dennyc

That's a fair point about the quality that is out there. But, in reality, how many of those players you list could we have afforded? Wonder what their current wages are compared to what is on offer at Fir Park. Killie, Aberdeen, Hearts and even Dundee appear to be operating with a budget we cannot compete with. County have a sugar daddy, although that is coming to an end. The Brentford goalkeeper knocking us back for St Mirren is a classic example as is the rumour that our supposed Raith Rovers target is favouring a move to Dundee Utd. or even staying put. As always it comes down to finance.

If it is the usual format we are away to Montrose and Clyde, 1st seeds are at home to second and fourth seeds if I recall it correctly

Fair do's they won't be a year older compared to season end. I stand corrected. Apologies. They will be a year older than they were when last season started, and so on throughout the season. Not so relevant regards youngsters but a factor to be considered with senior players as games mount up. Especially if we have two good cup runs......I live in hope. I agree with your views re Gent, SOD, Mugabi and Kelly. With only limited viewing admittedly, Wilson is the only youngster that I think is anywhere near first team ready. And he was farmed out on loan last season after the League Cup so not clear what plans they have for him. Happy he has another year.

If every one of the out of contract players had accepted new terms, we could have ended up with exactly the same defence we completed the season with. Possibly except for Gent who many considered the best and most dynamic of the lot. Fortunately a couple have rejected terms as you say so that will not happen, But the concerning message is that the club, with or without SK's approval, were prepared to run 100% with a group of players that regularly underperformed as a unit. No offence, but would you have been comfortable starting the season with, Kelly, SOD, McGinn, Mugabi, Butcher, Casey, Gent (maybe) Blaney as first choices with Wilson, Ross, Oxborough as back ups? Our Board and Manager apparently were. We got away with it this season. Not so sure we would have next season given the senior players would all be a year older. At least now with Kelly and Butcher moving on there is some scope for change. But not as much scope as there should have been. All about opinions though.

Not just the majority. Every one of them. 100%! Either already under contract, offered terms or requested back on loan. Add in retained youngsters (Ross and Wilson) and that would not have left much, if any, room for additions. I don't think that every one of them needed to go, but because of contracts expiring we had the chance to make wholesale changes to a poorly performing area of the team and at the same time ending up with a bloated squad and a massively increased wage bill. Not so sure that will be possible now.

Or maybe it's as simple as retain them if they take a wage cut. And so reduce the wage bill overall. Finance ahead of quality which may well be a line SK has had to go along with. As well as referring to a Takeover, Caldwell also stated we cannot continue making losses each season. His words, not mine. (before Steelboy tells me we have millions in the Bank.)

I'm saying that I find it staggering that anyone at the Club (or any fan) could justify every one of our defenders of last season being retained for the season ahead. With the possibility of the exact same defence next season as last. And I can only assume SK was on board with that possibility. I doubt whether any of them are fucking idiots though, which makes it even more baffling. But, hey, I'm only a fan that witnessed those defenders regularly under perform and a fan that believed change was essential. Particularly at Centre Back.

All valid. But my point....and I think Steelboys's.....is that our Manager decided every single one of our defence last season contributed enough to be retained. Yeah, we may debate the merits of each player and have different opinions. But that defence was simply not good enough so attempting to retain them en masse baffles me. And I say that as someone who rates Kettlewell.

Perhaps he is alluding to the fact that the entire defence of last season were good enough to be retained as far as SK is concerned. Kelly, Butcher, McGinn, Mugabi, SOD and Oxborough offered new contracts, Gent retained on loan and Casey and Blaney under contract. Matchday threads would suggest that not many would agree with Kettlewell. Unusual as it is for me agree with Steelboy , that does suggest our Manager was happy with their contribution last season. I find that concerning. I took that to be the point that was being made. Even as back up I would question the merits of retaining several of that list. As a fan, do you think our defence was anywhere near good enough last season? And would you have been happy to continue with all of those players?

I think this is a much fairer assessment of the situation. Also it is sad to sense the joy that some fans seem to take from his recent struggles. Joining Celtic appears to be a move that some just cannot forgive. Funny how nobody has mentioned that until he got injured in the League Cup final, he was the only outfield player that featured in every Ange team selection that season. In his absence McGregor O'Riley and Hatate eventually became automatic first choices, in a winning team. Despite that, Turnbull when fit still scored a fair number of goals as a substitute, often only featuring for 20 minutes or so. Since coming back from serious surgery and having to learn how to walk again he has earned a lot of money, has enjoyed numerous league and cup winners medals, played and scored in European ties in front of a full Celtic Park. Hardly a disaster or failure. Admittedly he has not progressed as most, but perhaps not all, Motherwell fans had hoped but I honestly believe that in time he will return to a higher level. I agree Cardiff was not the best move for him but at least he no longer has to listen to Brendan Rogers every day. Hibs or Aberdeen next up possibly. And as this is Ins and Outs chat as wellfan is keen to point out....I would be delighted if Campbell or Turnbull elected to return to rebuild their careers. But I think iAberdeen, Hearts, Hibs would be more likely destinations than Motherwell.

Yeah. So I guess any potential signings from them will have to wait on the play off result. I think Easton is out of contract but I guess he might be tempted to re-sign if they beat County. Rovers have a few players who stand out in the Championship but whether they can step up a League is the gamble.

Hilarious. Nonsense but hilarious. Welcome to SOL.

He had a decent pre season at Hearts at then hardly featured. Tougher to get in their team than ours right enough. He has been with ourselves for months and has been poor, even when fit. I'm not saying we should rip up any legal contract. If there is one we should honour it even if it hurts us financially. I'm questioning whether that legal agreement actually exists because the term PCA has not been quoted by MFC or the media. And if it does not, we should walk away given his four month trial with ourselves has been far from inspiring. We need players that can regularly contribute or we are likely to be in the same mess we were in at times this season. Paying good wages for little or no return. Have we learnt anything from Obika and Souare?

And yet various clubs have succeeded in securing external finance, free or not I don't know. Not saying on terms that would be acceptable to MFC and it's fans, but clearly there are financially astute people out there that find the Scottish football scene of interest. Until the terms of any offer are released we are all just guessing. If someone was to inject funds on the understanding they get (say) 20% on any transfer income until such time as their funding is repaid, is that really an investment as you describe it. More of a non dated loan to my thinking. Again, not saying such a deal is on the table, but it is another avenue that could provide funds without selling the family silver. I guess it all comes down to what you consider investment. Let's see what Barmack offers, if anything.

Playing as a wing back Nicholson put in more decent crosses than Gent did on the day. Defensively limited as you say but I do recall him winning a few balls in his own area first half and he stopped a certain goal late by tracking back in the second half. I was more worried about Bevis defensively than Nicholson. And teams always attack both our wide areas. Be it Gent, Sod or anyone else playing wing back. Sunday was no different. Not that I see Nicholson as the answer.

Exactly this. And the media did not mention a formal PCA either, as they did with Spittal and others. Time will tell I guess.

If there was a formal PCA in place, would the Club not have announced it that way? They didn't so that does provide doubt. I live in hope he was promised a deal if he proved his worth by season end. Clearly he has not done so, thus I hope we can walk away. He cannot last 45 minutes and even then he is off the pace. A liability. He has been given plenty of chances and we are not a charity. If other clubs are after him. they can have him.

Agree 100% re Vale and Butcher but Miller got injured when his goal attempt was blocked. So thinking he was subbed as protection? I have no idea why Mugabi started or why SOD was not brought on instead of Ross when we needed to drive forward.. I actually thought Nicholson started ok but faded.

My first game was in 1966 when my cousin kidnapped me and took me to Fir Park for a game against St Johnstone. Was hooked from that day onwards. Seen lots of fantastic players....and some not so fantastic... in my time but it's strange how it's often players that few mention that stick in the memory. Brian Heron as an example. Some shot on him and I recall a game against Killie where I swear the goal posts were actually rocking after his shot smashed against the bar. At least it seemed that way to an awe struck teenager. I do regret that I never saw some of the older players such as Stevenson, Ferrier, McFadyen and a good few others that moved on to greater success elsewhere. Players like Hughie Ferguson whose life story is so tragic despite his footballing achievements. Everyone part of Motherwell folklore and legends, if not the GOAT.

Also depends on what criteria you look at for GOAT. Is it most talented player, or most entertaining, or goals scored, or longest serving, or most games played, or most capped, or greatest captain, or most impactful, or being part of a trophy winning side, or home grown, or going on to achieve great things after moving on? Impossible task although fun remembering those you saw in the flesh and reading about those you didn't. Throws up a lot of great memories for us old folk.

I'm hoping we can get out of any verbal agreement we have given. Pretty sure he cannot have signed a permanent deal whilst still contracted to Hearts. No offence to him. but he has hardly proven his worth so far. Also the Club did not say we had entered into a formal PCA as per Spittal to Hearts. So I'm hoping it is a gentleman's agreement but linked to performance and fitness. Much rather stick with Slattery😍

I too can see why we gave him a try when he became available. But he has shown little to convince anyone. Are we absolutely positive we are tied into him for next season? Could there have been some sort of 'prove yourself' agreement which would explain why he has been featuring ahead of others, even if only for the first half? I think he cannot sign permanently until his Hearts contract actually expires .There is a huge difference between an option to sign and a firm contract. I ask in hope and on reading the media quoting today that he is on loan to season end with no mention of any fixed agreement for next season.

But I take it your stream did catch Lovell saying the penalty call was wrong? After he saw his replay. I agree re Halliday BTW.

Do you also agree with Lovell's take on the penalty? That it was a joke decision and SOD blameless.

Add to that no in game observations from some about how shite SOD is, how Spittal is not trying or that Kelly is the poorest goalie in the league. And grudging praise, if any comment, but always with some negative when we win. Oh, but the manager is still useless and has only a win% of minus 24. Must have been a few pre prepared after match rants deleted at 5pm yesterday. Well done to Kettlewell and the players for overcoming all the obstacles that were thrown their way this season. Scope to rebuild now hopefully.