joewarkfanclub

It may well be that Alfred is well aware of where the problems lay on Sunday and is just protecting the player (a little too late imho). If that is the case then I would expect to see something very different on Saturday. If we do, lesson learned, we can move on. If not and we get another insipid, passive performance with no press and no control of the football, then more questions will arise. You cant win every game. But here is a way to lose football matches, and going down swinging, playing your way on the front foot is more palatable than what we saw on Sunday.

Mmmmm. Who did he play on the right side again? 🤔🤔🤔

Graeme McGarry nails Sunday (12mins). Obviously, he doesnt have his coaching badges either, so he might not be seeing the big picture.

Aye. Not expecting the team to reach Jens levels anytime soon, if at all this season. But Id like to see a shape, structure, patterns of play, any evidence really that we are trying to implement the clubs/managers philosophy. We really havent controlled games in the way we did last season, even in the games we have played well. Thats led to more pressure on our defence and in our box, so no surprise we have conceded some cheap goals. We either need to get back to the fundamentals that made us successful last year, or just not play out from the back quite as much, especially when teams have shown they are ready and equipped to deal with that. The little chipped ball into midfield or into wide areas seems to have been disgarded in favour of the long ball to Seb. Whether thats because Paulsen just isnt as good at it, or Alfred doesnt want him playing it, I dont know. But there are still opportunities to find space on the pitch that we are not utilizing right now.

Interesting, you did seem to use a lot of the words and phrasology in my post, so forgive me for being mistaken! For what its worth, I do get your general point. Managers do have to contend with a lot of stuff that we as fans just dont see and a lot of tactical stuff is beyond your average fan unless you happen to have studied for your coaching badges. That said, I dont think thats what happened on Sunday, and I suspect that our issues are systemic rather than tactical game to game. We all know Willy hasnt been great in the opportunities he has been given. We can all see that he hasnt grasped any of them. Some of us suspect he is the player that needed an arm thrown around him. Im 100% behind supporting the player, getting him happy and trying to see if we can coax out whatever it was that convinced us to sign him. But Celtic isnt the game to throw him in for his first start in months. It just isnt. Its fine to suggest that a player having a stinker may not be their fault, but in this case its hard to avoid the evidence of your own eyes. I dont like to single players out, but in this case its unavoidable. We want to be a progressive front foot team that presses and wins the ball up high. On Sunday our press totally broke down because when SPH and Lowry went, Willy was too slow and allowed Celtic to play around us. When the ball went his side, he was too slow to engage. He also didnt get back quickly enough to engage Celtics players down his side, leaving Sparrow in all sorts of trouble. That led to problems all over the park. So when you say the midfield being overun maybe wasnt a midfield problem, to an extent, you are correct. Bottom line is, if Alfred wants to continue to play the way we want to play (and he was very clear its what the executive board want him to do) then he needs to get our best players in their best positions and stop tinkering. If we want consistency, select consistently, then players will get a chance to build the relationships he talks of and we might see an upturn in performance. I get that hasnt always been possible due to injuries and suspensions but that doesnt excuse what he did on Sunday with 1 decision to help one player out at the expense of the team.

Not really looking forward to this one given the form we have been in. But its a home game for me, so I will be going regardless. Thankfully Kilmarnock arent Celtic and McCann seems to be struggling to get any consistency out of his team, so should be a slightly more level playing field this week. Always nice to win these games as it means I get the bragging rights locally, but will be happy just to see some sort of structure and improvement around our performance. Saving grace is that Hibs play Falkirk, so even if we do lose heavily, we cant go bottom of the league as one of them will still be below us!

Wow! Really dont know where to start with all of that, so Im not going to bother with most of it. Fair bit of misrepresentation of some of my post, but that all seems pretty incidental to the point you were trying to make. Lets just say you lost me when you suggested that the problem with Vogt, maybe wasnt Vogt!

Absolutely all 100% true. But those booing need to give their head a wobble. No one ever got better by being booed off the park. Booing the team or the manager or even the officials at the end of the match is all fair game. Singling a player out, who is already struggling for confidence is such a bad look.

I think there is merit in a lot of what Star Sail AND Wellfan are saying. There is no doubt in my mind that our support is no better or worse than other clubs. Football fans in general are fickle and behave in similar tribalistic ways. However, I think we have to differentiate between considered debate (which I think has been the case for the most part on here) and some of the rampant toxicity you get on other social media platforms, where folks just vent their spleen. I do worry about the atmosphere at the ground though, as it hasnt taken long for the positivity and big crowds to drift away. The Helsinki game was only a month ago! I get the whole transition debate and Alfred should 100% be given the time to turn this around and show us what a team in his image is going to look like. But he is going to have to find some improvements quickly. That mind not mean winning loads of gamed in a swashbuckling style. But it has to show improved performances, more structure, some evidence that the players are taking on board the coaching. Thats what allowed Jens to get a pretty easy ride over the first couple of months. The naysayers and more vocal element in our support were kept quiet by performances, not results. Hopefully Alfred can find some of that soon.

I think its possible for fans to point out things they thought the manager got wrong without necessarily thinking they know better than the manager or could do a better job than him. Alfred clearly has way more coaching experience and knowledge than your average fan. But when he talks about certain things pre-match and you see none of it during the game, and then he comes out post match and says he got the starting line up correct, then eye brows will be raised. If you go down that route, I think you need to add a little flesh to the bones to back up why you think that. Otherwise, fans will quite rightly question your methods/thought process. If the manager talks about intensity, I expect to see intensity. If he talks about movement and rotations, I expect to see movement & rotations. He talked about lack of experience in the side, so I wasnt surprised to see SOD start especially when he talked up the senior pro's contribution in training. Whether we think it worked or not is another matter, but at least I can understand why he did that. Putting Willy in after a 3 week break where he has had time to work with him was a surprise. But given JT's recent form and the fact he has been away on his travels, I could understand it. However, he had another poor 45 minutes and he should have protected the player at half time. Similarly with Hodge. Playing him on the left, you intitially give him the benefit of the doubt as tactically you think he has seen something in Celtic that requires it. However, with the entire midfield being overun in the first 45, you expect to see a change for the second half. These arent highly technical tactical observations. Just very obvious things that may have improved our fate before the game was gone.

Im usually one of the last to turn, and tonight Im officially "concerned". Being beaten 2-0 by Celtic at home in itself isnt usually something to get perplexed about. But the nature of the performance and the failure of the manager to hold up his hands, or call it out are. There are many moving parts for which he will be given time. But some signs of a structure/gameplan/identity sometime soon, wouldnt go amiss.

Paulsen by a distance. With creditible mentions for Seb, who ploughed a lone furrow and Said who showed more in his brief cameo than most of the others combined.

He certainly had a bit of physicality about him, which was sorely missing today.

Alfred absolutely isnt going to be sacked anytime soon. The board have chosen a football philosophy for the club and appointed a manager to implement it. They simply have to stand by their man and give him time. However, he does have to start demonstrating he understands the problems and that he is able to coach improvement into the team and our performances. Jens didnt start well as far as points were concerned, but he was able to point to performances and quality of play as signs that things would get better. Right now our performances are getting worse and we are not picking up any points. One of those things needs to change.

Not gonna lie. Starting to get a bit concerned. I raised an eyebrow at the starting line up when I saw Vogt in it. However, I did feel more comfortable seeing Levitt's name on the teamsheet with what I felt sure looked like a box 4 midfield. What transpired though just looked weird. No idea why we set up the way we did with Hodge of the left. Lowry seemed to be playing in advance of Fadinger and Levitt with Vogt wide. It all appeared very lopsided. Ive heard Alfred talk throughout the break about wanting more intensity in and out of possession and about having more movement off the ball, but I didnt see any of that today. We let Celtic have the ball, didnt get in their faces, didnt track runners, didnt engage opponents in the tackle. It was so passive it was ridiculous. We were lucky to go in at the break only 1 down and the changes should have been made there and then. I really want Vogt to be a success, and he started brightly enough today, but he faded quickly again and by half time he needed hooked. Levitt was also having a very poor game, so I would have changed those 2 for Said and Kanga and moved Hodge back to the middle. The fact that Alfred waited until we were 2 down before making those changes is a real concern. As poor as we had been we were still in the game at that point and could have rescued something from the game. His comments afterwards are not filling me with confidence that he is seeing what we are seeing, or that he knows how to fix it. We now go to Kilmarnock next week where a heavy defeat could leave us at the bottom of the league. I do hope Im wrong about all of this as it IS too early to be calling for tge managers head. But its hard to ignore the alarm bells right now.

I think the biggest thing we miss about Slattery is his ability to take it in tight spaces and win fouls. It allowed us to get up the park and keep the pressure on opposing teams whenever it looked like they might get a foothold. Obviously he had great technical ability too, but I think Lowry has that in buckets. For me Just has been the biggest miss for his work rate and winning the ball back high up the pitch (not to mention his goals and assists), closely followed by Watt for his ability to dictate the tempo of the game. To lose all 3 in one window was a sore one. Hoping Oscar isnt far away from full fitness as his return will help us and a few more weeks on the training pitch should have helped build the relationships between Fadinger, Hodge and Lowry. Shame Williams has got injured as it would have been nice to see Longelo utilised further forward, but I guess he will maintain his LWB role for now. Looking forward to this today. Its been a long window, even for those of us who follow the national team, so good to get back to club football. Up The Well! 🧡❤️🧡

We are also 3 points off 5th. We do need to get points on the board sooner rather than later though. Not sure whether it will be tomorrow or not. Id settle for a good solid performance, to see that some of the work on the training pitch has been absorbed by the players. It would also be nice not to get ripped apart at the back.

I like Alfred. I think he treats interviews in a similar manner to Jens. Just with a little less menace! 😍😍😍

And telling Rangers fans they let their club die annoys them. Happy to play both sides of the coin! 😉😉😉

I think there is a general malaise right now because the sexy possession football stuff has been shown to be fallable. The overall feeling hasnt been helped by the fact that the SFA went down that route with Poconogli and the start he has had has been less than inspiring. Of course this totally feeds into our media machine and their old pals network of dinosaurs who are desperate to show that "Scottish Players Canny Play that way" Willie Miller on Sportsound on Tuesday night was a case in point. I did listen to The Hampden Roar Podcast today though and they had the Raith Rovers analyst on who has his A Licence and he was very much of the opinion that decent players of all levels can be coached to play this way and it just needs a bit of time on the training pitch. Hopefully we see an improvement on Sunday and, if Alfred is to be believed, the other side of the November break will be the time to truly judge him and this Motherwell team.

To be fair, when you get asked whether you are worried that the fans will not love you as much because the previous manager was better looking than you, Im not sure where he has to go! 😍😍😍

That would be hilariously funny! The meltdown would be spectacular! 😆😆😆

Watching the socials it appears that Oscar and Jordan McGhee are both back in training which is good news. Was also good to hear Alfred talk about intensity and movement in and out of possession. Shows that he has at least identified the problem. Ive felt all season that we just havent been showing for the ball enough and our rotations have been poor. Also Im not sure we have been working as hard off the ball to win it higher up the pitch. Whether he can coach that into the players remains to be seen. I guess we will find out on Sunday!

Its hard to know whether this would be a good idea or not. Ive heard people that know say that Gunn is the better goalkeeper. Ive also heard the same people say that Bain is better with his feet. Given our experience last year, having a keeper thats good with their feet can certainly help with the system Poconogli wants to play. If Bain is better with his feet, can he really be much worse than Gunn at catching it? It always feels like Gunn is a second slow going down to everything and his poppadom wrists are difficult to ignore. That said, if teams keep cutting thru us like a knife thru butter, does it matter who we play in goals? Maybe Lennon could get a shot there? 😆😆😆

Thats the problem......