star sail

I was just listening to Robinson's interview and thinking the same thing. If he chose to play Gallagher with a 40 C temp (which btw is totally irresponable if true), then Hartley must be injured or no longer part of the team plans.

I'm not sure that he is. There has been plenty of criticism of him moving Tait to the left hand side and re-shuffling the rest of the team. The big difference is that Neil Lennon has bought a £7 million? (I'm not that clued up on Celtic's transfer dealings) left back, that is available to him, that he does not trust enough to play. Robinson has a first choice left back (who's value is not even one tenth of this) who was not available last night. He then has to look to a young player like Livingstone, who is largely untested at this level or play Tait out of position. Lennon played another multi-million pound player in that position on Tuesday night albeit out of position. Lennon has luxuries that Robinson can only dream of.

I am not going to try and dress last nights performance up as anything more than poor but as always some perspective is needed. Firstly, it is only mid-August. The season has barely started. Secondly, Hearts were never going to be as poor as the pre-match hype suggested. Talk pre-match of Levein being sacked if they lost says more about the circus that is Scottish Football than it does about the current standard of the Hearts team. Remember, this is the side that ran Celtic close in the Scottish Cup Final only a few months ago. Hearts are a top six side and we will do well to finish anywhere close to them this season. The season so far has shown that our squad is better than a Championship side (Morton/ QoS) but poorer than a top six side (Hearts/ Celtic). In other words we are shaping up, at this very early stage to be a bottom six team. Where we end up in that group remains to be seen. My views on the starting 11 have not changed since last week. The midfield 3 are good enough to survive in this league I believe. The comparisons between Vigurs and Polworth are valid. Given that Vigurs is playing in a Ross County side that many feel will survive this season, it will be interesting to see how the two match up when we play them (I was one of the fans of Vigurs when he was with us admittedly). Vigurs was a player, that when on form, I was happy to pay money to watch. Campbell has proved himself already (or should have amongst the Motherwell support) and Donnelly, I think will contribute plenty this season. The big problem with our squad is the new wingers. I think it is fair to say that Hylton, Seedorf and Cole are a concern. They have contributed next to nothing in the last two games and in so doing have put the midfield three and the full backs under real pressure. I see Richard Tait coming in for some criticism but apart from the fact that he is playing on the wrong side of the pitch, he cannot be expected to make runs beyond a player he does not yet trust. His poor positional sense in recent games comes about because he is trying to second guess which way the ball will bounce as it bounces off of (Hylton/Seedorf/Cole). If Robinson has misjudged the ability of these players, we could indeed be in for a relegation battle but it is simply too early to tell. I remember going to ICT in the first game of the season under Baraclough and thinking that Louis Moult looked lightweight and that Wes Fletcher was going to be our main goalscorer for the season. Look how that turned out. Last night was always going to be the first real test of how our season might pan out. A good playing surface against a team we should have aspirations to match if we want to improve on last season. Unfortunately the signs do not look great but it is still very early days.

Thanks for that. Explains the situation with Cluj a little more.

I suppose that Jake Hastie and David Turnbull are perfect examples of this. I sometimes wonder if it would be too naive to wish that an agreement could be reached whereby the OF did not hoover up the best players in other Scottish teams. Competition would be beneficial to the OF and yet they short sightedly weaken the competition by buying the best players in the league. I suppose that the argument would be that if they did not buy these players English clubs would.

According to a quick Google search Cluj, have an average attendance of 4000. What is it that allows these teams to come to Glasgow and compete with the old firm when Scottish teams find it nearly impossible? Is it training methods, a strong mentality, a natural ability that Scottish players simply don't have? Surely the Romanian league is not awash with money? I have been very critical in the past about the culture surrounding Scottish football. The level of professionalism was at times shocking (Paul Le Guens battle at Rangers being a perfect example) . However things seem to have improved significantly in recent years in this regard and yet we do not seem to be making inroads into the massive gulf between the technical abilities of the Scottish teams against some relatively small teams in other European leagues. The problem cannot be money alone and yet I have no idea what else makes that difference.

Celtic were not allowed to start for the first 20 minutes. Gifting them their first goal changed the mood of the game completely. I thought we were excellent up until we scored. High tempo, high pressing, accuracy in the pass. Certainly signs of what could be this season. Their goal knocked the wind out of our sails and we never recovered. All the hard work was wiped out on their first attack and the players allowed it to get to them. I did not think the problem lay in our midfield three and infact I thought Donnelly, Campbell and Polworth were fantastic in the first half. The problem was more the lack of effectiveness of the much heralded new players. Too often there was no end product from Sedoorf, Hylton and Long leaving the midfield three too much to carry on their own. I am happy to give them time because those players faced a level of opposition today that they will rarely have faced in their careers. However, sadly it showed leaving the midfield three far too much ground to cover. Five shots on target and five goals from Celtic tells a story. They have a quality in their side that we can only dream of and to have Christie, Sinclair and Edouard coming off the bench when our players were visibly tiring makes a nonsense of any faint hope that they would suffer a midweek European hangover. Celtic should not be in the same league as us but the quirks of geography and political history means that they are a huge fish in a tiny pond and today it showed. Gillespie has been excellent for us so those calling for him to be replaced after one poor performance is nonsense. Certainly enough to give us hope and Hearts will be a far more reliable test of the true position of our squad at this moment in time. Finally, I think Gallacher looks a real find. He was unlucky today with the free kick and the yellow card was a nonsense but sadly I think that affected him because up until then he looked in complete control.

Gillespie will be delighted with your support and backing.

I'm no Sherlock Holmes but 'absolute pelters' from the stand would have been the cause of the nervousness I think. Why do football fans never learn that giving your own team pelters never works.

Celtic had a poor (by their standards) end to last season and have not strengthened significantly over the summer. They have not been properly tested so far this season and I think the St Johnstone result says more about where SJ are at this moment in time than it does about Celtics form. Having said that it shows what Celtic can do if a team is off the pace. I'm not sure that the European game has any real impact, it certainly hasn't in the past. The players are very fit these days and don't tend to suffer Euro hangovers. Sadly, I think Celtic will be too strong but we can still make life difficult for them and you never know what can happen if we are still in it beyond the hour mark. I would like to see how Lennon's Celtic would react under a bit of pressure. I fear a narrow defeat but I don't think we will suffer the same fate as St Johnstone. Hard to see where the goals are going to come from so I am going for a hard fought 1-0 defeat. However as always I hold out that little bit of hope that we could be in for a surprise. I used to hate when our managers (McGhee and McCall were terrible for it) displayed such a defeatist attitude against the OF but I have wasted too much energy on blind optimism over the years to continue making that mistake.

LOL. It must be difficult being a supporter when your team give you no joy, no hope, no sense of pride, no entertainment...…… Basically no pleasure whatsoever. First game of the proper season so whilst we can't define it as pre-season, the first day often throws up unusual results and rusty performances. Add the pitch into this equation and this game was always likely to be a bit of a lottery. I have mixed views about the result yesterday and can see the arguments on both sides. I think it is naive to think that the pitch did not affect the performance but at the same time it can not be the only reason for a mediocre performance yesterday. The strong league cup performances have now been put well and truly into context. A Premier league side were always going to show up more of the cracks in our newly formed squad so it is only natural that the early optimism has been tempered somewhat. The biggest concern for me is, as Ya Bezzer! pointed out, that their midfield looks stronger than ours. Livingston are my tip for the drop this season so that they appear to have a stronger midfield would be a concern. I wonder how much the uncertainty regarding Turnbull's future has upset the planning in that particular area of the pitch. Let's hope that Sloth provides a bit of strength in that area when he gains full fitness. I remember a similar situation last year with Gorrin, who did not feature early season but became a mainstay of the team as the season progressed. No hiding place unfortunately with Celtic and Hearts coming to Firpark over the next few weeks. I don't think we are going to get a true sense of the merits of this squad until September. A draw away from home in the first game of the season is no bad thing. Livingston was a touch place to go last season so it's a decent result even if the performance has left us with more questions than answers.

In my original post, I was distinguishing between the City clubs and the rest. Apoligies if that was not clear. Getting in amongst the top 5 seems to me like a big step forward. 6th place is really best of the rest. Turnbull would provide the extra quality to help us break that ceiling, hence my prediction. Only one place in terms of league position but a significant one. Hope that clears it up Londonwell.

For me, the season ahead is going to be defined by the fortunes of David Turnbull. If he returns fully fit and showing the form of last season and if we can then keep him for the season, I think we have the makings of a strong top 6 side. It will always be very difficult to displace the city clubs so 6th place would be a big step forward. However, if Turnbull is fit and playing I think we have the squad to break into the top 5. So my prediction: with Turnbull 5th (splitting the Edinburgh teams), without 6th My other prediction is that we will lose our manager. He must be starting to show on the radar of clubs down South. If we have a strong start to the season and are top 6 by Christmas, I think he will become hot property. So a top six finish with a new manager by the end of the season.

Why? Admittedly, this seems to be the way it is with modern football where nobody at boardroom level takes any responsibility leaving managers isolated, one or two games away from the sack should it all go wrong (Old Firm mentality). Thankfully at Motherwell they seem to do things differently. I have said a number of times before that I identify with MFC as a club because they look out for their own. Going back to the days of John Chapman, Bill Dickie etc there seemed to be a simple honesty and integrity in the way in which the club was run. That tradition continues and Alan Burrows and the wider board at Motherwell seem to foster mutual respect and trust. I believe fully that were Robinson managing a different team, he would have been sacked at Christmas (as some on these boards wanted), but the people in power at Motherwell looked at the bigger picture, backed their man and look what happened. Why should the board wait? They have the facts in front of them. They have presumably signed off on the new players. They know what they have to work with so collectively they are standing by the decisions they have made and backing their man. It is hugely refreshing and for me what makes out club slightly different. I am delighted with this news. Robinson seems to be a very hard working, professional young manager who has a bright future ahead. That he is assisted by one of our on in Keith Lasley makes the fit all the better. It has not all been plain sailing but I think the fact that Robinson was able to bring the team out of a slight tail spin in December should commend him to us all the more.

This in a nutshell is why Scottish football is miles behind the rest of Europe. An acceptance of mediocrity. Maybe you were joking with your comment? Professional football players should not drink. Rebelling against a manager because he has to tell you not to have a drink would be embarrassing for our senior players if this were true. There was clearly a tension between the senior players and Gannon from the outset. I am not going to pretend to know the truth as to why but I heard enough at the time to know that Gannon was not impressed by their professionalism (whether this was justified or not, I have no idea). This may have been mentioned above but I realised today that Gannon has secured promotion for Stockport County into the National league after two or three years of steady progression in the National League North. The man cannot be that much of a mug!!!

I agree regarding Brown and Knox but to assume that anybody could have signed players to keep us up is for me a blatant refusal to give the man any credit. Look at the money McLeish wasted in the transfer market as Motherwell manager. Would you have trusted him with the rebuild?

That was a very interesting time to be a Well fan. I don’t think we should forget the mess McGhee left behind. The squad had been neglected with McGhee looking elsewhere for some time before he actually left. I still maintain that Gannon ensured our SPL status the following season thanks to his signings alone. We also have to remember that European football was secured the following season thanks to his fair play philosophy. I sometimes wonder, if Jim O Brien had scored that penalty against Rangers could it all have been different. I fear sadly not. There was the potential for a very good manager in there but either he did not want it to work or he simply did not have the tools at the time to make it work. His contribution was greater than many are prepared to acknowledge but I think the same can be said of all the non Scottish managers of the last decade (Baraclough and Robinson being the others). We would not be an SPL team at this time we’re it not for interventions from these men at critical times. Sadly you will get little acknowledgement of that amongst many of the fans at FP.

Surely that would give us an unfair advantage. There must be laws against that, intellectual doping or something? We would be winning everything in sight, League, Scottish Cup, Champions League probably even the World Cup as well.

I love this 'usual suspects' chat. It always makes me think of the ant hill mob lurking away is some dark corner of the steelmen online site waiting to attack us with negative vibes. Last night they were being blamed for a negative reaction to the Crusaders friendly (when actually nobody was saying very much) and today for not giving the club due credit (when actually the comments have been very positive). I bet they will be along in a minute though to spread their vile. Darn those usual suspects!!!

Crisis?!

Once again I am staggered by the negativity (I should not be. I have been reading this forum long enough). The reality is that we have smashed our record transfer fee out the park on a player that is only 19 years old. Why has this happened? Did we just happen to strike it lucky with Turnbull, a Motherwell fan and local lad. To a very small degree, yes because he undoubtedly has natural ability but Turnbull is a product of decisions made some years ago now by the Board and Alan Burrows to invest in youth development. He has been nurtured through a system that allows good young talent to fulfil their potential. This is something we should be congratulating the club on. My opinion is that we are ahead of most, if not all, clubs in Scotland in this regard. Stephen Craigan must take a lot of credit too. This is something we should be celebrating, not criticising. Regarding the player himself, the money involved in his move to Celtic will be life changing. He is 19 years old with huge decisions to make about his future. Let's cut him some slack and just enjoy watching him develop, knowing that he is a Motherwell produced Motherwell fan, who has come good. The hypocrites on here who would no doubt sell their Grannies for a lot less, get the chance to take the theoretical moral high ground because they have not been successful enough to be making these decisions for themselves. I think you have to have walked in Turnbull's shoes before you can start spouting forth about his decision making. Like all Motherwell fans, I will be walking out of Firpark gutted if he is scoring for fun against us next season, but that's football. Let's enjoy the benefits that the transfer money will bring, be appreciative of Motherwell's forward thinking as we enjoy watching the young players break into the first team and take some pride in watching David Turnbulls career take off if he genuinely does have the potential we all think he has.

I have not been on the forums for some months because I got tired of the negativity of some regarding the club and the manager. I was enticed back on this morning though because I was interested to hear the thoughts on Turnbull's possible departure. No matter what happens , I think it is important to take note of the position we are in just now regarding our young players. Turnbull will leave (now or in the future) for a club record fee. He could be part of the future of the Scottish midfield for years to come. Hastie went to Rangers having been one of the most dynamic players in the league this season. He would have commanded a significiant fee had he not been out of contract and I would not be surprised if he too featured in the future as part of what will hopefully be a Scotland renaissance under Steve Clark. Campbell and Cadden are already part of the Scotland set up. Admittedly both players have reached a bit of a ceiling at the moment but they are still young with bright futures ahead. To have four players of that standard coming directly from Motherwell's youth set up is fantastic and something we should be proud of. There will be few (if any) clubs in Britain with resources similar to ours that can boast of that kind of success with it's youth system. I have no idea about Turnbull's true monitory value but what I would like to see in any deal is that he is loaned back to us for one more season. That would be worth a £1 million on it's own for me because we just might be looking at Motherwell's greatest ever export (at lesast as good as O' Donnell, McFayden, McAllister) and the pleasure of having him play at Firpark for one more season would be priceless.

I have been a member on these boards since 2009. Over time you get to know the posters. They remain anonymous but their forum names become well known to the people who read the forum regularly. I have absolutely no problem with differences of opinion. It is the differences of opinion that make these boards successful. The post above resonates with me for two reasons, one because Kmcaplin (whoever you are) is a great example for me of a familiar name on these boards, who's opinion I sometimes disagree with but always respect because the opinions are always reasonable, fair and rational. He (I am assuming he because of my narrow minded, last century view of the footballing world) never that I can recall, attacks players or managers personally and seems to have a sensible view of Motherwell's natural position in the footballing food chain. A poster above said 'Criticism is part and parcel of a football managers job'. Sadly, this is true, but sometimes that is an excuse to allow faceless people on football forums to hurl all sorts of abuse at managers, when quite possibly these same people are not reaching the elite heights of excellence and performance in their own lives. We put an expectation on football managers at times that goes beyond what is reasonable. Secondly this post resonates with me because by admitting that possible she (in the interests of balance and with the pretense of having an enlightened view of the modern world) got it wrong, Kmcalpin displays the same attributes that Stevie Robinson has shown in turning our season round. The ability to see that mistakes were made and change it is a sign of a very good manager. My feeling is that in Stevie Robinson we may actually have won a watch. Time will tell. This is a very long winded way of saying that the post above is a great post!!!

I think that this should be a real source of pride for the club. The culture in football now is to sack managers at the first hint of trouble. In Scotland, the clamber to sack managers was the domain of Old Firm fans who believed that a victory every Saturday was a God given right. Sadly it is an attitude that has filtered into all clubs at all levels of the game including our own. Fortunately in this case, Alan Burrows and the board were able to look deeper than the poor on field performances at a man who is working his socks off to improve all levels of the club from recruitment, to training, to coaching structures to youth development etc. A young, driven professional manager who, whilst still learning the ropes has acted throughout with the best interests of the club at heart. Some of the comments on these boards in recent months have made for difficult reading. Personal attacks on Robinson and Burrows, and a complete disregard for the hours of work that they put into the club. It would be nice to think that a few lessons have been learnt now that the fortunes have turned around. We should be seen as a club who supports our managers, our players and particulary our young players. The board has led the way, the fans need to do the same. I am delighted for the manager, the players and for Burrows. That the goals in recent weeks have been home grown has made it all the sweeter.