dennyc

Not saying we were not a better team when Watt was with us........he showed us on Saturday how good his hold up play is.... but to highlight his departure as the major reason we have struggled to score does not really stand up. Which truthfully did surprise me. Someone can maybe check my arithmetic but your post got me looking over the results post and pre Watt. In the 15 League games since Watt left Motherwell the team has scored 14 goals. So less than a goal a game which is just not good enough. By comparison, in the 15 League games before he left we scored a grand total of 14 goals. The exact same. Not looked up how many of those he scored but he had gone off the boil following his excellent start to the season. And his scoring record has not returned at Utd. Certainly no more talk of a Scotland call up. In summary I think the decline is down to much more than letting Watt leave. Add to that the fact that our opponents have sussed out our tactics/set up and our paltry goal return is no longer good enough to scrape wins. Our determination to stick with certain players and an undermanned midfield became predictable and hurt us. Unsurprisingly our improved performance on Saturday coincided with a long overdue change of set up. For the first time in ages I thought we deserved something from the game. VVD also deserves his arse kicked for picking up needless yellow cards which meant he missed two winnable games where we created chances but took zero points. To me VVD had taken over as our major goal threat even before Watt left. Regards "supposed" targets. Top 6. Achieved so well done for that. But let's not go overboard. We are in a poor League. Europe and 4th/5th was entirely possible given our league position pre break. Might still be secured but it will be a disappointment if that does not work out and our points gathering earlier in the season is not properly reflected in the table. Cup Results. Not really much of a target or achievement reaching a Quarter Final. League cup we were rotten and were lucky to qualify from the Group. We then went out to the first Premiership team we faced. And that team are about to be relegated. Scottish Cup we struggled to beat a mid table championship team at Fir Park, played well to defeat a bottom six Premiership team at Fir Park and then blew it at Fir Park against another bottom six Premiership team in the Quarter Final. So despite the hype, our Cup Results were poor and in both cases a great chance to make a financially rewarding trip to Hampden was missed. Targets need to set a real challenge. Not so sure ours did.

Hopefully we set up like at Utd as that was a definite improvement despite the result. Even Alexander suggested that much in his post match "analysis". Mugabi looked much more comfortable moved in a place. And O'Hara did fine in right defence. Strangely Carroll also looked more secure in a set up that actually suited the players. VVD hopefully adds the killer touch and Tierney deserves a run out just in behind him. And please, no Efford or imposter Goss. So in all probability Mugabi will start at right back, Goss will be the main man in midfield and Tierney will be dropped for VVD with Efford also starting. Under Alexander would that really surprise anyone?

4th was a realistic if challenging target given our position pre winter break. So to miss out on that is disappointing and highlights repeated failures since then. And missing out on European qualification (given that 5th position now qualifies) would be an even bigger disappointment. If you are suggesting that our Board and Alexander did not reassess our target in light of our position after 21 games then that lack of ambition is even more disappointing. Perhaps having the original target of avoiding relegation in the bag so early is one reason for the downturn. But if some fans wish to ignore our form over the past four months then fair enough. We will just agree to have different expectations..

For the sake of clarity that will be a resounding resounding YES, if not before. I thought I hade made that perfectly clear in this and the Rangers thread. And in case you suggest I am desperate for his terrible run to continue to add to the debate, I do hope we can win on Saturday and beyond even with him steering the ship. We are now at the “win at all costs stage” as far as Europe and climbing the league is concerned. We cannot keep relying on others. A situation brought about by his and his team’s performance in the past four months. But unless he is prepared to change his approach and player management I dread to think how hard to bear next season will be. It is easy to avoid his pre and post match drivel but not so much the on field offerings. We will find out soon enough though as he is going nowhere. Perhaps your faith will be justified and my lack of faith shown to be misplaced. As I said, time will tell. You have your opinion. I have mine. So be it.

Our “current form” form is that we have been abysmal since the start of 2022 and our Manager has been unable to reverse the decline. And that assessment of decline is not based on a few poor results over a couple of weeks. Four months is a long time to most football fans. He has shown no intention of adjusting tactics that have been found out by our opponents and are exposing our players week after week. For whatever reason he has marginalised numerous players and played others out of position in an effort to shoe horn in others. Performances when selected appear to count for nothing. Good or bad. Our Cup record is that we were terrible in the League Cup, scraping through a Group of lower league teams….were you at Airdrie?….. and ultimately losing out to the team more than likely who will finish bottom of the Premiership. Fans were questioning Alexander back then. Clearly too early in the day but a sign of things to come. In the Scottish Cup we had a wonder goal to thank for struggling past a Morton team nowhere near a Championship play off spot, a great result against a struggling Aberdeen and then blew it against a Hibs team who were later consigned to the bottom six. That Hibs result in my opinion due mostly to Alexander persisting with a player at right back who was an accident waiting to happen in order to facilitate a formation that has become so predictable. A decent Centre Back but a liability at full back. And you will see I did give credit to Alexander and the team for our position at the break. For our position but not the style of play or for entertainment value. The league position made that just about bearable, Just. Unlike you, I do not have faith in Alexander any more and I would not be disappointed to see him replaced sooner than later. Yes I accept that the squad next season will look a tad different, although nineteen of the current squad ( many of whom Alexander signed ) are contracted beyond 2022. Our best player pre break has already departed and our best player since the break is also heading out the door. I am not convinced Alexander has any intention of changing the approach currently adopted or of recruiting players to make that even possible. In summary, I believe our success in making top six is despite Graeme Alexander and not because of Graeme Alexander. That and some big name rivals who were just as poor on and off the pitch but who have since taken steps to adjust those failings. Opponents who are looking forward and not looking to a time when their manager and players were performing to an acceptable level. Time will tell who is correct because Alexander will be in charge next season come what may. Meantime the debate will continue.

David, normally I agree with almost 100% of what you post. And I more often than not disagree with 100% of what Yodo posts. (no offence meant as everybody has the right to their opinion). And to be clear, I don't know either of you. But since you like facts here is something to consider. And something that perhaps explains why a large number of our fans are extremely concerned. At the winter break (Late December) every team had played 21 games and we sat comfortably in fourth place with a grand total of 31 points. So despite the style of football we played most people were accepting and supportive of our Manager. Particularly as he dragged us out of the relegation mire last season. Credit to him for those achievements. Since that date every team has now played a further 13 League games. Points gained by those crap teams in the bottom six as follows - (if the tables I unearthed are accurate!) Dundee 10 points, St Johnstone 17 points, St Mirren 14 points, Aberdeen 8 Points, Livingston 18 points and Hibs 12 points. I'll add Ross County with 19 points because I think what they have achieved is fantastic and they were third bottom at the break. Other than one post split game, all those sides played the exact same teams as us. We have amassed 9 points, so only Aberdeen have gathered less than us in 2022. And given their Budget (and manager) I would suggest their poor performance will not be repeated next season. So the question is. When does current form take over from historical form and become the basis for predicting the path that lies ahead? Add to that the lack of light at the end of the tunnel and Alexander's apparent reluctance to alter an approach that has been failing since the restart.... having been sussed by every other team in the League. You clearly have great faith in our Manager and credit to you for that. But fans....even Yodo...have grounds to be concerned. That does not mean that most of us hope the present run continues. I prey we can at least overtake Ross County and secure a European place. But I'm far from convinced that will happen and I worry even more about what next season will bring if the current trend is not reversed. And I'm also far from convinced that Graeme Alexander even recognises the need to adapt his approach. Hopefully I am wrong and his supporters are correct because I don't think he is going anywhere.

For me it's about current form and hopes for next season. Yeah, we finished ahead of six other teams at the time of the split and credit to all for that. But it is so blinkered to hide behind that achievement. The reality is we are now terrible. Our cup performances are also held up as worthy achievements. Well, we exited the League Cup at the hands of Dundee having scraped through a Group of lower league part timers. We struggled past Morton in the Scottish Cup and admittedly then put in a great performance against Aberdeen. Only to then blow it at home to Hibs. So one, and only one, decent performance. How have we performed since the turn of the year? Four long months, not just a couple of weeks. How many games have we won in the League in that time ? How entertained have you been? What improvements or changes of tactics have you seen during this shocking run we are on? How does our form over that same period compare with those six "poorer" sides? Are you confident this poor run will not continue under Alexander, and if so, based on what evidence. Were you more surprised at our capitulation to Rangers or that we stole a point from Livingston? As another poster said, ambitions ( if not Managerial targets) change over the course of a season. Given our position towards the end of 2021 fourth place was a realistic target and a European place even more so given the OF or Hearts were likely Cup Winners. Since then we have been woeful, have under achieved and there are no signs of anything changing soon. Unlike some on here I actually don't think we have that poor a squad, although it is disheartening to see what I consider our better players leaving/being forced out the door. Players are repeatedly played out of position and hung out to dry in a formation that has now been sussed by our opponents and no longer effective. Mugabi at Right back as an example....least said the better about trying to solve that situation on Saturday by asking Cornelius to step back. Continuing to play so narrow defensively despite that set up being repeatedly exposed by all and sundry. Three players being overrun and outfought in midfield. No wonder the players look confused and angry at times. I admire you if still retain hope and excitement for our future under Alexander. For me that's the thing. Hope and excitement are not two words that spring to mind when I set off for Fir Park nowadays. And I say that as someone who was delighted to see Alexander appointed. Enough is enough.

Who stood and watched (yet again) Mugabi prove that he has never been and never will be a right back? Hibs in the cup should have seen the end of that nonsense. Sakala ripped him to shreds today. Centre Back or nothing. Who stood and watched (yet again) Efford prove he should have been left playing lower division football in Belgium? Woolery must be woeful in training if he is behind him in the first team queue. Lots of effort but nothing else. Who stood and watched (yet again) Ojala prove that he could not catch a one legged blind man? Embarrassing seeing him floundering as Kelly saved his bacon yet again following a long hopeful punt forward from the opposition. sadly injury appears to have taken its toll. Who stood and watched (yet again) Goss put in another Imposter of the Year application? Has he any idea what a forward pass is or that he is meant to challenge the opposition for the ball? He did make two decent passes up in Aberdeen though. Two a season must be rated a good return. Who set the team up to play narrow (yet again) with a lightweight midfield (yet again). See almost any game you like this season. Who did nothing about the shambles we were watching for over an hour (yet again) until the game was over? In fairness he got out of jail at Livi. Not so lucky at Perth or Dingwall though. I think we all know the answer to those questions. Yes, teams go through bad spells and luck plays a part. But Alexander has done nothing to address issues we can all identify every week and in fact he seems to delight in trying to prove his point over and over again. He is hanging many players out to dry.........Played out of position or out of their depth. One League win in almost 5 months and he is bleating that he is not getting enough credit for finishing top six. He should be thankful he is still in a job because in truth, from the position we were in,4th position is the least we should have achieved. Teams quickly caught on to his one dimensional approach and he is either unable or unwilling to adapt. Now he is about to bring in more of his similar minded team of coaches I fear for what we will be presented with next season. Enough is enough. Football is not enjoyable any more. Time for Alexander to move on and let someone else try to repair the damage.

How do you know Doncaster wanted it moved? Rangers wanted it moved. Approached Motherwell as they are entitled to and is correct procedure. . Motherwell agreed (like it or loathe it). BOTH Clubs approached Spfl who agreed on basis Sky confirmed they could rearrange their Schedule. Police then approached and, after sorting out Overtime costs and manning details, they agreed. It's not a big deal Game over. Some may not like that the game was moved, perhaps through a hatred of Rangers, Burrows or both. But no way do I believe Motherwell were forced to agree to the change. Other countries rearrange games all the time to assist their teams in Europe. For some reason folk in Scotland have an issue with it. Could the Club have communicated better and was the change at short notice? Yes. Hopefully lessons will be learned. Sadly, I think Superward was spot on in his last paragraph. Given the number of "likes" that post has, it appears many agree.

And if Rangers are paying the Police costs is that not of financial benefit to Motherwell? I trust Burrows enough to believe that the switch will not have left us out of pocket. I doubt we will ever really know what the Clubs agreed between themselves, in private but approved by Spfl and Police. If we had been forced to change I'm pretty sure Motherwell would have made that known. Folk making a mountain out of a mole hill here, for whatever reason. And I can add two ST Holders who can now attend who were missing out on the Sunday.

To put bones on the Solidarity thing. From the total pot of £125m+ ( Dec 2019 figure) made available to the associate Clubs from UEFA’s income, 80% goes to the Associations who have a team reach CL group stage. The other Associations share only 20%. This season something like 15 different associations were represented in the CL Group stage so they will be allocated a share of £100m+ to share equally between their top division teams who have a youth policy that meets UEFA criteria. And some top division clubs in those countries do not have an acceptable youth policy, increasing the payment to those that do. A couple of our top division sides have lost out recently for that reason. We benefited. So much as it may pain us, we should hope for Motherwell’s financial benefit that at least one Scottish team does well in the Champions League. If the coefficient is boosted by Europa League success that will increase our chances of having two teams enter the CL each year, with one even going straight into the Group Stages if Scotland is ranked high enough ( or one of our teams qualifies by winning the Europa League).

The Police were the stumbling block. I was told they had already drawn up their rosters based on a Sunday match and placed officers on leave on the Saturday. To minimise wage costs as the try to avoid Overtime payments. That could not be forcibly changed so the only option left was for an overtime shout. Those costs had to be met from somewhere and Rangers were asked to stump up, perhaps by Motherwell and/or the SPFL. I can only assume they agreed so then the game was belatedly moved. I have no objection to the game being moved to assist a Scottish club in Europe.....after all we may well benefit from OF success in Europe..... although I get that some fans will be disadvantaged. No doubt some fans are also disadvantaged by a noon Sunday kick off and any other game that is rescheduled for SKY. But I do think the Club should and could have communicated better. But perhaps I am just not as bitter or Burrows obsessed as some on here.

Where do they say they are not including offside? The press release says they are implementing the same system as in England and setting up cameras at all 12 grounds. And the plan is to check every goal. That check has to include offside or there is no point.

So how come Spain had 5 teams in CL this year when their "Limit" is 4? Barca, the 2 Madrid Clubs, Sevilla and Villareal as Europa Cup winners. All in the Group stages. Might be a factor that Villareal did not qualify automatically via league placing so had to be fitted in. But it is not correct that limits cannot/will not be exceeded when it suits. Uefa tend to make it up as they go along. We will likely never find out in Rangers case but if a miracle were to happen then a decision would have to be made. It is not clear cut. It is also a factor that Uefa are looking to implement a "wildcard entry" to be given to teams with a good CL record that do not qualify automatically via their own League. Like Man Utd as an example. Again that would result in 5 teams from England taking part. If Russia and/or Ukraine clubs are not included it has been suggested those countries with 3 teams included might be upped to 4 teams each. But no firm decision has been made. We should really all be hoping Rangers and Celtic do get far in Europe as at the end of the day that benefits Scotland in respect of teams taking part and also those teams are more likely to reach the group stages. For instance, if Hearts win the cup but lose their first Europa Cup tie, they will drop into the Conference Group stages and rake it in. That is purely down to Rangers and to a lesser extent Celtic. The Livi manager was spot on when he pointed out how much a European qualification could mean to every club nowadays.

This year Spain got 5 teams in CL. The first four in their League plus Villareal. So I think yes. But don't bank on it given we are a wee diddy country.

Lamie should challenge the yellow card on the grounds of mistaken identity. Clearly he did nothing to incite the crowd (other than score) and he made no gestures to the Livi fans. Does the referee report not have to detail what the card was for?

The difference being that those players you list were nearly always played in their natural positions. That cannot be said of Lamie and Mugabi under Alexander. So it is not a valid comparison although I do accept that at times those players looked more secure.

Spfl site just posted up fixtures! Rangers H Utd A County A Hearts H Celtic A Not Good

Agree with this 100%. Lamie has been our best defender for months. Without question. And that after the merit of playing him was questioned by some on here insisting he would not be committed enough having signed a pre contract elsewhere. Lamie has been nothing but professional and certainly proven those doubters wrong. Compare Lamie's approach to that of Gallagher who I cannot believe has been touted as a possible resigning. If he can get out of the Dundee move I would be delighted if Lamie stayed with us. And that is based on his form over a prolonged period and his commitment to his present club. We could do a lot worse. But he should be played as a centre back instead of being forced to sort out full back issues.

SOD was our best defender by a mile yesterday, and I include Kelly in that. Yet he still gets crucified with folk analysing every move he makes in the hope of finding fault. There is absolutely nothing he can do to turn some fans round. Suppose if folk are fixated on him it takes the pressure off others. Charles Dunne attracted the same attention. Further back it has been the likes of Hateley. Has to be one target each season I guess. Mugabi and Lamie are our best centre back pairing and should see out the season. And Mugabi should never play right back again. Don't know if Alexander was trying to prove a point, but it backfired big time.

Finished 2-0. Ireland scored the second goal after a break away in the last few minutes. Sweden must wonder how they lost to be honest. Irish goalie was superb. Our boy played the full game and never stopped working up and down the pitch..

Ireland U21s away to Sweden live on RTE Player. Free to all. Tierney with a smart finish to put Ireland one up. Amazing what he can do when he gets a chance to play. Time to trust him. He needs a decent run in our team to see what he can do. Playing just behind the main striker. Having a good game so far.

Apologies, bad wording on my part. To clarify, I did not want Wright or Hughes to be appointed in preference to Alexander (or at all) and as such was delighted and exited by his appointment instead of either of those two. My excitement and delight re Alexander was what I intended to say was misplaced, given the shambles and and eye bleediing football I am being subjected to each week. Not to mention the excruciating pre and post match waffle that comes out of his mouth. At the time there were two others I would have preferred to be serious contenders but sadly one now has moved up in the world and is well set. The other may not be available for a variety of reasons. Other options are available though. I do hope Alexander proves my concerns are misplaced, but I doubt it. I have simply lost faith in him and his style of football and fear for what lies ahead if he continues on this path. As others have said, it was just about bearable when we were winning the odd game.......who didn't enjoy looking at the table?...... but now we are in freefall the reality of his approach is hitting home. And it's painful. I can now appreciate why the Salford Board opted to let him go, which on the face of it looked like a crazy decision. I suppose it comes down to wanting to enjoy watching football. Each to his own.

Given that his Dundee salary does not kick in until the Summer I find it disappointing that with a wee bit of forward financial planning we were not able/prepared to make him an offer that matched what was on the table from Dundee. We have a fair few out of contract in the summer and added to the Watt wage savings we will surely will have funds available. Lamie has been far and away our best defender this season and his attitude has been commendable. I'm not convinced we will replace Lamie with a similar quality player at any less than we could have offered to convince him to stay. Like many fans I am not convinced all is well behind the scenes and I suspect Lamie, O'Hara and Watt, jumping ship is not just about the cash on offer elsewhere. I also suspect that several others, and especially the creative players, will opt to go elsewhere in the hope of being allowed to express themselves on the pitch. As he is likely still to be in place, I dread to think about who Alexander will bring in to support his eye bleeding approach. Hands up. I was delighted and excited when Alexander got the job ahead of the likes of Wright and Hughes. I was wrong. I went to my first Motherwell game in the mid 60's and have suffered some dreadful teams in that time. But this current situation is as poor as I can recall....even thinking back to the Malpas, Kampman and Hynd eras. Watching what is currently on offer is simply not enjoyable and as a ST Holder I am even struggling to convince myself to attend home games. Away games are simply no longer worth the effort or pain.

Given the situation we are in, ask yourself - Who game after game instructs the full backs/wing backs to play narrow, surrender the wide areas and concentrate on defending the multitude of crosses that will inevitably come in? Who game after game instructs our defenders to hoof the ball forward in the hope the opposing centre backs cannot head the ball and we might even win the second ball? Who game after game instructs every player to come back to defend free kicks and corners, leaving no out ball should we win the ball? Even the expected hoof ball has no target in those situations. Who game after game sets us up to be outnumbered and overrun in midfield? In fairness, if you bypass midfield that might not an issue when we have the ball. Does anyone genuinely believe it is the players making those decisions? Who thought it clever to play a decent central defender but suspect tackler at wing back in an important cup tie? And then who acts amazed that one piece of poor control and attempted recovery tackle results in a red card? Who game after game leaves our most creative and/or energetic players on the bench or sitting in the stand? Who drops players to the bench that did well when starting the previous match? Who stands watching a substandard performance, chatting it over with his mate for 75 minutes before making a change? Even then any change is like for like and makes no difference to the style of play. Who is prepared to blame the players, pitch, officials, weather, bad luck for every shambolic performance rather than accepting that just perhaps a change off approach now and then might help? Who spouts the same rubbish game after miserable game, but actually says nothing? You can blame the players and the poor quality of Scottish football and our League all you like. But we are stuck with a Manager who is doing nothing to help and in many ways is hanging his players out to dry. His stubbornness, reluctance to attempt a fresh approach when his game plan is failing coupled with his perceived persecution of players who raise questions is harming our Club and turning fans off big time. Somebody said it earlier. " It is now a chore going to watch this team". It is also galling to have to accept that teams such as Livingston, Ross County and St Mirren play far more entertaining football than we do despite operating in the same marketplace and therefore being similarly hampered by the poor quality of player available and the League we have to compete in. We may well escape relegation...just... this season but if Alexander continues with his same approach then we are only heading in one direction.