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ECL Sligo Rovers v Motherwell 28/7/22

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10 hours ago, dennyc said:

SOD is on the Bench game after game. On that basis he must be fit enough...unless of course Alexander is playing games. If he is not fit, why is he on the bench in the first place? If he is fit, why is he ignored in games that are going against us? Games where we have no width and our midfield is being bypassed. If he is not considered good enough he should not be on the bench in the first place . Whichever applies, that should make you question the decisions our Manager is making.

No matter what, it appears Alexander sees SOD as less than a last resort. No appearance on Thursday despite a shocking team effort with no attacking threat out wide. Central players shunted out wide looks more irrational to me than actually bringing on someone who has performed well at International level in that position. Especially given the financial opportunity that is slipping away. Last season Alexander chose to play a centre back at RB rather than turn to O'Donnell. We only need to look at the Hibs cup tie to see how that worked out. And the knock on effect of that lunacy is a Centre Back whose confidence has been shattered and whose indecision is now causing us even more problems. 

  So as far as I can see there is no reason why O'Donnell could not play in front of McGinn in a position he has excelled in for Scotland. Or at least be given the opportunity. In the absence of any wingers at the Club, you never know he might even provide that attacking threat you are looking for. And McGinn played on the right of a back three at Hibs so he should be comfortable in that role also. 

For me, Alexander has made it personal regards SOD. O'Donnell is certainly not the best player on the planet but he surely has more to offer than a kick about at half time. Alexander's blinkered approach is damaging our Club and I wonder who the next player will be to fall out of favour. SOD is not the first and I don't think he will be the last

Wait, wasn't there strong calls for O'Donnell to be dropped in favour of Mugabe playing out wide in his position last season? Remember? He was supposed to be terrible, it was a farce that he even got called up for Scotland? Now that the manager has dropped O'Donnell and brought in someone else we're suddenly wanting him back in the team?

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10 hours ago, stv said:

Sunday drinks . Who is Armstrong anyway ???  The new manager ? 

Can't have Armstrong as new manager.......that would be pointless!!  Ba boom

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23 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Can't have Armstrong as new manager.......that would be pointless!!  Ba boom

Very good!

But I prefer The Chase.

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11 hours ago, thewelllfan said:

See tbf to him both were very poor against Sligo and our midfield was poor last season Cornelius and maybe Goss should be given a chance. I feel the squad is too thin we need another Deep lying playmaker, Striker, Cb, and a Lb to even mount a top 6 charge or cup run.

I think its a bit unfair to single out 2 players for being poor on Thursday night when it was the entire team performance that was lacking. Everything was just too slow and pedestrian. I thought Spittal showed glimpses in the first half of having something about him as he was always looking for a forward pass. He did fade badly in the 2nd half. Slattery was similar and had a very poor 2nd half. 

There is an argument for giving Cornelius and Goss a chance, but as you say, our midfield was poor last year with Goss in it,  but it always performed better in the games Slattery played. We were absolutely honking in the games where he was having his "sabbatical".

My frustration with Yodo (and some other posters) is that he never gives his alternative. He just comes in when things have gone wrong, says "thats shite" and disappears.

Entirely his perogative of course, it is a fans forum, it just gets wearing after a while.

Sorry Yodo. Its not personal.......

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37 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I think its a bit unfair to single out 2 players for being poor on Thursday night when it was the entire team performance that was lacking. Everything was just too slow and pedestrian. I thought Spittal showed glimpses in the first half of having something about him as he was always looking for a forward pass. He did fade badly in the 2nd half. Slattery was similar and had a very poor 2nd half. 

There is an argument for giving Cornelius and Goss a chance, but as you say, our midfield was poor last year with Goss in it,  but it always performed better in the games Slattery played. We were absolutely honking in the games where he was having his "sabbatical".

My frustration with Yodo (and some other posters) is that he never gives his alternative. He just comes in when things have gone wrong, says "thats shite" and disappears.

Entirely his perogative of course, it is a fans forum, it just gets wearing after a while.

Sorry Yodo. Its not personal.......

The alternative is to have signed at least 2 upgrades on what we have in the middle of the park . There is no quality in the midfield nobody that can boss a game and organise the team .None of the present midfield deserve to play in Claret / Amber for Alexander to go into this season with near enough the same squad is laughable . I now think he’s working his ticket out the club and a pay off he can’t possibly have been watching the dross from last season and think we were okay . Or could he ? 

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2 hours ago, David said:

Wait, wasn't there strong calls for O'Donnell to be dropped in favour of Mugabe playing out wide in his position last season? Remember? He was supposed to be terrible, it was a farce that he even got called up for Scotland? Now that the manager has dropped O'Donnell and brought in someone else we're suddenly wanting him back in the team?

Not that I recall.
SOD has been a target for some from the moment he signed but I do accept he has had some poor performances. Every player has. He has also had some good ones but his detractors are noticeably quiet then. Playing him in his natural position might help and might just provide us with some attacking threat down the right. It certainly seems to have worked out that way at both his previous club and for Scotland. 
As for Mugabi, everybody could see right away that he was a fish out of water at right back. The Hibs fiasco proved it and eventually Alexander appears to have accepted that. It took a while though. Fans did like Mugabi, yes, and wanted him to play . But as a central defender when questions were being asked of the other centre backs and when it was not clear who made the best pairing.   Alexander playing him out wide was a gamble that failed. And repeatedly exposing Mugabi has certainly dented his confidence to this day.  

To link the two things and say that fans wanted Mugabi to play at right back ahead of O’Donnell is pushing it. 

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4 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Not that I recall.
SOD has been a target for some from the moment he signed but I do accept he has had some poor performances. Every player has. He has also had some good ones but his detractors are noticeably quiet then. Playing him in his natural position might help and might just provide us with some attacking threat down the right. It certainly seems to have worked out that way at both his previous club and for Scotland. 
As for Mugabi, everybody could see right away that he was a fish out of water at right back. The Hibs fiasco proved it and eventually Alexander appears to have accepted that. It took a while though. Fans did like Mugabi, yes, and wanted him to play . But as a central defender when questions were being asked of the other centre backs and when it was not clear who made the best pairing.   Alexander playing him out wide was a gamble that failed. And repeatedly exposing Mugabi has certainly dented his confidence to this day.  

To link the two things and say that fans wanted Mugabi to play at right back ahead of O’Donnell is pushing it. 

think its the old thing of becoming a better player by not playing . i said before we had the worst full backs in spl, ga has addressed the rb position , but not the left.I would be for giving sod a chance at lb , it may work but he was a large part of the defensive problems last year. so on this one , i dont blame the manager

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For what its worth I would go with

                                                                               Kelly

                                         O'Donnell    Mugabi     Lammie     Carroll

                                               McGinn  Spittal    Slattery    Goss

                                                             Shields     Efford

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3 hours ago, David said:

Again, look at my entire post and take that comment I made in context. I posted our overall results and accomplishments over the past five to ten years just before I said it, which should have provided the context.

Our fans have nothing to complain about in the main. Do they have the right to moan about the football played last season? Sure. That's their call. 

But as a club we've had more good and even great seasons than terrible. Last season wasn't great, but there have been circumstances involved outwith the manager and clubs control which have been mentioned in the past, but a lot of fans simply don't want to hear about those because it would mean cutting the club and manager some slack.

Again, see my point above. How many outright terrible seasons have we had over the past five to ten years? Despite the bleating almost every single year about how we're surefire relegation candidates, how many actual relegation fights have we been in? 

And yes, much of our fanbase is spoiled. Many of the younger generation have known only the results of the past ten years or so. They didn't live through the administration years or some of the absolute guff we've seen at Fir Park in the years before. They're used to seeing a club that finishes in the top four (even finishing 2nd!) and playing in Europe fairly regularly.

And on your final point, I do stand by that. I've seen it said often enough on social media as far back as the start of last season. 

I think fortunate rather than spoiled is a more accurate decision. But the thing that matters is the current performance under the current Manager. Whilst we were gathering points fans were prepared to set aside a lot of what we were watching. For six months that has not been the case. How long do we give him to turn it round? I don’t believe he is capable of change and unless he does, or goes, I think those spoiled/fortunate younger fans will soon experience  the pain we have experienced in the past.

And we will just have to disagree on the last point. I believe fans have had enough of Alexander because of what he is subjecting us to on the pitch and the results that are resulting from that, rather than his dress sense and condescending speech. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

think its the old thing of becoming a better player by not playing . i said before we had the worst full backs in spl, ga has addressed the rb position , but not the left.I would be for giving sod a chance at lb , it may work but he was a large part of the defensive problems last year. so on this one , i dont blame the manager

How about SOD as a wing back in front of McGinn on the right of a back three? Utilising his assets and offsetting the weaker part of his game. That’s how O’Donnell was deployed successfully at Kilmarnock and how he was deployed successfully for Scotland. I don’t see the point of signing a player based on performance and then playing him in a different role. Perhaps explains why it was always frustrating comparing his Scotland performances to his contribution at Motherwell. 

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32 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Not that I recall.
SOD has been a target for some from the moment he signed but I do accept he has had some poor performances. Every player has. He has also had some good ones but his detractors are noticeably quiet then. Playing him in his natural position might help and might just provide us with some attacking threat down the right. It certainly seems to have worked out that way at both his previous club and for Scotland. 
As for Mugabi, everybody could see right away that he was a fish out of water at right back. The Hibs fiasco proved it and eventually Alexander appears to have accepted that. It took a while though. Fans did like Mugabi, yes, and wanted him to play . But as a central defender when questions were being asked of the other centre backs and when it was not clear who made the best pairing.   Alexander playing him out wide was a gamble that failed. And repeatedly exposing Mugabi has certainly dented his confidence to this day.  

To link the two things and say that fans wanted Mugabi to play at right back ahead of O’Donnell is pushing it. 

I can quite clearly remember numerous calls across social media and even this forum I think for Mugabi to replace him at full-back. 

And for the record, I found that thinking to be a bit off. I've always been a fan of O'Donnell, and think he's perfectly fine for our level. He makes mistakes on occasion, but everyone does, otherwise they'd be playing further up the food chain. 

I also like McGinn though, and certainly think we could look to find a way to play both of them.

It's the left hand side I'm a little worried about at the moment. 

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2 minutes ago, David said:

I can quite clearly remember numerous calls across social media and even this forum I think for Mugabi to replace him at full-back. 

And for the record, I found that thinking to be a bit off. I've always been a fan of O'Donnell, and think he's perfectly fine for our level. He makes mistakes on occasion, but everyone does, otherwise they'd be playing further up the food chain. 

I also like McGinn though, and certainly think we could look to find a way to play both of them.

It's the left hand side I'm a little worried about at the moment. 

I agree the solution could be to play play both and I agree the left is a worry.
Carroll…and rightly so at times…does get flack but against Sligo I thought it was revealing how few pass options he was given. Nobody running wide for him and a tiring/limited midfield inside of him. So all too often he had to turn back or punt a hopeful cross into the box. In truth, it was similar when McGinlay played so I think the issue is as much about the options our left back has in front of him. Again against Sligo, who actually covered if Carroll pushed forward similar to McGinn in the first half? Slattery did that job on the right. 

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19 minutes ago, dennyc said:

How about SOD as a wing back in front of McGinn on the right of a back three? Utilising his assets and offsetting the weaker part of his game. That’s how O’Donnell was deployed successfully at Kilmarnock and how he was deployed successfully for Scotland. I don’t see the point of signing a player based on performance and then playing him in a different role. Perhaps explains why it was always frustrating comparing his Scotland performances to his contribution at Motherwell. 

Good shout Dennyc.   If we were playing to strengths I reckon this is the type of formation that would work. 

3 centre halves enable us to have more in midfield where we' get out muscled most games. 
It also removes the need to force a front 3 when we don't have a right winger and play someone like Tierney who's likely to cause problems.

One big weakness is to repeatedly play the same formation, force players into positions that don't work for them and when it doesn't work bring out the tombola and see who else can be squeezed into a position that doesn't work for them

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36 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

3 centre halves enable us to have more in midfield where we' get out muscled most games. 
It also removes the need to force a front 3 when we don't have a right winger and play someone like Tierney who's likely to cause problems.

When you put it like that it highlights that we do have options with the squad we have. Just need to hope the manager can maybe look to change things up.

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18 minutes ago, dennyc said:

How about SOD as a wing back in front of McGinn on the right of a back three? Utilising his assets and offsetting the weaker part of his game. That’s how O’Donnell was deployed successfully at Kilmarnock and how he was deployed successfully for Scotland. I don’t see the point of signing a player based on performance and then playing him in a different role. Perhaps explains why it was always frustrating comparing his Scotland performances to his contribution at Motherwell. 

Agreed,but wouldnt that mean GA having t change to a 352,..343,my preference would b a 5 in midfield SOD right,tierney in a forward roll centrally,slattery inside SOD,this is where i start t scratch my head 2 places in midfield up for grabs,do we play carrol a natural"left back"n ask him t push on,that would leave spittal morris McGuire  deano goss for one other place,sheilds n KVV through middle,none of this peeling out wide n leaving central area empty,u would have the 2 playing inbetween the goalposts tierney coming from deep,backed up by slattery and an other or we could sacrifice the defensive abilities of SOD and carrol n go with more forward thinking"wingbacks"i remember jim obrien playing that role effectively years ago,if we go 433 we will get overrun in the middle again,ive checked back sligo's systems,they change all the time according t who they r playing,mostly a 4 sometimes even 5 in the middle i can c that being the same on thursday so we need t match them up numbers wise or it could b a long night

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4 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

Is game on Motherwell tv regular stream or PPV ? 

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2022/07/26/next-up-sligo-rovers-2/
HOW TO FOLLOW THE GAME ONLINE

If you are in the UK, the game will be live on Premier Sports one. You can find this on your Sky television on channel 412 and on Virgin Media, channel 551.

If you are outwith the UK, the match will be broadcast live on LOI TV.

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On 7/25/2022 at 12:18 PM, andalg said:

For what its worth I would go with

                                                                               Kelly

                                         O'Donnell    Mugabi     Lammie     Carroll

                                               McGinn  Spittal    Slattery    Goss

                                                             Shields     Efford

Sorry about the late reply to this post, but just stopped laughing at the thought of us relying on that team to get us through. Did you use your on Tombola :dontknow:

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We are 6/4 to qualify for the next round, as pish as we were last week that seems a bit generous given the difference between the two clubs overall.

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While I'm not confident due to how ineffective we were last week, and have been since December, it's still just a one goal deficit. That's just one deflected Barry Maguire shot (from either foot) or ricochet off Joe Efford. We would have expected to win the away leg before all this, and nothing has changed.

If we score in the last minute and scrape through via penalties, I don't care at this point. The embarrassment of going out will last longer than GA does.

Saying that, it looks like I won't be able to watch it because of work, so have fun.

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I must be one of the few who isn't really concerned about this game.

We've been down this road with Llanelli, where we lost 1-0 at home and went over there to win 3-0. I think we'll do the same again on Thursday. Couple of goals and through we go.

Or is it blind optimism? 

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On 7/25/2022 at 12:16 PM, Great Balls of Shire said:

think its the old thing of becoming a better player by not playing . i said before we had the worst full backs in spl, ga has addressed the rb position , but not the left.I would be for giving sod a chance at lb , it may work but he was a large part of the defensive problems last year. so on this one , i dont blame the manager

This comment is absolutely smack on the money.

"O'Donnell's critics go away when he has a good game" - I've seen games he's been ok - but I can't think of any games where he has stood out at all.  What position did he finish/how many points did he get in this forum for last year (perhaps on a per game basis?) - my gut says not many.

Seems a nice guy and wish him all the best but I'd certainly rather have McGinn.

 

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11 hours ago, Robbos boy said:

Sorry about the late reply to this post, but just stopped laughing at the thought of us relying on that team to get us through. Did you use your on Tombola :dontknow:

What was your selection again, go on let us know when youve used your wisdom or another tombola

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1 hour ago, David said:

I must be one of the few who isn't really concerned about this game.

We've been down this road with Llanelli, where we lost 1-0 at home and went over there to win 3-0. I think we'll do the same again on Thursday. Couple of goals and through we go.

Or is it blind optimism? 

Pretty sure we had more than 3 wins in 7 months though when we played Llanelli......

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10 minutes ago, Big Stall said:

Pretty sure we had more than 3 wins in 7 months though when we played Llanelli......

We had finished bottom six and got into Europe via fairplay so probably not much more. 

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