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Nope, I’m not twisting it. You said I seemed “overly interested in policing” your opinions because I wrote a detailed response challenging your original post. That is exactly what I’m disputing. A long response to a strongly worded argument is not “policing” it. It’s just disagreeing with it in detail. You’re free to say Alfred is out of his depth. I’m free to take the reasoning you used to get there and pull it apart. Calling that “policing” is just a distraction from the actual argument.

Oh, it wasn't a direct response to anything you said! Your initial comments sparked a few thoughts, and I just rolled with it from there 😂

Not really looking forward to this one given the form we have been in. But its a home game for me, so I will be going regardless. Thankfully Kilmarnock arent Celtic and McCann seems to be struggling to get any consistency out of his team, so should be a slightly more level playing field this week. Always nice to win these games as it means I get the bragging rights locally, but will be happy just to see some sort of structure and improvement around our performance. Saving grace is that Hibs play Falkirk, see even if we do lose heavily, we cant go bottom of the league as one of them will still be below us!

Wow! Really dont know where to start with all of that, so Im not going to bother with most of it. Fair bit of misrepresentation of some of my post, but that all seems pretty incidental to the point you were trying to make. Lets just say you lost me when you suggested that the problem with Vogt, maybe wasnt Vogt!

A win would be nice on their new grass pitch.

Absolute bollocks. You’re twisting things now. Recasting my observation about your apparent need to police my opinions as an issue with how I’m “allowed” to express myself is a disingenuous misrepresentation of what I actually said. I said you seemed overly interested in policing my opinions, given the lengthy response you wrote picking apart my original post. We can debate and disagree all day long, but misrepresenting what someone said isn’t debate.

Still laugh when every Celtic fan I know told me he wasn't "Celtic class". We miss his passing from the back badly: with Watt and Just ahead, he could unlock defences in an instant.

I love comments like " players not listening to him/"buying into" his instructions." based on absolutely fuck all. The amount of utter pish spouted about what is happening in the dressing room grows arms and legs with every defeat.

Did you have to?

A fresh start ,no Willy starting 🤞 a big pitch with spaces to run into, the chance to revert to early season winning style and home a team that's playing shite. What could possibly go wrong .

I hope that AJ turns things around and we improve as a team, both in respect of performance and results. How will it turn out? Who knows. What I do know though, is that if the length of AJ's reign is threatened by poor results, the fans may well force the board's hand. Thats how football operates for better or for worse.

First off, that post from David is the longest thing I have ever read!!! It was however a good read and made some really good points. Better than some of the analysis you read from the Scottish media pros. I did not read the debate above as policing or particularly confrontational. It made for good reading from two posters who are clearly articulate and give some thought to the game. My only gripe Wellfan is that the conclusion generally comes round all to quickly to the manager being on an inevitable path to the exit door. That apart I think most of us empathise with what you say and share your frustration about the team. You might be right about AJ. I don't think there is one of us that is not concerned by the current direction of travel. We have to all hope however that you have got it wrong. Anyway the debate is a good one on both sides and not just argument for the sake of it.

Won't detain you all for long. Basically, AJ needs until Christmas to organise the squad imho. After that, the board need to re-assess. I hear comments about players not listening to him/"buying into" his instructions. Most of my working life was spent under managers who a) couldn't do my job or b) hadn't done my job, but I still went into work and did my best. I expect them to do their best The club needs to pull together to get us out of our mini-slump, and by "the club" I mean the supporters too.

I'm not policing how you express anything. You made a statement, I challenged the reasoning behind it, and now you're reframing that challenge as an issue with how you're "allowed" to express yourself. It isn't. You're entitled to say he's out of his depth. I'm equally entitled to say the evidence you've used doesn't support that conclusion yet. That's debate, not policing.

You seem overly interested in policing how I express my opinions on here. You’ve decided the evidence doesn’t justify my conclusions, but that’s your interpretation, not some objective threshold I’ve failed to meet. I think Alfred’s out of his depth, and I’ve explained why. You don’t agree and think it’s too early to reach that conclusion. Fine. Who cares? We’ll soon find out, won’t we?

Will we win this one? Who will be getting Pelters this week? COYW

I'm not confusing anything. Your latest reply is a lot more sensible than the original post I quoted. Saying you're concerned by the performances is absolutely fair. If you'd said that to begin with, I wouldn't have replied. But saying there's "absolutely no" progress, that he's "incapable" or "too stubborn", "out of his depth", and that failure is becoming "inevitable" is entirely different, as you know. My point is simply that the evidence doesn't justify that level of certainty yet, especially when we've recently seen with JBA how misleading an eight-game snapshot can be.

You’re confusing having a strong opinion with presenting it as fact. I’ve explained why I’ve reached my conclusions about Alfred, and I stand by them. The points tally is a fact, but it doesn’t tell the whole story. My argument is about the performances, the lack of identity and the apparent regression. You can argue that eight games is too small a sample, but that doesn’t make those concerns any less legitimate. I’m not claiming to know with certainty how this ends, but I don’t need to wait until the season’s over to say what I think I’m seeing.

You're completely missing the point. Of course football analysis is subjective. The issue is whether opinion is being presented as certainty. JBA having no league wins in his first five games is a fact. Eight points after eight games is a fact. AJ also having eight points after eight is a fact. Playing 11 competitive games in 37 days is a fact. Saying AJ is "incapable", "too stubborn", "out of his depth" and that the outcome is becoming "inevitable" isn't fact. That's your interpretation. Same with saying JBA had a clear identity "from day one". That's much easier to say now because we know how his season developed. Go back and look. The usual suspects certainly were not saying that at the time. My point was never that my interpretation is objective fact. It's that you're drawing conclusions from a very small sample and presenting them as though they're obvious. They're not. At all.

Accusing me of presenting hindsight as objective analysis is ironic when your entire response is largely subjective analysis presented as objective fact.

I’m absolutely amazed at people defending Vogt I tell my boys sometime you’ll play shit but effort is non negotiable people defending him should watch the game back & see how many times he let people run off him I’ve previously said maswanise needs dropped, totally changed my opinion on the basis we’ve got nothing better attacking wise we’ve had an absolute shocker over the summer

💯

Ive only seen the pic on FB but theres no context with that...who would be a polis these days ? Can't do right for doing wrong and every move gets filmed just in case...ive probably gone off topic but its taken heat off Alf a bit.