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Turnbull was ignored at Motherwell. He could have played in our team at least 6 months earlier if not a year earlier but we were too busy playing hoofball. He was then ignored by Scotland U-21s when Campbell and Maguire were 1st picks as well as lesser players from other clubs. He then moved to Celtic and was given a cold shoulder by Lennon for half a season until, much like at Motherwell, the manager had no choice to throw him in as a desperate measure. Then after being Celtic's best player outshining guys like McGregor and Christie, he only gets picked for Scotland after injuries and squad extensions and even then doesn't get a single minute of football at the Finals. This is how we treat probably the most technically gifted footballer that the Scottish Premiership will produce from this generation of young footballers. The mentality of Scottish football FUCKING STINKS. The distrust of youth and talent (double so when combined) is why we are where we are.

Disagree. Put together a 5 minute highlight reel of why we went out and you'll have a couple of contributions from O'Donnell where he arguably could have done better alongside plenty from almost every other player on the pitch (who are all on 5/10 times his club wage) - the biggest culprits being our midfielders and forwards who missed plenty of half chances and a few absolute sitters that could have turned all three games in our favour. Likewise, put together a highlight reel of positive passages of play and chances created and you'll have O'Donnell playing his part there.

An unfashionable Club such as Motherwell have two players and a former Academy player in the first Scottish squad to reach a final in decades. And yet all that some on here want to do is decry the performance of one of our players that played in every match, bemoan the level we are at as a Club and talk down the level of Scottish football in general. Sad. In fact, pathetic. The future of the national side is rosier than it has been for years, if Clarke is brave and determined enough to trust the youth coming through to support established players like Tierney, Robertson, McGinn and McTominey. And as a Club we were better represented than clubs with much better resources than us. Something to be proud of.

Polworths mrs is going to be living the high life in kilmarnock.

A touching tribute for Andy P from steelmenpins

Been like that for a while if you ask me. Poor imitation nowadays of a once very good forum. First sense of disagreeing with someone very often leads to arguing / personal insults. Pretty embarrassing from some posters to be honest.

Lawless clearly has something about him, top six with Thistle and top six with Livi where he was one of their better players. His record would suggest he’s far from shite and more a very capable Premiership level player.

Is shite an option?

I'm desperate to see us succeed, but he needs to start beating teams bigger than Cyprus, the Faroes, Kazakhstan and San Marino. Then I'll start believing, not dreaming. One or two big results against Denmark and Austria would prove we're moving forward and not just flattering to deceive because this squad were given second or third chances to qualify others weren't. I honestly don't know what level you think Motherwell are at. We recruit from lower/non league teams in England now, generally speaking, and if we qualify for Europe, we're out as soon as we face a side of any quality. As a Well fan, I'm happy to see our players get recognition. When I put my Scotland hat on, it's obvious they'll struggle against top nations, because our 'stars' struggle against them.

Personally, I would say that there's as much chance of that as there is success from an Ernie Walker / Henry McLeish style "Think Tank"...!

Maybe combative isn't the word. I'm very concerned that we need to fill a Campbell shaped hole and I don't believe that O'Hara, Donnelly and especially Crawford are up to it.

I was one of the first posters on the AndyP thread, I couldn't take it in at first a we'd been speaking so freely the day before. The African summed up my feelings in a particularly eloquent post. Where my own had none, his echoed where I was in a thread that must can only be a comfort to his family. Today it was announced in that thread that poster Madwullie also passed away. I initially thought a mere "that's sad" not recalling much interaction with him on here. As the thread progressed and it was revealed that Madwullie had a real name beyond his avatar as we all do, and it was one that was familiar, very familiar. Of course you want to check things and make sure you're not jumping the gun, however growing sense of foreboding hit me like a juggernaut as I searched P&B where his posting was more prolific. Graeme was for about 3 or 4 years was my closest childhood friend. I'd have sleepovers at his house, his bedroom a loft conversion that I mimicked in my own place years later. His mum serving pizza's still cold in the middle for week upon week because she didn't notice there were two oven cooking times, defrosted and from frozen. He didn't want to upset her so we ate it grim as it was on beyond the second chomp from the crust. Playing John Madden NFL and I recall hearing the roar from FP through his open velux window that carried further at night in the dark. I recall us both as 14 year olds getting the giggles in the back of a car getting run home when another friends dad lost it with his son. Trying to stifle our laughter made the Dad's behaviour even more erratic, FYI it is possible to get to 60mph along Cameron Street before you have to break at Hamilton Road .... just. We drifted when he went to Braidhurst and I went to Dalziel but were in the BB's together and were part of a group of 4 that went all the way from Bronze to Gold Duke of Edinburgh. At 15 doing the Bronze we got disorientated and lost in the Ochils in 10m visibility and horizontal rain. We followed our training and erected our tent and got in, started blowing a whistle 6 times a minute as protocol. It of course was far too soon, one of our friends broke down and started crying for his mum. Graeme and I again stifled our laughter while cooried in our sleeping bags but the friend must have seen our shoulders bouncing and the whistle blows descend into a series of squeaks as it was impossible to purse lips. I went to Strathclyde and Graeme to Glasgow, he opted for a different social scene to me I'd sometimes see him other than the melee at 16:50 in the streets outside FP and we'd nod and exchange banal small talk. We engaged meaningfully for the first time in about 10 years in the dentist's waiting room about 4 or 5 years ago. We discussed playing golf (with the guy who cried for his mum, I'm still close to him and owe him more for different reasons than I can convey on here). Graeme was incredibly quick witted, playful, mischievous, inventive, well read and coined many a catchphrase. I gravitated towards him because there would always be a laugh. He would roast you if you ever did, wore or said something worthy of it. But he never doubled down, once you got it he ensured the group moved on to someone else to everyone got their fair share. One of the side effects of my coma is I've oddly became more emotional, I've been pretty stoic in life till now having had to deal with a lot of loss myself. I have been "semi" fortunate that my losses have all been from those older which, in life, is expected. This is the first person from my peer group that I know has passed and it is very sobering. This news just hit me for six. I think it emphasises that Carpe Diem is good mantra to adopt but it only has pertinence if you actually engage in it. I wish I arranged that game of golf as much as I am angry I didn't walk across Fir Park Road to recognise the man I was sure was Andy P (but not sure enough) to shake his hand and thank him for the favour he did me. I think it's fitting that this is my last post on here. A culmination of losing two well respected people and being subject to some cowardly behaviour by another individual hiding under the shroud of anonymity. Thanks to Yabba for his endeavours. For those of you who'd like to donate in his memory, Woody now has a Just Giving page started by those on P&B and it's already up over £2,000. Just Giving Page - Woody

He was. I can vouch for that. It’s a shame Hartwood disbanded when he was on the cusp of even greater things. Had been untold success until then.

I agree we will need to find goals to qualify. I just think we are closer to having a team that can compete than you appear to be given the players at our disposal. That is if Clarke wakes up, stops being swayed by reputation and the media, learns from the past couple of weeks and sets us up to win rather than avoid defeat. A big ask given his history and on top of that he has to be ruthless and look to the future. And the repeated SOD trashing by some on here for every (possible) error whilst intentionally ignoring good performances is just disgusting. He plays for a wee team in Scotland and represents us well. It's not like he is at Bayern, PSG or Real Madrid and you might think folks judgements would reflect that fact. Good debate though.

Gonna love seeing her spats with Gordon Sawyers

We should sign players with proven SPL experience. Not him though.

The St Mirren scout will be getting his jotters for missing that one.

OK who would you have in at right back for Scotland then apart from SOD with over 20 caps behind him in experience? Clarke brought on the new Maldini if you believe the blue uglies for a 10 min run out, do you seriously think Patterson with only a handful of 1st team games would have coped starting against any of the other 3 teams in the group, I think not. SOD was in the squad on merit, starting all 3 games on merit and coped very well one or 2 dodgy moments but generally a decent 3 games, and we're it not for a great save from Pickford he could have had he winner v England, so why don't you cut him some slack.

Can't we just get the tractor out and get a group photo of them in the one go?

If Turnbull had stayed at Fir Park he would have played all season and would very likely have been brought into the squad earlier than he was. That would have increased his likelihood of playing. Move to the Celtic and stay as you are, play for the ‘Well and be a superstar. Or something.

I really hope we address the Defence asap we need a a couple of centre backs at the very least right back and left back we are fine but central pretty weak in that position.

Academy systems that favour power & strength over technical ability won’t offer any help.

McGregor and Christie are far from finished. Both have been integral parts of our upturn in fortunes but sadly neither came into the tournament in good form. Hopefully Turnbull gets his chance soon enough but he presumably didn’t impress in training despite having a decent game against the Netherlands. I do think/hope Clarke will regret persisting with two non goalscoring strikers when Christie, Fraser, Forrest and Turnbull have all got what it takes to contribute in the final third. The long ball tactic needs to be put in the bin.

Be interesting to see if we retain S'OD. Personal view if he stays is push him further up field. He's more effective moving forward than in defence. For Scotland last night was as lesson on how to play football, retain the ball and do the basics well. We were punished for lapses in concentration and not having the required quality in all areas of the park. Thankfully we have some very decent young guns coming through and the future looks brighter.

I saw the comment as being tongue in cheek and more about the world we live in rather than disparaging the player. These days, you are only as good as your last twenty minutes of play, with only two options, great or grotty. Of course, I could be wrong.

Bollocks. But if it makes you happy.

Scotland are also playing.

Given how well that worked out for us I doubt it.

Thanks… I’ll flick through those economics books from my many Uni years and see if I can’t get to grips with simple deduction again.

that's a bit of a camp joke.

Tent Alexander-Arnold?