive unit. For me, though, there also seems to be an issue with concentration. McManus has been a good influence overall, but there are times when he (and the other defenders) seem to lose focus or switch off during a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 I think it starts in goal. We have been fortunate for a few seasons in having really good goalkeepers in Ruddy and Randolph who gave our defenders comfort and confidence in that they confidently commanded the area in and around the 6-yard box. This meant the defenders don't need to worry about having to clear too much in that area. Next, the manager doesn't seem to want our two full backs to operate as orthodox defenders but more as auxiliary wingers. This allows teams to counter attack us by playing passes for runners into the big spaces they leave behind them when we ilse possession. Our two centre halves are too similar in their manner of play - both old fashioned and able to deal with things straight in front of them but far too easily turned and pulled out of position and very immobile. Having 'had a go' at the defence, in their defence, they are continually exposed to runners because of a serious lack of cover from our midfield. Main reason for this is we playi with two wide midfielders which means the central two midfielders have to cover a hell of the pitch both supporting the forwards and tracking back and from side to side. The 'simple' solution and one I've always favoured (maybe I'm an old fashioned traditionalist) is to use a system of play which the players are capable of operating in as opposed to using a system in which they are incapable of operating. First and foremost I believe that all four defenders first priority is to defend and not operate as auxiliary midfielders/forwards. Next we should operate with four in the midfield, with two whose main role is to track runners and protect the centre halves and two supporting the two forwards. It maybe old fashioned but I believe 4-4-2 is a system that our players understand and can play in and be at ease in. We simply don't have the class of players to be playing the type of systems that only top class players can play in. All the best teams have usually been built on a good sound defence and I see no reason to deviate from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 I think there are probably three or four reasons why we have conceded so many goals this season and it shouldn't be reduced to something simplistic. That said considering we have 6'3 goalkeeper and Hutchinson and McManus at centre half we lose a hell of a lot of high balls in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 The centre halves miss the screening that our midfield two possessed in previous years and we lack an assured keeper. Our fullbacks meanwhile are drilled to go forward more than prevent crosses. We also miss the pressing game that Ojamaa, Murphy and Humphrey offered when we defended from the front. Why we played such a high line yesterday against a mobile front 4 was beyond me. McManus as an individual has had many more good games than bad but he's not quite guided our defence in a manner that you would expect given his international and European experience. I'm happy to sacrifice good defending for an attacking approach but you need to be able to rely on your defensive shape when you are going through a sticky spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 Obviously not without exception but I don't think it is a coincidence that our best spell defensively was when McFadden and Sutton were playing as our front two. McFadden performed the role as link between midfield and forwards more effectively than anyone else we have and that had the team more balanced. When he hasn't played there I think the gap between Lasley and Carswell & Hutchinson and McManus has been too great. When we have Sutton and Anier up top I think we end up with too big a gap and then too much pressure on our defence. There are clearly other weaknesses such as the keeper is less good than last year and our set play defending has been dreadful but I think we end up putting too much pressure on when the midfield are too aggressive and if we relieve the pressure then the other weaknesses are not as exposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 I've also noticed that Hammell often has to cover for a midfielder or central defender and has to play centrally, leaving a gap down the wing that isn't filled by a midfielder. The centre backs also fail to hold a line, usually Hutchinson is the culprit rushing out of defence to lunge into a tackle. We've also missed Ramsden who is a good solid defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 Hammell has been at fault in a quite a few goals this season, as pointed out, a lot of us expected McManus would bring a little more to the back 4 with his experience which hasn't appeared to happen, Hutch looks like he's off so is Ramsden the natural successor or do we go out and find someone new? Reid has impressed from what I've seen and we have Kerr is potential backup? McManus has indicated he's interested in a renewal so based on the money being right its a shoe in if we can afford/want him. Lawson may start next season showing why McCall opted to bring him to the club last summer and his role offers the back 4 protection. I don't think we have to consider any striking changes next season, Sutton, Arnier, (can't see a bid coming in for Faddy) and Erwin waiting in the wings. Vigurs and Ainsworth need an intense pre-season to prepare them mentally and physically to track back. As for Carswell and Lasley, both have their moments but at times this season there's been no bossing in that critical area of the park. I do think the lack of confidence in the goalkeeper has influenced the composure and decision making at critical points during matches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 Hammell has been at fault in a quite a few goals this season, as pointed out, a lot of us expected McManus would bring a little more to the back 4 with his experience which hasn't appeared to happen, Hutch looks like he's off so is Ramsden the natural successor or do we go out and find someone new? We need someone new coming in. No reflection on Ramsden's ability but he's 33 next season and he's injured half the time. We need new blood coming in anyway with this seasons record back there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 We'll need a new central defender anyway cos Hutchie will be offski. He's not had a good season and makes way too many errors. The whole season as soon as we're put under any kind of pressure we've crumbled. Im sure McCall knows where our problems lie this season and some wheeling and dealing will be done close season im sure. It will mean some players will be leaving. 2 defenders,a midfielder,and a goalie required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 Kerr is a central defender, and wouldn't be surprised to see McCall slot him in there to replace Hutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 That's a scary prospect. I'd reckon, knowing McCall, he'll go with experience, and a backline of Hammell, McManus, Reid and Ramsden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 That's assuming Ramsden is re-signed. I think Kerr would do just fine in the centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 That's a scary prospect. I'd reckon, knowing McCall, he'll go with experience, and a backline of Hammell, McManus, Reid and Ramsden. And who will replace Ramsden for the 30 games a season he is injured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 I suspect our budgeting will require that we lose the equivalent of 2 first team players wages for 2014/15. So Kerr in for Hutch may be the only viable prospect along with replacing players with those we already have. Unfortunately if you want to get more money, you need to beat Albion Rovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 And stop sitting in the house watching the EPL on Sky. Or supporting the glasgow teams . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 The centre halves miss the screening that our midfield two possessed in previous years and we lack an assured keeper. Our fullbacks meanwhile are drilled to go forward more than prevent crosses. Very true. Our two full backs also withdraw into the centre when we're under attack making it easier for the opposition to fire in crosses. I would take issue with Weeyin (respectfully of course) in that our midfield is, in part, to blame for the amount the amount of set pieces and crosses from which we concede. They allow the opposition time and space on the edge of our box and on the wings to fire in accurate crosses or have pots at goal. The more the ball is in or around our box then the greater the chance of conceding corners or fouls or crosses. As others point out responsibility for defending runs throughout the team. In part too Stuart McCall's philosophy in not signing an out and out defensive midfielder causes problems. In the short term it may be worth deploying Craig Reid in a central midfield role (I think Shaka mentioned that) to shield the defence. He also possesses a bit of pace which is in short supply in our engine room. Maybe not the answer but worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 And who will replace Ramsden for the 30 games a season he is injured? Crikey. We must have incredibly long seasons if he's made 47 appearances since 2012, and has still been out for 30 games each year. Kerr is an able deputy, but a first choice CB or RB he is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 That's assuming Ramsden is re-signed. I think Kerr would do just fine in the centre. Ramsden is signed until 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 Just a small point, and remember I'd father his children, but watch big Handsome at corners. What is his role? And thinking about it, the small things can make a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 Losing the Player of the year, isn't a small thing But I get the jist, Sutty does do a fair bit of defensive work, but isn't Higgy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Very true. Our two full backs also withdraw into the centre when we're under attack making it easier for the opposition to fire in crosses. I would take issue with Weeyin (respectfully of course) in that our midfield is, in part, to blame for the amount the amount of set pieces and crosses from which we concede. They allow the opposition time and space on the edge of our box and on the wings to fire in accurate crosses or have pots at goal. The more the ball is in or around our box then the greater the chance of conceding corners or fouls or crosses. I'd be interested to see the data, but it certainly doesn't feel like we have conceded an unusually large number of corners or free kicks this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 the buck has to stop with the manager due to the contracts he handed out last summer and the systems he employs. That midfield selection was unbelievable on saturday. With the players we have contracted and the need to cut the budget i don't see things improving next season. Does anyone know the details of ramsden's injury beyond ”knee”? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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