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Scottish Fitba


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I sat in the house tonight wondering whether to watch the game, listen to the radio or do something else, like put the chrimble decoration boxes up the loft. I'm picking and choosing my games now, with other commitments a season book isn't an option for me now, but if I did have one I'd probably have toddled down to FP tonight out of duty to that financial outlay.

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I have my season ticket for this season but I'll be putting it in the bin. I'll not be back...

 

Hard to put into words exactly why I suddenly feel like this. I was really looking forward to tonight's game, probably down to not having been at a game for a while. But as we went into injury time, I found myself having a wee look round and thinking "Thanks for the memories but I can do without this.".

 

The referee certainly didn't help. Two teams with players with very little or no skill trying to beat each other into submission. At one point in the first half, I turned to my mates and said "You know who I feel sorry for? The ball...". Standing in the freezing cold watching this unfold in front of me probably didn't help.

 

But I've seen games like this before (too many to mention). I don't know if it's simply after the lay off, my excitement going to the game raised my expectations too high and what I saw depressed me. We've lost games and played terribly before and it's never bothered me. Even after that final game of the Malpas season, I never doubted I'd be back. I think maybe because it seemed obvious to me something could be changed to improve my enjoyment of going to Fir Park. If it was announced tomorrow that Guus Hiddink was taking over and making Lionel Messi his first signing, I don't even think that would see me rushing back. Just don't see any point in watching Scottish football anymore.

 

All I know is that as I walked along the road tonight, I tried to envisage when I'd go back. Even thinking about the semi final doesn't interest or excite me.

 

Maybe I'll feel different in the morning. Put simply. I've had enough. I'll always be a Motherwell fan. But I think I'm going to become one of those who simply checks the result on a Saturday at five o'clock...

 

Melvin, that was a great post and I understand your frustrations. Being a lifelong fan myself, albeit that I've been overseas since 1995, what scunners me is the guaranteed OF winning the SPL and the fact there was less than 3,500 at the 'Ark tonight. I used to write letters to the Motherwell Times years ago trying to encourage people to go to our games and then we would have had 6,500 but tonight was a shocker as far as Lanarkshire proving they don't care. So I understand your despondency but don't know the answers. Makes me fear for the future though as far as our Club is concerned.

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This is the 2nd season I haven't had a season ticket due to lack of funds.

 

Last season I was picking games and to be fair attended most home games.

 

This season, I haven't had the luxury of being able to even pick and choose games due to work. Getting home late on a Friday night to head back down South on a Sunday has meant that I have had too much to do on a Saturday to get to a game. The last game I was at, we were still in Europe.

 

I have been in this situation before when I used to be a chef and not getting weekends etc free but I longed to be at a game.

 

Here we are less than year on from a classic game at Fir Park against Hibs and to be honest I ain't missing it that much. Working in Glasgow I had the opportunity of being there last night and the missus was shocked that I didn't go.

 

There's just something that I couldn't put my finger on but towards the end of last season I was thinking there was other things I could be doing on a Saturday afternoon and that was with us going well.

 

It needs more than taking us to 10 team league to reinvigorate the Scottish game. Maybe it's time to make the referees professional as well. It's definitely time for clubs to realise that in the current financial climate they can't attract fans back by dropping the odd game to £5, they need to reduce the price across the board. The managers need to realise that they need to be more committed to playing football than lumping it or putting 10 men behind the ball. The chairmen need to realise that those Scottish managers on the dole are not necessary the best option just because they don't have to pay compo.

 

The fans also need to know they can enjoy themselves without over zealous stewards spoiling it BUT the fans need to know that they are responsible for their own actions and how they affect others. In other words self policing for the idiots with smoke bombs.

 

Only then will we see an increase in numbers, may not be big numbers but should be able to pull some fans back.

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I was going to counter there that we're probably at rock bottom in those terms when you look at recent attendances. Those that are left are those who will always go. But previosuly I would have said I probably come into that category and I've had enough so I s'ppose everyone has their breaking point...

 

Likewise, and I wasn't there last night. To be honest I was in my house with my season book sitting in a drawer about 15 feet away from me and the game on the telly. Whats more worrying is...I wasn't even really paying attention to it.

 

Scary times for a 16 season veteran of week-in week-out, home and away attendance.

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Tremendous thread - obviously not uplifting in any way but I agree with what Bop, Sieb and Burn Broomfield etc are saying.

 

First - referees - By fuck we've had terrible luck with refs this year. i'd give my right goolie to see one of our games reffed by one of the guys you see in charge of a Championship game down south. I've always been impressed with what I've seen in their live games. Bottom line is consistency and letting the game flow.

 

We've got some really petty wee men in charge of our games that blow up for everything - and I don't know why - but there's always an imbalance. in games I've seen involving other teams live on the telly (as well as ours)- it's the same pish - constantly stopping the game and no matter what match - they always appear to punish one team more heavily than another.

 

Dallas and the SFA are to blame - they set the standards and the criteria for decision making. The most urgent thing that the SFA need to do as of today - is sit these insignificant wee fuckers down and tell them that the game belongs to the people and the people want to see a fucking game and they need to start, as of now, letting the ball / game of football flow otherwise they'll be reffing hee-haw in front of hee-haw people.

 

This might seem a bit hefty but - we need to get Gordon Young to fuck as soon as possible. The finding of a replacement manager is urgent. I'm not saying 'just get anybody'. I'm just saying we need to get it done (although I'm sure Boyle is on it).

 

I heard pre match the I'll just be keeping things the same way as Craig had it and I heard his toothless interview afterwards where he was totally OK with the ref performance. I don't give a fuck if he was trying to take the Craig brown approach or not - and I know that speaking out achieves hee haw in changing the result of the game. But 3000 of us either paid for a season ticket or paid at the gate and we want him to fuckin let rip. Do it for us and don't be fuckin spineless. You've made your mind up you're not going for the job - so tell it like it is - no need for tact and diplomacy.

 

Bottom line is he doesn't want to be there and on top of that he changed fuck all in the way that we played. When the fuck will someone realise that allowing our defenders to punt it aimlessly just invites on pressure - because generally that's where teams have managed to get an upper hand on us at Fir Park this season. Hibs, Aberdeen, Accies and now Hearts have mopped up everything we punted up to them. He had the opportunity to play it the way we did against St Johnstone (or in a style of his own - fuck it even in the style of McGhee - or better still Gordon Young's U19s) and he didn't. He just allowed Craig's hallowed XI to go out and continue to play the way that's got us into bother. And by the way IF you are gonna play that way - why is Sutton on the bench - Oh wait a minute that's what Craig done.

 

I know most of you hate Gannon. but I fuckin loved it when he came racing out the dug out to Craggs and screamed at him to keep it on the fucking deck.

 

Anyway - the ultimate bottom line is that the games on it's knees. We have refs who want to be the stars. We have football that favours big physical teams over football teams in terms of decisions during a game. it's indefensible and totally unbelievable.

 

There were no winners last night - and although I think we were wronged by the ref, i don't think we deserved anything either.

 

It's just pish

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Quite worrying reading through this thread.

 

I have had my season ticket for a few years now and unfortunately due to funds it might have to be my last for a few years.

 

However if money wasnt an option I would definitely be buying another. Last night was shocking and agreed scottish football is a state of almost disrepair, but even in times like this we should be rallying round the club. I know it is frustrating as fuck and I did feel the same way coming home from last nights game, but after some reflection I dont think I could ever walk away. The club need the fans no matter what the state and at worrying time like this they need us more than ever. If in 10 years time we are lingering in the 2nd or 3rd division I still couldn't walk away.

 

Through thick and thin !!!

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Just as an aside to your comments on Gordon Young, does anyone think we'd have got a better deal from the referee had Craig Brown still been in charge? Or had a manager in who wasn't simply a head of youth development, someone whose interview might have been listened to a bit more?

 

Just that you suggested Gordon Young could have "let rip". Even if he had, would it have registered? He's only Gordon Young. I don't mean any disrespect by that, just how it would have been seen by the media...

 

I said this to a few people on the way out of the game last night but forgot to mention it on here...

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I hate to break up this collective depress-in. I think we have a lot to look forward to as Well fans. We have a new manager to look forward to and no doubt some new players to follow. We have some exiting young players already in the first team and others ready for breakthrough. We are in the semi final of the LC against a very poor Rangers team. We are challenging for Europe. On our day we play some of the best football in the SPL (even other fans say this). Yes Craigan is a bit hump and hope but he is an honest guy.

 

I do agree the standard of referreeing is piss poor but this has been the case for many a year.

 

I think this is a time to rally to the club and not walk away (I know easy for me to say up in Aberdeen) but if we do the downward cycle will continue as the club will have less cash to invest in the team.

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When you've been deprived of a game of football by inept referees (on instruction of the SFA) and physicality winning over skill then you feel is if you've had your hard earn nicked out yer pocket and you've wasted your time and energy getting to the game. When it feels like it's happening every week.

 

The SFA, refs and c***s like Jim Jeffries need to be reminded it's a fucking SPECTATOR sport and the charge us money to watch it.

 

I'm not about to walk away right now (although I have lost the bug in the past and have returned) but I agree with every word spoken.

 

Folk who attend every week are at their wits end with the game. it'll never be the EPL - but by fuck it could be better than it is.

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Just as an aside to your comments on Gordon Young, does anyone think we'd have got a better deal from the referee had Craig Brown still been in charge? Or had a manager in who wasn't simply a head of youth development, someone whose interview might have been listened to a bit more?

 

Just that you suggested Gordon Young could have "let rip". Even if he had, would it have registered? He's only Gordon Young. I don't mean any disrespect by that, just how it would have been seen by the media...

 

I said this to a few people on the way out of the game last night but forgot to mention it on here...

 

I don't think the ref's performance would have changed Melvin - we've seen similar vs Hibs and Hamilton to name two games under the wee gent.

 

And I know that letting rip would not have registered - but when I was in the car driving back home it just pissed me off that he had NOTHING to say on it. I'm not looking for it to register anywhere other than on anybody tuning in on the way home or had been listening to the match.

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When you've been deprived of a game of football by inept referees (on instruction of the SFA) and physicality winning over skill then you feel is if you've had your hard earn nicked out yer pocket and you've wasted your time and energy getting to the game. When it feels like it's happening every week.

 

The SFA, refs and c***s like Jim Jeffries need to be reminded it's a fucking SPECTATOR sport and the charge us money to watch it.

 

I'm not about to walk away right now (although I have lost the bug in the past and have returned) but I agree with every word spoken.

 

Folk who attend every week are at their wits end with the game. it'll never be the EPL - but by fuck it could be better than it is.

 

I understand your frustrations and I have been there in the past. However, supporting the Well was never meant to be easy. Scottish football is going through a bad patch and some teams (Hearts/Dundee Utd) are just lump it teams and this does nothing for attendances. However we can and do play better football than that it is just when it does not come off (like last night) we look disjointed.

 

However, there is no escape you are in it for life :thumbup:

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I hate to break up this collective depress-in. I think we have a lot to look forward to as Well fans. We have a new manager to look forward to and no doubt some new players to follow. We have some exiting young players already in the first team and others ready for breakthrough. We are in the semi final of the LC against a very poor Rangers team. We are challenging for Europe. On our day we play some of the best football in the SPL (even other fans say this). Yes Craigan is a bit hump and hope but he is an honest guy.

For me, it's not about where Motherwell are right now, it's about Scottish football as a whole. As I said earlier, if it was about the level of performance or the situation at Motherwell, I'd have walked away during Malpas's season in charge.

 

I, and apparently others feel the same way, am just fed up with the whole shooting match. And I feel guilty for not "rallying round the club". Which is kind of ridiculous in itself and probably explains a great deal how football has got itself in this mess. People feel obliged to part with their hard earned cash for what is a hobby. People believe "the club needs the money". So does any singer you like but if they start producing crap all the time, you stop buying it (and again here, not talking specifically about Motherwell, more the Scottish Football product in general). As others have said, it's a spectator sport but it relies too heavily on people's loyalty and inability to desert the club they love...

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For me the problems really started at the Accies game. They scored in 20 miniutes and then proceeded to stop any form of entertainment by pretending to be injured and time wasting.

Then we had Mr Sincerity himself shafting us. I am sure some of the tech wizards could put up interviews where he said he did not need a contract as he was here till Motherwell did not want him, he was loving it so much and it was his last job in football.

Then we had last night. One team, us, clearly hadn’t played for weeks, the other were a big physical lot who set out to bully us off the park. There was no skill on show. Then there was the ref.

In 50 years of watching football it’s the first time I’ve seen a player tackling someone taking a free kick getting away with it.

The ref had no clue and as for the East Stand linesman he looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

 

For me football is a habit. I used to go to 90% of away games. Then I stopped going to Aberdeen, then Ibrox and Parkhead, then Dundee became too far.Last season I went to one away game, Hamilton.

Now my other half asks during the week are Motherwell at home this week. She knows that if they are away we will do something together.

 

For the first time in 20 years I am considering not buying a season ticket next year.

If I don’t I know the habit will fall away and I will become another lapsed supporter.

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Scottish football is completely dead not kidding.

 

I hate to sound so pessimistic, I still love going to the games, home and away, as that’s the way am wired, and gets me out of the shopping.

 

No atmosphere - Nothing exciting on the park, sitting and not standing, poor stewarding. These are all killing the atmosphere in the grounds.

 

Value for money - Home or away is to expensive to get in, but what a grudge most is the cost at the pie stands so so expensive, programmes are now £2.50 and so on...

 

Refs - I understand they are there to do their jobs, however, simply not good enough. Enough said.

Players - On the face of it sometime don’t even seem to try so why should I

 

Just fed up with it all - I don’t have any spare cash to pay a fortune to go to the football every week and just fed up caring

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Scottish football is very near the edge of a cliff right now. These are the main issues for me:

 

Cost: Its far too expensive. How can the quality of the game go down, but the price go up?

 

Quality: Too many teams in Scotland play awful negative tactics and lump it up to a big man so teams that want to play it on the deck get steam rolled. Its dreadful to watch. This means people won't come back. We have a system in Scotland where size and brute force is rewarded but skill and vision is thrown out into the bin. See Kevin Kyle and Alan Gow as a perfect example of this. What one of them has more chance of a Scotland cap?

 

Referees: They have lost it totally. I say we get rid of them all and just bring in forgien refs. From what I heard all the ones that came over were excellent and let the game flow. Last night was a perfect example of how to ruin a game. Legit tackles punished, incosistent bookings, missing key issues in the game, linesman offering no help, petty attitude and above all a desire to be at the centre everything. In my book a refree should almost be invisble.

 

TV: People can now watch so much football on their armchair or at the pub. They can watch the EPL, La Liga and Italian Football with ease. So if you are used to this and then pop along to a Hamilton v Dundee Utd match and pay 22 quid for the privelage then I doubt you will ever come back.

 

Media: The scottish sports media is bollocks and all they do is focus on the Old Firm to sell papers and brush over everything else. Jennings red card a perfect example. It has got has got a couple of lines in the match report of most papers. If it was lets say Lee McCulloch that got the red card then it would get pages and pages of discussion and be a main issue on every phone in show for weeks.

 

Atmoshpere: No fans equals a shit atmosphere as does poor stadiums, selling overpriced food and drink then add onto that over zealous stewards then you have a recipie for disaster.

 

I give it another 2 or 3 years in this state before it all fall apart.

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Some excellent posts on this thread. Melvin Bragg has made some very accurate comments that sadly reflect my own feelings. I don't think it can be seen as some sort of misguided nostalgia either. I went with my 2 brothers to almost every game home and away for almost thirty years and saw far more mince than silky football. Was the same every summer, would the 'bug' kick in again and would we renew our season ticket. It never failed and we always did. A few years ago one brother stopped going. This season the 2nd one announced that not only was he not renewing, he wasn't bothered about going at all. To date he has made only the Tynecastle match. This was a guy who went everywhere. Now I'm starting to feel the same, partly financial I suppose but a bigger part is boredom. I don't even know who 90% of opposition players are because who can be arsed watching Sportscene or any Scottish Sky match that doesn't involve Motherwell. The quality isn't great, the stadia are boring and I think the whole Sat/Sun/ 12,1,2,2.15 whenever the games go ahead thing doesn't help. After all that I'm still planning to go for the moment but I am getting close to packing it in. I would be curious to hear what some of the younger folk on here think and if folk are genuinely enjoying still going then brilliant.

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Scottish fitba has been dying for years.

 

With regards Motherwell, my life revolved around Motherwell for over 15 years. Sadly though, my interest in the last few years has diminished albeit there have been a few occasions such as Nancy to get my back in the mood. No matter how hard I try however I can't sustain an interest over the course of a season.

 

Society has changed, most of my pals and work colleagues don't bother following their teams anymore and it has inevitably rubbed off on me.

 

What keeps me interested to an extent is that I like to keep a close eye on developing talent and Scotland prospects. Ironically at a time when the quality of football is so poor we actually have some really good quality at our disposal. It saddens me to say in but the sooner the likes of Templeton & Murphy follows the route of Dorrans & co, the better.

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One of the best threads on here for a long time.

 

Financial situation has stopped me from going to games in the last 3 seasons. I always like to go to at least one home and one away game a season and I will again this season.

 

I agree with the majority of the posters. Scottish football is finished as a spectator sport unless something drastic happens. Overpriced , over jelous stewards, shite refereeing , No skill , Boring seeing Ra**ers or C**tic winning the league every season.

 

Scottish football need to take a long hard look at itself . The spl / sfa / sfl needs a massive overhaul and things need to change from grass roots or i fear we will end up like the league of wales / Ireland before 2015 .

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I stood in the East Stand, 2nd section from the end towards the South Stand, last night and was bored out of my coupon. That end of the ground has in recent years been the only area of Fir Park with any sort of vocal backing for the players and in years gone by was always full. Last night, I arrived 5mins before kick-off and the place was empty and it never got much busier after kick-off. Their are a million reasons for why people are turning away from fitba'.

 

Price - People just can't afford £20+ to go to Fir Park anymore

Quality - it was fucking terrible to watch last night and has been countless times this season regardless of our league position

Treatment - stewards are, by and large, clowns. The all-seater rule being abolished would also be a positive step.

Atmosphere - when I was 1st starting to go to the games teh atmosphere at Fir Park was far better than it is just now, the only time we got behind the team last night was when the referee was acting like a tadger and even then it was negative chants (against the ref rather than positive ones to the team/players). Maybe I am being nostalgic about the atmosphere of old though?

Referees - that guy was an incompetent buffoon last night and teh fact that he isnt alone makes people turn off, whether or not his penalty decision was correct (I think it was rather soft myself) he got so much else wrong it was unreal - turning his back on a fk being taken, a fk given to Hearts because Jenno shouted at/'man-handled' him, his decision to send Jenno off, his general 'look-at-me-I'm-in-charge-of-this-gig' attitude, allowing Kyle to get away with what Kyle generally does get away with (including no booking for attempting to incite the 'well fans after scoring their dubious penalty), the failure to deal with Hearts diving (Templeman being worst offendor. I think we all realise that without refs we wont have a game but I reckon referees need to realise that they can't/shouldnt be centre of attention and that their insistence to be just that is having a negative effect on fans attitudes towards Scottish fitba' as a whole.

Opposition teams - I woudl suggest that we are a reasonably good team to watch and generally try to play the ball on the deck and with width (although last night we did play too many high balls) but this season I've despaired at the set-up of many of the team in teh league. Hearts, Dundee United, Accies, Aberdeen have all coem to Fir Park this season with the intention of stopping us play 'good football' rather than look to play a similar style themselves, which in turn would create a good spectical. I understand that teams play with different tactics depending on who they play and I understand that managers have to play to their strengths but teams like Hearts are having a negative effect on the quality of the product that at the end of the day the SPL are trying to sell. I can safely say that the Hearts team last night bullied us, and they were one of the biggest teams that I can remember seeing. I want to see good football, played on the deck and not lumped up to a big mutant liek Kevin Kyle.

Lack of Stability - this constant search for a manager is doing my fucking nut in, I want to see a manager come in and be with us for the long-haul and I'm sure that the lack of a 'permanent' manager will have a negative effect on not only our players but also our fan-base. If the man at the helm is constantly changing then what the fuck is the point?

SPL - this 'new' idea of going back to ten team league will drive more fans away also, I want radical change, I want to see a 16 team league, Summer Fitba play each other twice, have play-offs, not going back to a ten team league that was awful the last time.

 

So yes, I am scunnered not only with MFC but Scottish Fitba' as a whole, the SPL, the SFA and that bastard Craig Levein. Why do I still go, week-in week-out?

 

Loyalty - the reason that I am still going week-in-week-out is that I feel loyal to MY club, I would hate to see MFC in financial difficulties and its sort of ingrained in me to get along to FP at every opportunity. Out of a crowd of about ten of us, who went every week there were only 2 of us there last night, and he only went because I had a spare season ticket.

 

My weans - I am so cheesed off at the product that I am paying for just now that I am convinced that I wouldnt have a season ticket, if it wasnt for the fact that I have two sons that I am desperate to keep away from following 95% of the population in Bellshill and following Rangers or Celtic that I will continue to buy season tickets for them until they are old enough to buy them themselves.

 

When you look at the positives versus the negatives, it doesnt surprise me in the slightest that there were only 3300 at FP last night.

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Great thread. Must admit I though I would need my Tin hat when I said pretty much that it was game over for Motherwell this season for me in the other thread. Seems I am not alone!!

 

Like I said before, me and my mate have been picking and choosing for a while now, but probabally becasue we both live away from the shire. I have to treat football like a day out. Each to their own but how punters can leave the house, travel to FP, part with twenty quid at the gate, sit in silence on a freezing plastic pitch and watch young guys on £100,000 a year struggle to string 3 passes together and be home for 5 O' Clock and do this religiously every two weeks is beyond me now.

 

An away game, on the train with your mates getting lagered up and in the pub pre-match for a couple of hours will always be a different story!

 

Although we, for a while, have even been taking Motherwell out of this equation and just firing in other teams for somewhere to go! Going down to England you can stand at some grounds, enjoy a pint at half time and generally watch much better stuff. You can be in Newcastle in an hour and a half from Edinburgh, the magnificent stadium is right in the city centre and at half time you can sit in a lounge, sip a beer and watch the telly - talk about different gravy!!

 

Although, it is true that you don't even have to have anything on to take Motherwell's place these days. The popular culture of a 'Jeff Afternoon', sitting in a boozer with your pals with a coupon on, spending your £22 gate money on 6 pints or so is a fine way to spend a Saturday.

 

In all, Scottish Football is indeed fucked. If guys like myself and many on here just can't be arsed any more it needs revolutionised right now (yea like a 10 time league, haud me back!). Or, maybe we will all just merge in with the English or European leagues, either going to the odd games or being brainwashed by SKY and you favourite old Scottish team will end up being something you merely check in the paper.

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Your right about habit. I stopped buying a season ticket the season McLeish took over. At that time i felt the fun, excitement and quality on show at Fir Park had gone, and that i was better spending my money on my family. I did promise myself i would try to go to at least a few games. Initially, i managed that and then gradually i was lucky if i saw them twice a season, and eventually stopped all together. It's amazing how seasons pass by and you know what i lost all interest and did not miss it one bit. Only in recent seasons i rekindled the interest due to the original steelmen site and the passion the posters showed, but even then i picked which game i would attend. Now, i am probably back at the point where if i can go, i don't go and you know what i don't feel guilty about it. Motherwell FC and SPL/SFA have a duty to sell their product to me. But given recent events, and attitude shown be those in charge of game and i include the police and stewards, especially towards fans, i can't be bothered anymore. It's only a game, and there are plenty of other things i could do with my time. Sure, Motherwell FC will suffer, but they by association have contributed to the shambles that is Scottish Football.

Self preservation will stop any recovery, so we may as well, not bother trying to be positive.

Doom and gloom, perhaps, but can anyone else name a entertainment product where the punters continue to attend, given the total lack of quality, integrity, excitement and fun?

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"Football is pish- all footballers are dicks". Almost exactly 10 years ago, in January 2001, Alun Woodward of the delgados coined this phrase at a concert at The Fruitmarket. It was certainly prophetic.....

 

Trouble is, I've re-quoted this phrase via e-mail several times over the last few months.

 

There is so much wrong with the Scottish game at the moment.

 

The unpunished antics of Dr Death and Hannibal Lennon.

 

A betting inquiry where some Scouser has laid a bet of GBP500 that there is a red card in a Motherwell- Hearts game- at 10-1. Whoopy Do!

 

Declaring a game off five days before it is due to be played.

 

The FJW as manager of the national side; 4-6-0 and all that.

 

Strangely, the Brown/Knox thing doesn't actually bother me. The sheep are welcome to them.

 

I just can't see a way out of this. If I was living in Central Scotland, and a current season-ticket holder, I just couldn't renew next season.

 

But, folks- some good news: yet to hear anyone having a pop at state of the the pitch, this season! B-)

 

SD

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