dennyc

I have enjoyed every overseas tie I have been at whether we have won or lost. Possibly because it is about the entire experience and not just the 90 minutes or so on the pitch. And that applies to whether it was Stjarnan or Dortmund, Levante or MyPa. And despite the result, I wish I had been lucky enough to visit Sligo. But you never answered my question. How did you feel in the build up to the games I mentioned, watching the game/highlights and reading the after match reviews? I find it difficult to believe that you did not enjoy any of it despite the inevitable outcomes. And all of that is without taking into account the financial rewards on offer at present, which you appear to dismiss as unimportant or irrelevant.

Nobody is saying that. But why can't we enjoy both? One is not exclusive of the other. May I ask, how did you feel watching us play in Dortmund all those years back, and at Nancy? Both games where we performed well and received plaudits despite playing teams that you would rate as out of our league and who we had no business playing. Games where our fans were lauded for the support they gave their team. Defeat probably inevitable but incredible occasions all the same. Would you deny us those moments? I'll take a match in Iceland any day over a trip to Annan. But as I said, why can't we enjoy both?

So if we were to finish third next season we should just refuse to take part in any European competition and tell Uefa to hand our guaranteed millions to some other more deserving cause? All because we will undoubtedly get well beaten at some stage and you would feel humiliated. Perhaps we should just refuse to play Rangers and Celtic as well just in case we get trounced and you get embarrassed. Or maybe Celtic should refuse to play in the Champions League to avoid getting their regular thrashing by the likes of Barcelona. You seem to have a strange take on what supporting a football team is likely to entail. For me the "lows" only serve to make the "highs" even more enjoyable. Looking forward to the European draw, speculating where we might end up and lapping up the excitement within Fir Park all rank as highs. Given the celebrations at Livi a year or so back when our European Tour looked to be a possibility I suspect most fans feel the same

Well said. And don't forget the fall back of a guaranteed Group place in the Conference if you fail to make the Europa Groups. As I said earlier, that route brought in over £5m for Hearts this season and Aberdeen will likely make even more next season when they finish third this time round. Yes, of course many of our fans look forward to to the away trips. Why shouldn't they? But for MJC to suggest that the majority of the fans are unaware or don't care about the potential financial rewards for our Club is insulting. Third place in this League.....and the European experience and income that entails....is possible. Or perhaps MJC wants to take even that ambition away from us. Football is meant to be fun, an escape from the crap that life can be at times, and a chance to dream. At least it is for most of us.

Thanks for bringing some reality to the European finance discussion. Hearts made £5 Million last year after dropping into the Conference Group stages following a loss in the Europa Cup at the first hurdle. And we made £450k as a direct result of qualifying at all. I'm also sure the £650k pay out Dundee Utd received for qualifying helped to lighten the embarrassment of losing 7-0 in the Netherlands. And that guaranteed £5m or so for finishing third without having to win any meaningful game once in Europe is why they sacked Nielson after a string of terrible results allowed Aberdeen to overtake them in the League.. So anyone saying we lose money by qualifying for Europe is talking nonsense. That might have been the case years ago. But not now, The embarrassment we endure on occasion is another matter.

Agree 100% with what you say. However I understand the proposal requires 51% agreement for it to pass, based on one Club one Vote. So it is unlike Premiership votes where two Clubs can join together and block change. So Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen require the support of another 18 Clubs to force the proposal through (if my arithmetic is correct). Unless the Spfl somehow manage to change the rules which I would not put past them. So this is one instance where Clubs have the chance to stand up and be counted. Whether they will is open to question. If the disadvantaged teams in the Premiership and Championship stick together then the change will require 18 of the Clubs in the two lowest two Divisions to vote Yes. Sadly, there is a chance that could be achieved if the financial incentives (bribery) and lessening chance of relegation (self interest) hold sway. I suspect phone calls are already being made and favours called in. Let's see how the vote works out and which way Motherwell go. Meantime, fans should let the Club know their views, whether for or against

I don't think Highland (SHFL) and Lowland (SLFL) League Clubs are Members of the SPFL But stand to be corrected. They are members of the SFA so can take part in the Scottish Cup which is managed by that body. But do not participate in the SPFL run League Cup. I read weeks ago that Highland and Lowland Clubs had objected to not being consulted or having a vote in a process that would lead to their progression to League Two being more challenging. Again, I stand to be corrected. However, if they were allowed to vote the proposal would almost certainly fail given their objections. The powers that be want to appease the big City Clubs, so that is likely what will happen unless enough Clubs like Motherwell stand together and vote it down. Don't hold your breath.

Oh I don't think it is about being overly competitive in the Conference for any of the chosen few. It is about giving them somewhere to play a number of players that would be sitting on their arses if nothing else was arranged before the Lowland League deal runs out. And don't forget there already is a Reserve league that certain Clubs declined to take part in. And it will not just be Youth players sitting on that bus. When details are revealed I doubt there will be any restriction on who the B Sides can field. Eg. 5 payers must be under 21. Will also be interesting to see if players can switch back and forward between B and Premiership squads outside of the transfer windows. The whole set up is open to abuse if restrictions are not put in place. Also, given the authority given for Conference League to generate commercial deals outwith any SPFL arrangements, it opens up lots of new opportunities for the rich to get richer and so widen that financial gap. BBC will be drooling at the possibility of televising certain B team games. Last few weeks it has been almost impossible to escape Rangers Celtic coverage. Premiership, Scottish Cup. Girlies, Youths. Championship clubs should be wary of a reduction in their coverage given other options that would open up elsewhere. " Shall we show Thistle v Morton or Rangers B v Aberdeen B?" kind of thing. Lots of questions our Board should be seeking clarification on before voting. And if any aspect threatens our own situation competitively or financially then we must oppose the plan. But I suspect we won't. Only enjoyable aspect would be the possibility of Hearts being relegated to the extent that they ended up playing their B side in the Conference. Or any sort of Rangers like demotion for any of the four that would have the same effect. Sadly, finances will ensure otherwise. Given we were asked our views about the Rangers demotion (or not) it will be interesting to discover if our fan owned Club seeks our views before coming to a decision. Hopefully Morton have shown the way.

Don't think the Highland and Lower League get to vote. If they did the proposal would never pass. SPFL Clubs only. Unless anybody can confirm otherwise. Division Two Clubs (possibly some Division One as well) will be tempted to vote for the proposal to put a safety net between themselves and Highland/Lower League oblivion. Plus they will get to play the big four at home at least twice a season in the Conference, which might provide a nice wee financial boost after relegation. Also in the small print the Conference are allowed to negotiate commercial deals separate from SPFL. Again a sop to Rangers and Celtic who I bet will broadcast the games to their stay at home fans as part of an increased monthly fee. And BBC Scotland will jump on board to broadcast anything Rangers v Celtic. So get prepared for TV coverage of Rangers and Celtic B teams. Essentially it is about bribing enough lower league clubs to support the proposal, thus outvoting the Premiership and Championship Clubs that will be weakened and so vote No. Whatever happens, it will be revealing to discover how our Board decide to vote.

Agree with all that has been said. No way should Motherwell support a proposal that has the potential to damage us financially and competitively. The Board have an obligation to act in the best interests of the Club and should not be bullied into backing a proposal that will undoubtedly strengthen four Clubs and weaken everybody else. Sadly I suspect it is a fait accompli and also that fans will have no say in what happens. This structure has been planned ever since Rangers, Celtic and then Hearts were allowed to enter B sides in the Lowland League. The financial gap that limits competition is about to get even wider. And more broadly, so much for Project Brave spreading talent across a much larger range of Clubs. I guess that ambition of establishing a more competitive balance has been abandoned.

First of all, I believe we will gather enough points to avoid any last game drama. And so does MJC by the tone of his posts. But looking at the remaining fixtures for Kilmarnock and Utd, anybody who is writing them off from winning three games minimum is kidding themselves. So we need at least one win. Both of them. like us, have been handed winnable home ties. County on the other hand need a miracle, being due to meet all three of us away from home. And St Johnstone will be in more danger than us if results pan out as expected. So we should be safe but it is far from guaranteed. It's in our own hands, we are playing well and with that home game against County as a fail safe I am fairly relaxed about our prospects. The sooner it is done and dusted the better though.

If we cannot get enough points given that we have home games against the bottom three teams, then we don’t deserve to stay up. It is in our own hands.

The earlier post By Toxteth where the interview was detailed in full captured the original quote re contract running out at end of this season. The official link to the article now reveals the amended, accurate information. Would not be surprised if Motherwell contacted the newspaper to point out their error. Certainly be in MFC's interest to set the record straight. Thought KVV was very respectful of Motherwell...and Celtic.....and came across well. If KVV and/or his Agent are actively seeking to cash in good luck to them. Given his age he has to look after his own best interests. His comments show that even if he does move on he hopes Motherwell are well recompensed. I can think of others who. in a similar situation, have been less considerate. Credit to him for that.

Don't know the ins and outs of the dawn raids mentioned but if they were later found to be unjust and vindictive then that is a disgrace that needs to be highlighted. If there is also an issue with one particular individual within Fir Park then that also should be addressed. As with with any dispute that will likely only be resolved through discussion and common sense being applied by all parties. So I simply ask if any moves have been made to try and arrange a meeting to move things forward? If an approach has been made and the Club have declined such a meet, then that too is unacceptable. That said, any compromise cannot include the Club being seen to condone criminal acts. As for fan behaviour. I remember not that long ago we were all up in arms when Celtic fans trashed Fir Park. The targets of our outrage included Stewards and Police for not taking immediate action and Officials of our Club who appeared reluctant to pursue matters with the football authorities and Celtic Football Club. Is it not a bit hypocritical therefore to condemn Police, stewards and our own employees when action is taken against our own fans for similar anti social behaviour. Be it within football grounds or surrounding areas during match day. Behaviour which, despite repeated denials from a few on here, has been witnessed and commented upon by many fans who attend away games. As for Motherwell passing information to the Authorities. Why shouldn't that be acceptable if the actions of some are damaging the standing of the Club and more seriously putting other fans at risk? Particularly if the Football Authorities are taking an interest. Surely our Board have a duty to act in the interest of the Club. Again liking it to the Celtic incident, there were plenty of folk asking for fans to be identified via CCTV and/or Celtic so that police action could be taken. And as someone posted earlier...if you break the Law don't be surprised if bad things happen. And no David, I'm not a level above most. I doubt whether there is anybody on this forum who has not found themselves in trouble one way or another. Certainly not me. But I don't recall threatening fellow Motherwell fans (fact) or trashing pubs(allegedly as I did not witness that in person). And pyrotechnics were not really a thing at football when I was a youngster. But that does not mean fans should turn a blind eye to what is happening. And commenting on what they or I see is not an attempt to "put others down and appear a cut above". It is about highlighting disgusting, dangerous behaviour by a few that will drive fans away from games and ultimately damage our Club.

Plenty of folk have enjoyed the atmosphere the lads generate and have recognised, praised and often contributed to their various displays and good causes. For what it's worth I do appreciate much of what they add to matches and I hope they continue to contribute. And I support their right to do so. But plenty of folk, me included, old folk and not so old folk, have also witnessed the types of incidents Robbos Boy mentions. From Kilmarnock to Paisley, from Dingwall to Kirkcaldy. Like you I have no foot in any camp. I don't know any of the Bois and I don't know any Club Officials or Police involved. I can only comment on what I have regularly witnessed and it appears to me that the so called "self policing" is not working. And sadly the incidents have been escalating. I don't usually agree with much that Robbos Boy comes up with, but on this occasion I think he makes a valid point. It may well only apply to a small minority within the group, but to suggest that The Bois do not go too far at times and to palm off any criticism as older fans with an axe to grind is nonsense. But if you truly believe that incidents in the places I mentioned or that Robbos Boy highlighted did not occur, were exaggerated or were just high jinx, then so be it. I know what I have seen and heard and I fear it is only a matter of time until someone is seriously hurt.. I do hope the Bois can resolve the issues they have with some employees of Motherwell FC and also which I believe exist within their membership. That should then result in less confrontations with Police, Stewards and fellow Motherwell fans. There definitely appears to be plenty of good people with commendable intentions within the group. Fir Park especially and grounds throughout Scotland would be the worse off for their absence.

Perhaps he does not fancy the abuse or threats that go the way of those that dare to speak up at games.

And Jack Hendry withdraws. A player his Club had declared injured several weeks ago and who has not played since. So when it suits Clarke he selects injured players and those lacking game time, but when it also suits he uses injuries and lack of game time as reasons for not picking players. No Shankland ...or Taylor....for those reasons but let's include Hendry and Gilmour, and now Celtic's third choice full back. Somebody, somewhere should be asking Clarke what is going on with his squads and not accepting his nonsensical reasoning.

No doubt he will be frustrated at getting less game time than he thinks he merits. His career was stalled again due to injury, suffered in that first League Cup Final. Might be a surprise to some on here, but that season he featured in every match under Ange right up until that final. I think he was the only player that managed that feat. Hardly the history of somebody that made the wrong transfer choice. He will be a much better and mature player now than when he left us and in my opinion more able to adapt to everything a move to England entails .....if that happens....than he would have been 3 years ago. Of course he might have been a roaring success had he headed South instead of opting to remain up here. But we will never know. In a football sense I wonder if Billy Gilmour wishes he had matured a little before moving to Chelsea? His career isn't exactly taking off right now. In fact it appears to be in decline.

As opposed to playing in the Championship for a team that has been in freefall for three years. Or would Man City or Arsenal have snapped him up?

Blinkered nonsense. Based purely on who he signed for. Wonder how many important games he would have played in for Norwich following their relegation? Wonder how many medals he would have won? Wonder what his Bank Balance would be following a relegation wage cut and no winner bonuses? Wonder if he has improved being around top players and being managed by top coaches? He made the correct move for him at that time. And still has plenty of time to move South if he wants in the knowledge that he is now financially secure for life.

And you can add one...soon to be two.. League winner medals, one Scottish Cup winner medal and Two League Cup Winner medals. And still only 23 years old. Bad advice indeed.

In one of Ange's recent love ins with his media buddies, without mentioning names he referred to having no time for players who complain about not being selected. Since then Turnbull has sat on the bench watching every minute of every first team match. Turnbull being the player who had been brought on after 70 minutes or so and contributed goals and assists in a run of games leading up to those Ange comments. Admittedly looking on from the outside, but I do wonder if those comments were aimed at Turnbull. Although Forrest is another possibility. Hopefully he gets paroled soon and heads elsewhere.

I know this is Scotland and so it is a lottery regarding decisions during matches and the inevitable appeals. But if we accept that two qualified officials look at every potential red card and (eventually) agree on any outcome, you would think the VAR process would make the need for red card appeals redundant. If any are overturned then that suggests the panel have decided that two experienced Officials (at least) have got it entirely wrong. That surely raises bigger questions regards the competency of those Officials. I don't know what happens behind the scenes but I wonder if the reason for any overturn is discussed with those that are seen to have made an error?

Spot on. I would add that after the Raith debacle only two players came over to the goalmouth to acknowledge the fans ......the rest either stormed off or stood at the half way line looking embarrassed. Those two players who manned up were Tierney and Van Veen. And Van Veen was distraught. Hardly the actions of a man who had downed tools. Hammell brought about his own downfall and his approach to that match confirmed he had to go.

Strangely enough not one of the few folk determined to blame the Club have an answer to that question. But no matter. Burrows etc are to blame. That suits the agenda. I don't recall all this fuss when McKinstrey left for Leeds, or McAlear for Norwich. Disappointed that we were, talk then was all about whether we had sell on clauses and there was an acceptance that the Club could do no more than offer him terms and try to negotiate a deal with their new clubs. Ramsay and Hickey signed contracts at Aberdeen and Hearts because when their contract discussions were taking place no "bigger" Club came in for them. If Liverpool and Bologna had been interested at that stage then let's agree those Scottish contracts would not have been signed. Sadly for us, Johnston is about to be out of contract and bigger Clubs ARE interested. That's a huge difference and takes control out of Motherwell's hands. Perversely Motherwell might actually have had a better chance of retaining him if he had not been recalled and put on show for the likes of Bologna. But it all comes down to the question that David posed. How do you make a player sign a Contract? If he is as confident of his future as Johnston appears to be and from a football family, would that player not stall until the last possible moment to see if better options come up? We are only Motherwell after all. In the knowledge that he always has the offer from his parent club to fall back on as a last resort. He could also use that outside interest to negotiate better terms if he preferred to stay for whatever reason. Why sign away all the power before you have to? I certainly would delay as long as possible and I believe most folk would as well. The players hold all the aces.