dennyc

The point you conveniently ignore is that over the past five seasons our three new strikers have scored a total of around 15 goals (Obika), 30 goals (Wilkinson) and 8 goals (Bair). So unless we see a dramatic uplift from them, we can look forward to a total contribution of 10 goals per season from our entire strike force. With a young kid who has potential but is a long way from being first team ready, and who has yet to score, as the alternative. Either that or midfielders played out of position. That is worrying and fans are justified in expressing concerns. (How they express those concerns is another matter.) I agree the players should not be written off before they get an extended chance to prove themselves and Kettlewell has also earned some leeway. You mention goals from elsewhere, so lets hope that Slattery, Spittal and a seventeen year old Miller (if he can avoid burnout) contribute at least ten goals apiece. The career history of our new recruits suggests we are going to need them. Compare those players' track records to those of Van Veen, Moult (unknowns in Scotland when they joined), Higdon and Sutton who each had enjoyed 20 goal seasons in their career before coming to us. . That downturn in the quality of strikers we are signing may well be down to finances but it only adds to the concerns that those fans not wearing blinkers are expressing. And, sorry, but it's not up to Steelboy to identify the next van Veen or Moult. That's down to our recruitment team although in fairness they may well be hamstrung by the level of wages we are prepared/able to offer. I firmly believe there are decent players out there, it is offering them a strong enough package to join us that is the problem. But let's be honest. Throughout the League Cup, the performance of our strikers has been far from the level we will require when the League season starts. Lacking in pace, disjointed as a unit, poor in the air and apparently far from reliable when presented with decent goal scoring opportunities. Early days, but that has to change. So far our midfield has carried the team but is it realistic to expect that to continue throughout an entire league season? I don't agree with a fair bit of what Steelboy comes away with....especially looking at his obsession with certain players and former staff...but he has a point in this case. Troll or not.

I have no ideas regards team selection of our opponents but strangely I find myself agreeing with Steelboy. Clearly no cause for panic, but our inability to score goals and our defending in Dumfries may well lose us a seeding in the next round. And that is likely to have a huge impact on our progress to the money making ties. Having attended every match so far I would award us pass marks because of the points gathered but no more. Performances have been adequate but no more. Yes there are reasons for that as you indicate but we will have to improve and I am sure we will. But the current squad is lacking. It was worrying for me that we started at Dumfries with the majority of those defenders that got us into the mess we were in at the start of last season. In fact, the only one that perhaps performed during that spell was rested. Kelly. And I accept that Kettlewell needs games to assess players. A different formation granted and a more tactically aware manager also a bonus. But we definitely have work to do

I don't think anyone other than you has raised the question of either of those players being regarded as bigger than the Club. And the players certainly have said or done nothing to suggest they think that way either. What most fans recognise is that both players contributed greatly to our Club and added to Motherwell FC on and off the pitch. Not that many players past and present have contributed to the extent they have. Unlike a sad, few, fickle fans on here I would be delighted if Moult rattles in 30 goals this season, no matter who he scores them for and as long as they don't contribute to a defeat for us. I think that after his run of terrible injuries he deserves some good fortune. Many less determined players would have given up by now. Credit to him for that. I don't really think he will score those goals but I wish him well. And my take on both players attempts to continue playing for us is that most fans were desperate for them to do themselves credit, but nobody was screaming out for them to get more game time when it was clear they were not fit and therefore not contributing to the team. In fact it was extremely depressing watching them try their utmost but fall short. Both were punts worth taking, but punts that did not work out. Maybe that does not suit your storyline but it is reality. But here is a question for you. Given he is only 31, and if Moult comes through the entire season injury free and scores upwards of 15 league goals for Utd would you entertain his return next season at age 32? Won't be an option of course, because if he does prove the doubters wrong, then Utd will extend his contract and he will likely be back at Fir Park wearing their colours.

Sam Campbell is one we should have high hopes for. Liverpool and Leeds were fighting over him as a sixteen year old and he did well on trial with Liverpool. A deal was said to be well advanced, with Motherwell reaching agreement with three English clubs. It was up to Sam to make a decision. Sadly, before a deal was completed he suffered a serious injury and so his progression stalled. After carefully working his way back he is once again coming to the fore. Personal choice, but I would rather he stayed in our first team squad for now rather than going out on loan. This is one player we need to be cautious with and keep under our direct control. If he is back to anywhere near his pre injury form we will be on to a winner. I am also pretty sure the likes of Liverpool will be monitoring his return. I understand he is only on a short term contract at the moment so including him in our match day/first team squad might encourage him to sign on for a bit longer. We are allowed a huge number of bench players nowadays so there is scope. In the League anyway. I would certainly rather invest in him than retain all our other centre backs, particularly as Casey has opted to return. Butcher when fit, Casey, Blaney, Campbell, Mcginn as an option, with one of Lamie, Mugabi would be my choice for that role.

If I read Ya Beezer correctly. it is not a question of bringing in players that are sure to be a success. Given our finances that is almost impossible to guarantee. Every signing is a gamble but more so when funds are tight and choices need to be made. The concern is the repeated erosion in the quality of the squad year on year. That has been going on for some considerable time. Sadly it is a fact of life and must be tough for the Board to oversee. Just compare like for like over the seasons. Eventually that erosion takes it's toll and a team ends up in the situation we were in before Kettlewell arrived. Others have experienced similar. It's inevitable even with the odd outstanding youngster coming through. To a degree we were fortunate that the real possibility of relegation was recognised by the Board who loosened the purse strings through necessity, and so the likes of Butcher and Casey were recruited to rescue the situation. Danzaki I will gloss over. KVV turning into Superman was huge as well.. That's my take on it anyway. On the plus side, other teams have had to go down that exact same route. So that has helped us keep ahead of some. Just compare St Johnstone, County and Kilmarnock's current squads with those of recent years. Even Livingstone and St Mirren have down graded year on year. Unless you have a massive fan base or a rich benefactor or both then the die is cast. And when the benefactor cuts back as per Killie and County, even that comfort is reduced. We have neither and the indications of late are that every penny is a prisoner. I have no doubt more players will be brought in before the window closes. But given that the KVV monies were quoted by the Board as " securing our mid to long term future" and given comments that players we wished to retain were offered deals elsewhere that we chose not to match, I do not anticipate we will be anywhere near the side we were at the end of last season. Cut backs in non playing staff also hint at careful financial management. Lennon Miller and Sam Campbell are youngsters with a great future but in reality it is too much to expect them to impact the team massively at this stage in their career. Unless Wilkinson can replicate KVV's contribution I fear we may well require another rescue act come January. I will be delighted if proven wrong.

There were two compensation schemes introduced after Bosman to reward teams that develop players who ultimately move on. 1. Training/ Development Fee to compensate for developing players who move on with no transfer fee. So Max Johnston. To be split between all clubs who have developed a player (Dean Cornelius - Hibs and Motherwell) and is calculated on a standard formula devised by the football authorities. When the player moves on from the parent Club there is no transfer fee. Hence the need for compensation. I think this only applies up to the season of a players 23rd birthday. 2. Solidarity Payment to reward a developing club where a player is transferred between different associations (Scotland/England/Europe) for a transfer fee. Applies at any age. 5% of the transfer Fee is set aside and dispersed amongst all previous clubs who have developed a player up to a certain age (21???) The more you dig, the more confusing it gets. Two different schemes that have similarities and which both reward teams for developing youngsters. The main differences being whether or not there is a transfer fee and whether there is an age restriction applied. My understanding re Max J is that we are due the standard training/development fee unless we negotiate a different fee with say a 20% future transfer add on. If Max does move to Sturm Graz and is later transferred outside of Austria for a fee, then we would be due a Solidarity payment deducted automatically from that transfer fee. Note that if he were transferred within Austria we would be due nothing. I would imagine that if we negotiated a 20% add on, then that Solidarity Payment potential would be superseded. That would make sense.

The Development Fee scheme was introduced to provide a guarantee that clubs who invested in youth were not left with nothing when bigger clubs came calling. But the Development Fee is really a minimum guarantee. Unless the player signs on to a team from an Association that has not yet entered the Scheme. Think Cadden to The States. Clubs can come to an agreement to dispense with the standard Development Fee and instead negotiate a reduced fee with specific add ons included. The new club benefit by paying out less up front and the former club hope that any add ons will in time generate substantially more income than the fee reduction. A future big money transfer being the jackpot. If the switch is made under the basic Development Fee arrangements, then it is a once and for all payment with no future income benefits to the former club. There are pros and cons for each club whatever way the deal is done. For example. The basic Dev Fee must be paid in full within a short period (30 days rings a bell) but any alternative deal might involve staged payments over a longer timescale. Add ons might never come to fruition (as per Jake Hastie) which is clearly a disappointment for the former club. Any add ons that come into play can substantially reduce transfer income for the new Club. Essentially it is a gamble but the financial situation of both clubs at the time the player moves will play a part.

For a minute, let's set aside the obvious off field baggage that Motherwell would inherit along with Goodwille and the turmoil that would cause. On a purely footballing basis, Fletcher is a far better option than someone who has hardly kicked a ball since January 2022. Particularly in the Country's top division. And in that same League Fletcher showed up well in every game he featured against us last season. If age is a factor as some suggest, Goodwillie is not really that much younger than Fletcher. Motherwell would be crazy to consider Goodwillie. I do suspect the suggestion was tongue in cheek. At least I hope so,

Agree with this. If we continue with the same set up Kettlewell introduced then Goss could be a great asset with the right support. Same applies to Spittal. Slattery does need to step up as I find him the most frustrating of our midfielders. I do think there is a player in there but we need more consistency and better ball retention from him. And less yellow cards. I wonder if Paton is seen as an option to Slattery. I know you don't rate him but, given his time out of the game, maybe with a proper pre season and regular game time he will prove you and others wrong. I think it is far to early to make an assessment and clearly Kettlewell trusts him to contribute. Remember also that Butcher was signed as a midfielder although his performances as an emergency centre back suggest he might stay there when fit. But Butcher remains a midfield option if we can afford to release him forward. I do think the potential is there for us to have a very strong midfield but that depends on what happens at wing back and central defence. My biggest concern is up front where we just simply have to find a natural goal scorer. Not easy, but essential as none of squad we are left with fits that bill. Four top signings could turn us into a really good team if we can retain Goss and Casey. And dare I say it, an attractive team to watch. Otherwise it's yet another massive rebuild.

That’s not what I took from Wee Yins comment. I understood he meant any potential Scottish buyer would have to pay a premium as we would be reluctant to sell to a league rival. Reluctant but not unrealistic or stupid. So in your example we would certainly be willing to accept the £1m. £500k plus add ons for a 32 year, who has had one exceptional season and entering the final year of his contract is hardly a bad deal. I wish him well if he does move on.

We don't know what his personal situation is or what his ties to the Newcastle area are. Maybe there are other, possibly external, factors which explain his acceptance of being fourth choice. Maybe he is simply looking to his long term future and getting heavily involved in coaching, gaining Uefa coaching badges, supported by Newcastle FC. Maybe he needs to be close to home for personal reasons. Maybe he is just enjoying football life in whatever role he has. We simply don't know. Whatever, he has chosen to sign on on for another year. I have no doubt he could easily be a first choice at some other team if that was a route he wanted to go down.

Not checked further back than last season but Matchday One for all Divisions, including ours, was July 30. So no such advantage as you suggest for lower league clubs. We can see what dates are scheduled for Match Day One this season. In fairness, last season we did start our League campaign after the lower league clubs....by one day.

Timing really only becomes an issue if there is a large turnover within the first choice fourteen or so and lots of new recruits need bedded in. There is no excuse whatsoever for fitness levels being an issue. And our opponents are in the same situation. We are a Premiership, full time club with better players so it is up to us to perform like it. No excuses or dropping of standards. We had enough of that last season.

Cornelius as at the stage in his career where he needs and probably wants a more or less guaranteed first team place.... as opposed to being a squad player. He is a decent enough player but I honestly don't see him as a first pick. Particularly if Kettlewell strengthens his squad over the summer. So in all the circumstances it is probably better that he moves on. I wish him all the best and thank him for his efforts whilst at Motherwell. Maybe he can return at a later date which will have the added benefit of winding a few folk up! As for training compensation, we will be due something but Hibs might get the greater share as he progressed through their youth programme and only joined us at age 17 I think. That said, to qualify for compensation I believe the parent club must have a contract offer turned down by the player. In Hibs case I think they released Cornelius without such an offer so they might actually be due nothing. Whatever, we will not receive that much and it might be beneficial to negotiate with his next club, looking to possibly a greater return down the line rather than a small fee up front. If we accept the standard training compensation then that is a once and for all payment.

If Queens Park are the second seeds I think we are guaranteed to play them at Fir Park. At least that's how it worked in previous years.

And I believe funds received at season end from Uefa relating to the performance of Scottish Clubs are also ringfenced. The consolidation funds that, to receive, a Club must evidence a recognised Academy on which any such funds can be invested. So they cannot be used to purchase camper Vans either..........although I guess we could argue they were for youngsters' accommodation or travel to away games.

If it is not a disgrace then it is negligent and exhibits a total lack of forward planning. At the very least the standby goalies should have been blooded in any one of numerous friendlies or meaningless ties. Just in case the number one choice got injured during an important qualifying fixture resulting in an untested keeper being thrown in at the deep end.. As a result we have witnessed an embarrassing plea for Marshall to reverse his international retiral. Followed by an approach to Gunn, a player who had previously refused a call up in the belief he was destined for better things. Now those better options have disappeared he is unsurprisingly available. I don't think anyone is denying Gunn is a better option then Kelly or Clark but the manner in which we have arrived at the present situation says a lot about Steve Clarke. Loyal beyond reason to some and so disrespectful to others.

Luton move into their new ground season after next. All agreed. Now will have to spend a good few million ( ten is the rumour) on existing ground to be allowed into Premier League. Just shows the amount of money washing around the Premier League. Also became the first team to go all the way down from top division to non league....and then all the way back up again. And wee AC looked happy enough despite not featuring today. Probably relieved that he was not faced with having to take a pen.

Might have been deflected for a corner but he blew for half time anyway. The referee was chronic. I've seen him in a few games, not always involving Motherwell, and he often abdicates decisions...relying on VAR to intervene if need be. Several of his non decisions have been highlighted on Sportscene. And he is not the only referee guilty of that. Been happening all season. Ironic that the big decision he did have the balls to make was totally wrong in so many aspects. Trying so hard not to issue a second yellow to the guy who was determined to get sent off just highlighted his reluctance to make a decision.

It looked like Butcher won the ball. Quite clear on the replay McKay did not have an issue with the overrule. He did complain that the referee blew his whistle immediately. As a result he believes that the player who then had a shot did not really strike the ball as he would have, because he heard the whistle. So Kelly tipped it over the bar. Apparently the referee apologised for calling the penalty so quickly but he was certain it was a clear foul. He was wrong. The referee is supposed to let the play finish before calling it, just in case the ball ends up in the net. As soon as he whistles, the play is dead and nothing else comes into play. At the time I wondered why it was a drop ball and not a corner. But the drop ball was correct because play was dead before the Kelly save. Basically the referee got it all wrong.

That’s fair enough. Each to their own. My point was that it is possible to do both. If you want to opt out of most or all the European games then that is a choice you are more than entitled to make. And I respect that. It is also a fact though that if we had finished third last season rather then several years ago, then funds such as the £5m that Hearts brought in for merely qualifying would have increased our likelihood of a higher League placing or that exciting Cup run you crave. Not been at them all, but every away game I have attended in Europe has had a great atmosphere. As has several of the home legs, although admittedly not all. And results at times have had an effect on that home atmosphere. But way more than 5 in total have had an atmosphere to be remembered. In my opinion that is. Anyway, moving on.

Almost everyone.

Cannot help yourself can you? just another one in a long line of players who can do no right in your eyes. Spittal is another. Whether you are prepared to accept it or not, Spittal and SOD have contributed to the revival under Kettlewell. Not just players or football of course. Dare I mention Burrows or Sturgeon. I expect players to be criticised for a poor performance, and I support that criticism when it is justified. Where most fans differ from you is that they will praise those same players when they perform well. You on the other hand just go silent. And anyway, if SOD were to leave, you would have to find someone else to obsess over.

Just out of curiosity. Are you willing to accept he was one of our better players at Perth, even winning a penalty. In fact, a very able deputy for Max. Arguably better defensively. I maybe missed you saying that in the match thread.

I’m not so sure he isn’t rated by Kettlewell. I would like to have seen him given more game time, yes, but I can understand why it has not happened so far. Kettlewell had a job to do and devised a structure that suited the players at his disposal AND got us out of the mire. Until Saturday we were not mathematically safe and we were not coasting in many of the games we did win. So I can understand why Kettlewell stuck to a tried and tested formula. When he got the job Kettlewell stated that he had to work with the squad he had and that might mean a formation/ style of play that was not entirely his first choice moving forward. Playing Butcher at Centre Back was not his preferred option either, but it worked so he stuck with it. As for playing McKinstry rather than Spittal during that spell. Not for me. But maybe Kettlewell could find a formation that would get the best out of both players. Given a pre season and without the need for a rescue act from game one. With a different squad it might open up other options that would better suit McKinstry. If not, he moves on with my best wishes and thanks.