Welldaft Mk1 Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I agree to an extent Steelboy. The reality is that McCall has made his emphasis on attack and not defence. It would appear that we can not afford a team that does both very well. If you look at the bench on Saturday - Erwin, Moore, Faddy etc mostly attacking players. It is hugely frustrating to see us concede so many goals. In fact it is almost embarrassing that a side sitting 3rd has conceded as many as the teams in the bottom half. However it does not change the fact that I would rather see my team win 3-2 that 1-0 and play like Chelsea yesterday to only stifle the game. Were we winning 1-0 and losing 1-0 you would have as many posters on here moaning about how boring we are to watch. I could bet my mortgage that they/we would not be praising our resilient defence. Facts are we are still sitting 3rd in the league and will hopefully go no lower than that by the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I'd be interested to see the data, but it certainly doesn't feel like we have conceded an unusually large number of corners or free kicks this season. I think its more the amount of set pieces, crosses from which we concede. If our goalie and centre backs could defend them better then there would be less of a problem, but they obviously can't. Given that, its probably better to minimise their capacity for making mistakes. Against Celtic for example Gunnar conceded a totally unnecessary corner as the ball was going past harmlessly. He did the right thing in palming it out as he didn't know where it was going but one of a number of our lads who could see perfectly well what was going on could have shouted but none did. In doing so we set ourselves up to make a mistake - on that occasion we didn't fortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted April 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I would rather win 3-2 as well, but we're not, we're losing 5-1, 3-2 and drawing 3-3! In fact, we're having to score 3 goals in most games in order to get anything from the game! It's unsustainable and most weeks understandably unmanageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 i think the time we are losing the goals in is telling as well. The vast majority recently in the second half and a fair few right before half time which suggests that fitness is an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I think our fitness has to be looked upon as a major concern as we appear to be blowing out our arses after about 60 minutes of each game and it's happening more and more as we approach the seasons end. This was very obvious against Killie, Inverness at Fir Park (albeit we had the game won) and Celtic and St.Mirren, hence we are pegged back and invariably end up conceding. For me it's a sign of a side which is poorly coached and therefore questions have to be asked of the management and their training regimes because it's happening all too often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML1 Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 For me it's a sign of a side which is poorly coached Im not and never have been one of McCall's biggest fans but i think having the current squad in third shows that they are well coached. As for the case for the defence , Hammell isnt near as good as folk are saying on his 500 thread if he was better than the players listed there he wouldv'e been in Premiership earning a bundle instead of them , Hutchinson is as rash and reckless in the tackle as you can be without swinging a chain and broken bottle and i still haven't moved from my original and much slaughtered on here opinion that high earning hacking and holding McManus is little more than a liability who like most of our support thinks he is much much better than he actually is. I agree the midfield doesnt help much either but they cant take all the blame. IMO The manager is getting the best out of the squad he has though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmfc Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 On paper on defence is more than decent looking yet I'm struggling to remember a season where we've conceded so many goals. What are the reasons for shipping so many goals all season? And not just to the good sides. Hibs, St Mirren and Thistle have all put 3 past us in games! Dodgy goalkeepers and Stephen McManus. For an experienced international defender, his decision making and the schoolboy-like-defending is comical to say the least. Really disappointed in what I thought would've been a decent centre-half pairing being one of the worst I've seen at Fir Park in 25-30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 One of the worst in 25-30 years? Bollocks. In my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 We'll need a new central defender anyway cos Hutchie will be offski. He's not had a good season and makes way too many errors. I agree with your assessment of Hutchinson. He's making the same mistakes he was making 3-4 years ago. He may well leave in the summer, but not sure if any clubs at a higher level than ours will be that interested in a player whose progression has stalled. I suspect he'll move for more money but it'll be a team in the bottom half of league one. At best... He may prove me wrong, there may be a manager who sees potential in him. But in my opinion, he's at an age where managers will be looking for more than "potential"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 if he plays in a team that has anybody protecting the defence he will improve. Our defenders have been hung out to dry by mccall since jennings left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 if he plays in a team that has anybody protecting the defence he will improve. Our defenders have been hung out to dry by mccall since jennings left. Which is why many of us though he brought in Lawson, to sit in front of the back 4. That clearly hasn't worked out though! I was shocked to see we've actually kept 10(TEN) clean-sheets in the league this season in 35 games, which is actually pretty good going. Actually the 5th best in the league & 4 more than we achieved in the league in all of last season. Which makes the fact we've conceded 58 goals in the other 25 league games and being only 3 goals off of having the worst goals against record in the league all the more remarkable. I also had a quick look and to the best of my knowledge of the 65 goals we've conceded this season we've lost goals from.. 9 corners 5 free kicks & also 5 penalties for good measure.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Kerr is an able deputy, but a first choice CB or RB he is not. Is he? Like, no harm to the big man, he's a trier, and I'm happy to be proven wrong as I haven't seen as much of us this season as I normally do, but I just don't see it. He's obviously a good athlete and a chunk of a boy, but he just looks terrified out there. He's the same age as Gunning was when he was with us, and although he had some shaky days, there looked like there was a player in there somewhere, Kerr...not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Which is why many of us though he brought in Lawson, to sit in front of the back 4. That clearly hasn't worked out though! the problem is that even by the standards of our squad lawson is very slow so he doesn't offer much defensively hutchy and mcmanus both good games against celtic when reid was sitting in front of them which obviously made things a lot simpler for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I would rather win 3-2 as well, but we're not, we're losing 5-1, 3-2 and drawing 3-3! In fact, we're having to score 3 goals in most games in order to get anything from the game! It's unsustainable and most weeks understandably unmanageable. We have also already won more games than we did last season so not all doom and gloom. I think we have scored 3 or more in 8 games. I think your emotion is clouding the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Dan Twarzcik has kept the same number of clean sheets as Gunnar and Hollis put together. That's not insignificant. I believe if he had played every game this season we would be clear in second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Yet was released by Aberdeen and third choice at Dundee in the Championship. Think people are over stating his playing ability a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Dan Twarzcik has kept the same number of clean sheets as Gunnar and Hollis put together. That's not insignificant. I believe if he had played every game this season we would be clear in second. That's a lot of whatiffery. According to soccerbase, Twardzik's record reads: Ross County 1 - 2 Motherwell Motherwell 3 - 0 St Mirren Aberdeen 0 - 1 Motherwell Partick 1 - 5 Motherwell Motherwell 4 - 0 St Johnstone So, 3 clean sheets out of our 8 total in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 That's a lot of whatiffery. According to soccerbase, Twardzik's record reads: Ross County 1 - 2 Motherwell Motherwell 3 - 0 St Mirren Aberdeen 0 - 1 Motherwell Partick 1 - 5 Motherwell Motherwell 4 - 0 St Johnstone So, 3 clean sheets out of our 8 total in the league. 3 of out of 10 actually, Hollis also has 3 and Gunnar has 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 My point wasn't about Dan being brilliant- I don't remember him making any breath-taking stops during his stint. My suggestion was more to do with the other two being rank rotten. A couple of semi-assured performances each to show for a season is not acceptable. I'm in no way beating the drum to get Dan back, but I am beating the drum to ensure that our priority for the close season is to bring in a goalie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Yet was released by Aberdeen and third choice at Dundee in the Championship. Think people are over stating his playing ability a little Teams managed by Craig Brown and John Brown at the time, anyone not rated by that pair is solid enough in my book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted April 29, 2014 Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 Teams managed by Craig Brown and John Brown at the time, anyone not rated by that pair is solid enough in my book. Was it not Craig Brown that signed Randolph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 My point wasn't about Dan being brilliant- I don't remember him making any breath-taking stops during his stint. Dan Twardzik made the best save I've seen this season from open play against Partick Thistle. The Nielsen's penalty save might equal it though. I can't help but notice our goals conceded has gone into melt down since Simon Ramsden got injured in January. In fact in his last five matches played we kept four clean sheets. Since then we've only got one clean sheet. Over the season we averaged 1.16 goals conceded with Ramsden starting and 2 goals conceded when he's missed out. If you exclude the 5-0 drubbing by Celtic we actually only conceded 16 goals in 17 Ramsden starts, against 38 conceded in the 19 without him. Might just be a coincidence....or it might not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Yet was released by Aberdeen and third choice at Dundee in the Championship. Think people are over stating his playing ability a little Twardzik was 2nd choice at Dundee for most of the season and keep out by Kyle Letheren who apparently had a very good season. If you are the second choice keeper and the 1st choice is having a stormer of a season you aren't going to get many opportunities. If we had your 2nd favourite Motherwell keeper ever behind Darren Randolph for the last few seasons he probably wouldn't have got many games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Just having a wee look at the goalkeepers. ............................LH......GN. 0 conceded.......3.......4. ........................... 1 conceded.......5.......3. ........................... 2 conceded.......3.......3. ........................... 3 conceded.......2.......6. ........................... 4 conceded.......0.......1. ........................... 5 conceded.......0.......2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Thought struck me after the game on Wednesday. Are our defece missing Humphrey and Ojaama? Ainsworth is quick over short distances but doesn't take us from one end of the pitch like those two guys could. Hence when we're defending a lead we end up sitting deeper as we simply don't get high enough up the park? Not suggesting it's the only factor, or even the main one, but reckon it's having an impact... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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