dennyc

Yes

I'm not a manufacturer so if it is technically impossible then so be it. But is it really a massive task to leave out one band on the back for one production run? It's not as if it would involve a complete redesign of the shirt. Pretty sure if there was willing there would be a way. And as the client, Motherwell should be able to call the shots. Cost permitting.

Clubs often wear one off tops for special occasions( Throwback day in Baseball as an example) in a number of sports. How difficult/costly would it be to ask our manufacturer to produce around 50 “half hoop” jerseys for use in Europa games, but produce the full hoop version for domestic games and for sale to fans. Or do Uefa tell us what we can wear in domestic games as well? That version with the white numbers is perfectly clear. Even our referees could read that....maybe. The whole thing is bureaucracy gone mad.

As Weeyin says footballers and many sportsmen will spend a greater proportion of their week training than other profession. But every job will likely have an element of training, self development . Health and Safety awareness will also come under that heading. Distance learning as well to gain qualifications to assist promotion.So I guess the issue would be where to draw the line and how to measure it before it’s ruled too much for a scheme like this. If the Government were going to exclude sport from the Furlough Scheme I would have thought Hancock would have taken action when he was ranting about footballers wages and EPL Clubs in particular. He backed off then but I think if he could have acted then he would have. At least one member of his party, and some media, put him under extreme pressure to do so. In the end clubs such as Liverpool withdrew voluntarily. But if Motherwell have provided training plans and receive updates from time to time, then they will have checked it out thoroughly before doing so. Hopefully from the Government as well as Martin Lewis. The barrier any ban might face , especially in England, is that it would actually hurt the smaller clubs who need the support more than the massive PL and Championship Clubs who earned Millions last year and will do so again when this is over. . Again where do you draw the line? And as I mentioned earlier , it’s good enough for Victoria Beckham. Crack on Motherwell.

Ha ha So true. It is clear that a few folk find it hard to swallow that, having stepped up to the position, Alan has done well

Please God no! Four pages was more than enough for me. But I accept your point.

This comment got me curious so I went back and read through the entire thread to see what the "anti Burrows stuff" was. Other than one mention of "Alan Burrows and the Board" at the start of Page 4 of4 , the first mention of animosity towards Alan Burrows being a feature was by David, also on Page 4 of 4. David commented- "I'd be absolutely astonished if this were the case. Some people have an axe to grind with Burrows, but his track record until now speaks for itself, and I'm happy to trust he's making the right call." That was followed by Yorkyred as quoted above. So the first two occasions Alan Burrows was mentioned individually , he was complimented and supported. Hardly "anti Burrows stuff" as is being stated. From what I read throughout the thread a number of people, including me, raised the question as to whether MFC have utilised (or are considering utilising) the Government's Furlough Scheme, Their justification for asking what they see as a valid question was clearly laid out. Others disagree and don't consider it a legitimate question. Fair enough. That's what fan forums are about. Some also expressed a view that our Board could be a bit more realistic with regards to Season Tickets as the season ahead is far from clear in many aspects. . Others clearly disagree and are entitled to that view. Again that's what discussion forums are about. But nowhere on this thread could I find any criticism of Alan Burrows as an individual. Strange that some appear to be suggesting there is. Just to be clear, I think Alan has done and continues to do a fantastic job for Motherwell Football Club. And long may he continue. The vast majority of Motherwell fans seem to share that view. In the thread relating to the League being suspended, lots of posters agree that the manner in which the SPFL Board has handled things has been embarrassing and suspicious. In fact most football fans in Scotland appear to share that view. Comment was made that Alan Burrows is a member of the SPFL Board which is accurate as far as I know. Again, it is the Board which has been criticised and not Alan as an individual. I do think that one person in particular does take issue with Alan Burrows on a regular basis. Why that is I don't know and I strongly disagree in almost every case. But I respect his right to express his views if supported by evidence and facts. But this current thread is not about Alan Burrows although some seem determined to change that. That has deflected from the intended purpose of the thread........ Season Tickets and the justification or not for purchasing them now to assist the Club financially.

A simple calculation confirms it for me. Allowing for 40 employees across playing and non playing Staff, three months equates to anything from £240k to £300k. That amounts to an awful lot of Season Ticket income. In a crisis such as the world is experiencing, can a Business like Motherwell afford to ignore financial support of that magnitude, especially as we possibly have no access to Bank finance. And sadly three months is likely a minimum. Ireland has just announced no major sporting gatherings until September at the earliest. Sturgeon might not be far behind. If MFC are not willing to avail themselves of that support for moral reasons then our Board need to consider what is best long term for the football club, and ultimately their fans and employees. We are going to look pretty silly if, in three months time, the cash has run out and there is still no likelihood of things returning to any sort of normal. I won’t even dwell on the advantage we are handing our rivals. Motherwell should be grabbing any sort of assistance they can and not just relying on benevolent Season Ticket Holders and the Well Society Membership for survival. A lawful option is there. Use it. That’s why the Government introduced the Scheme. Apparently the Beckhams have no such qualms and I think they probably have a bit more cash than our wee football club. Having said all that, I will be amazed if Motherwell have totally ignored the option. Surely some Staff must be furloughed, hopefully on full Salary.

I would not restrict it to non playing staff. 40 employees from whatever group equates to a maximum £100k a month. We are effectively giving Clubs such as Livi and Dundee Utd that much of an advantage each month this lasts. And there are more than those two Clubs. Those teams' fans know that any Season Ticket monies they provide now are being used in other important areas. Not going to an area that could be covered elsewhere. I know that many will disagree on principle. But these are hard times and our Club needs to be business like and prioritise our needs. If an option that helps is available, then use it. Others are. We are not Spurs, who made over a £100m profit last year and can afford to (eventually) dispense with Furloughing. At least for a few months. I would hope though that we would make up the additional 20% as long as financially possible. Then again. maybe they have furloughed some Staff. I don't think anybody has confirmed one way or another.

Numerous people within sport and society became infected. Various Organisations ...sporting and otherwise...took action for safety reasons. Worldwide. Maybe you could nip across to Sawgrass and ask them what prompted their change of approach. Common sense prevailed. Will it make a difference? Perhaps. perhaps not. Deal with it. Or is your gripe more to do with the fact that it was Rangers that got to play their game? Your love of them is well documented.

I think the pace at which this thing is moving answers your point to a degree. It was only late yesterday that the US shut down all major Sport, including at Sawgrass where they were trying to complete the Players Championship with no spectators. Why did they let the golf start? Same as at Ibrox. It seemed adviseable at the time. But the situation changed. Add to that recent announcements from around Europe covering most sports and today the news that numerous players and coaches from the EPL are infected. I think our lot were left with little alternative but to use common sense, do an about turn and postpone with immediate effect. It is only surprising that it took so long and that Sturgeon was waiting until Monday to implement any action. In hindsight I suspect she wishes she had not opted to delay until Monday. But events and circumstances have overtaken that decision in any event. I have no idea why Cheltenham races are still on and why the rugby in Cardiff is going ahead (aspecially as all PRO 14 Rugby is suspended). Whether cancelling events will halt the spread to any great extent is debatable but freeing up emergency services is a valid point. Common sense has been applied and if the decision contributes in any way to coping with the outbreak then it's justified.

And the rest of the Europe. Common sense applied for once by our Authorities. Sensible to play safe. Time for you to wake up to reality.

Game off

SFA and SPFL Joint Response Group currently in urgent discussions re this weeks fixtures. From the Daily Mail Scottish correspondent. And EPL EFL suspended

It's surely not simply about vulnerable folk avoiding a football match. Non vulnerable folk can pick up the virus and act as carriers when later visiting those in the vulnerable range. Parents as an example.

I agree totally. Just shows that only rich Associations have the funds to get round the agreement. I think it has also happened in Spain and Italy, maybe France. The terms enable EPL/Sky to show what they like. when they like. Fines to them mean bugger all. Good point re outside Europe. Maybe that's a technical issue MFC could look at for you guys.

Seems pretty unfair given the circumstances in that it's a rescheduled game and the original match would have been fine. The Uefa objection /agreement only applies to games from a country's top division. so that's why the Cardiff game can be broadcast. It's also why lower league games are actively scheduled when Champions League games are on, so Sky have midweek football to broadcast down South. having lost European games to BT. Sky do sometimes broadcast top flight or cup games on Champions League game days but either Sky or EPL are happy to pay the fine that goes with that breaking of the rules. The power of television money and viewing figures it seems, Our wee League could allow broadcasts but as they have no money to pay the fines then that is a non starter. It would be interesting to see what would happen if a Rangers v Celtic clash was unavoidable during Champions Leage game time.

So the monies paid out do not show as an expense on the Profit and Loss Account for the year then?

Just been reading through this thread properly for the first time. Here’s a suggestion. Incurring a loss at the same time as repaying outstanding debts of £1m seems a bit weird but maybe the loss of £436k was effectively on paper only, to ensure no tax liability and produce a loss which could be offset against future or past profits. If we had repaid the debt AFTER the tax year we would have been in the position of having to pay tax on a profit of around £500k in the tax year.. Roughly about £100k. By being tax clever and repaying the debt before the end of the tax year, I’m guessing the Club have saved a decent amount both now and in the future. Hardly on the scale of Amazon or Starbucks , but all totally legal. I’m not an Accountant so that might all be nonsense. But it makes sense to me. Many profitable Business find ways to reduce profits and therefore tax liability. Good practice. And the fact The Board do not seem at all bothered by the results might speak volumes. It also gives our Manager good reason to continue pleading poverty and to promote the need for Well Society subscriptions to keep rolling in.

Not just Grimshaw. It’s the exact same on the other side. Must be team orders

A certain Wullie P from 1973. Junior football match against England at Nuneaton. England 1 Scotland 5. Our man scored two. Played for East Kilbride at the time

Tempting fate but after a while we have learned how to play on that Accies pitch and as a result have had some pretty good results there of late. Compare that to Livingston where game after game we persist in sticking to our usual style. Passing the ball back and forth across the back, collecting in midfield and trying to hold off/sidestep men before playing a searching pass. Contrast that to how Livingston play on their own pitch. They get the ball into the final third as quickly as possible, usually one touch, and only try to play passing football when they are in that area. Even if there was nobody to pass to, I lost count of the number of times they just punted the ball upfield into our full back areas and then pressed us into overplaying and usually giving away possession. Dykes may be an excellent player, but the rest are a bunch of journeymen who play to instructions ...and do it well. Apart from Gillespie the performance yesterday was shocking and disheartening. I take it the game plan was set out for them so Robinson and Lasley must take their share of the blame. Why are we unable or unwilling to adapt our style to suit that pitch? Time after time it’s the same story. Even when we get a fortunate result like the start of this season. I don’t buy that we don’t have the players for a more suitable approach. Man for man we have better players than Livingston, but not on yesterday’s showing. Surely professional footballers of supposed good quality are capable of adapting to conditions, if they are instructed to. Interestingly Livingston appear able to play a more passing game when playing away from home on a grass pitch. So they are able to adapt. I don’t think James Scott would have made much difference and would have been isolated in the same way as Long, eventually playing deeper and deeper. Sad to see him go though. That said we might not have been treated to the sight of Bevis Mugabi doing his very best impression of a left winger/ centre forward. Credit to him for effort, he certainly gave it his all. And having suffered through both games, YES, yesterday was far worse and more embarrassing than the defeat to Accies.

If players stay with us (for comparatively low wages) there is no certainty their decent form will continue and that life changing offers will come in down the line. They could even find themselves far from guaranteed a starting position and eventually released. There is always the possibility of injury ruling out further opportunities. Injured long term on £5/8k per week is better than being injured long term on £1k per week. David Turnbull for instance may come to regret not moving on instead of extending his contract. Hopefully he fully recovers and gets the transfer his ability and loyalty merits. Securing a team with a respected coaching set up, on higher wages, with a two or three year guarantee is a no brainier. It’s what every youngster is looking to achieve. And it shows ambition and self belief. Unless for personal reasons there is a reason for staying at Motherwell it’s a no brainier. Football is a short career and players need to take opportunities when and if they present themselves. As fans it’s easy for us to talk about youngsters needing to stay for development reasons/first team football. But I’m pretty sure Clubs other than Motherwell can just as readily provide that progression. And of course Motherwell’s Business Plan requires transfer income to balance the books. I suspect they are more than content with the rewards of Hastie moving on. And with the monies received when youth players like McKinstrey opt out before graduating to our first team.

Younger brother. Rangers been after him for some time. Nothing we can do to keep him

According to MFC the Hastie payment was in MFC Bank Account by the end of May, paid in full. Discussions between the Clubs were amicable and went well. I believe they went that well that an add-on % was also agreed. If it had gone to Tribunal because the Clubs could not agree, then their would have been no such add-on . We did ok out of that move. And Rangers played it straight.