star sail

I really feel that we could sneak a draw today. It would be a huge point if we can get it Of the matches mentioned above, the 4-2 semi final game was my favourite. One of the best nights ever, football or not, with some world class goals thrown in For all I enjoyed the play offs eventually it was a nerve shredding week that I would not like to experience again. Skippy Sunday did nothing for me other than the normal satisfaction that comes from beating the OF. It had been an average season generally for Motherwell and I have never really understood the joy with which some Motherwell fans celebrated that result. Each to their own I suppose.

I wonder if we are reaching an equilibrium point in Scottish Football where each season we will lose three quarters of the top flight managers. There has been seven stackings in the league already this season. The trend seems to be going like this: the second place manager of Rangers and Celtic loses his job. Van Bronkhorst lost his and Michael Beale is probably only a couple of poor results away from losing his. Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen have set our their stall as the 3 rd place team in Scotland. Don't finish 3rd, you lose your job. Jim Goodwin and Robbie Neilson gone, Lee Johnston a couple of poor results away from losing his job. Then there is the safe haven of mid-table. St Mirren and Livi are sitting nicely in those spots. Martindale and Robinson must have the safest jobs in British football at the moment. Then there is the 8th-12 th black hole. Get within 6 to 9 points of relegation and club owners/ directors get nervous. Davidson at St Johnstone is the latest victim. Hammell and Fox are already ancient history. Will Mackay at RC and/or McIness at Killie keep their jobs if these teams go down? So only three from twelve teams (Celtic, St Mirren, Livi) have managers that can sleep easy at this time. We hear that it is a result driven business. So what is the result that's driving the business? It is certainly not long term development of clubs or a nurturing environment for young players. It seems like the owners of the clubs have no real notion of what the result or destination is. The vision is short sighted if it exists at all. Maybe the manager merry go round is just part of the entertainment package now. A side show as enthralling, if not more so than the football itself. Certainly the lust for blood seems to be shared by football directors and some supporters alike. That there is rumblings about Kettlewell after one poor results seems ridiculous, but it simply a reflection of the crazy world that football now inhabits..

We are safe for this season. Whilst one of RC, Utd or Killie may go on a 4-5 game winning streak it is highly unlikely that all three teams ( or two of the three) will. They will take points off each other on the way as well so it would take an exceptional set of circumstances for us to end in the bottom two now. Every draw in the last round of games will play into our hands as well. One more win for us, if it does not come against Livi ( I have written the Celtic game off)will 100% seal the deal.

What makes you say that? I thought 37 points was generally considered the marker for safety based on the last decade or so. Are you working on the basis that Killie, Utd and RC will take points off each other and that two of the three can't now reach 33 points?

Indeed. If we look back to the Kilmarnock game at FP now, that point cannot be better illustrated. That one result seemed to completely derail Stevie Hammell's spell as manager. Would Hammell still be the manager now if we had won that night? The facts will show that we got one point that night and one point yesterday but the emotions that surround the result are very different. It is for that reason that I think that we may well look back on Slattery's goal as the one that keeps us safe this year. A defeat yesterday would have pulled us right back into the relegation battle with Kettlewell having to lift the players for a massive game this coming weekend. As it is the mood stays positive and everybody makes the long trip to Dingwall with optimism. The goal will have been a real body blow to Killie's morale yesterday. The quality in the playing squads between the teams in 4th to 12 th are so similar that it is moments like Polworth's wonder goal at FP or Slattery's free kick yesterday that can change the fortunes of a season. Confidence is king.

If for whatever reason Kettlewell was to turn the offer down, it would leave the club in a difficult situation. You would imagine that McCann or Holloway would not be happy about being second choice to a relative rookie. It could mean that the process would have to start again. Also if Kettlewell was to turn the offer down, would he be in a compromised position for taking the team this coming weekend? Hopefully they are just ironing out the details and it will all be resolved soon.

I think by cheap option people mean affordable option. This is maybe the point you are making. Jack Ross has been spooked by something and if it is wages then it gives us an idea as to the market we are working in. As a mindless and wild conspiracy theory however, Ross could have been persuaded by Alan Burrows that he is under serious consideration for Aberdeen. I suppose this highlights the compromising situation than AB finds himself in just now. Hand tied for two jobs. As a complete guess, I would think we are closer to the Ian Murray, Kettlewell, McPake market than the Holloway, Ross, McCann one. I think opting for Hammell in the summer showed this. It was a decision influenced by considerable financial constraints.

Jack Ross would be my choice. Putting his 7 games at Dundee Utd aside his management record is impressive. Regularly around 50% win rate. Third place finish and two cup finals with Hibs. I suspect that if he wants it, it will be his. He will have a point to prove so he will be motivated. Exciting prospect should it come to pass.

Football is a simple game. Hard work goes a long way. Great result. Let's hope it kickstarts the season.

Any suggestion from what we have seen tonight that the players had downed tools for Hammell, or is it just a new manager bounce?

This is a very good point. Every name mentioned has failed at some stage unless they have not been tested before at our level in which case they are rookies. Jack Ross. Jim Goodwin. Tommy Wright. Tam Courts. John Hughes Ian Murray. James McPake. This is just a sample but they all share at least one failure in common

Ian Murray has always impressed me as a manager . I have never liked the idea of going for the guy that just showed you up, because I think that is what happened with Harri Kampmann but Murray seems like an intelligent, articulate young manager with a good amount of experience under his belt. On Hughes, I would actually take him just now if it was simply to keep us safe this season. The more I look at the current situation, the more I think that the problem is confidence. I thought Kelly looked like a rabbit in the headlights in his interview yesterday and he is our captain. I think Yogi could actually be a calming influence and one that could take the weight off the players shoulders a bit whilst being a disciplinarian if necessary. I think the romance of a young manager with a 5 year plan and a passion for playing young players ( that was supposed to be Hammell) is an ideal that may have to be set aside for now. Ian Murray seems like the closest to a compromise in that regard but I can see the merits of a very short term solution. I don't think James McPake should be ruled out either. Dunfermline were in free fall when he took over (infact did Hughes not have a go with them?). His win percentage with them is fairly exceptional. Is it not upwards of 70%? We just have to hope our board are really doing their homework and not just picking names out a hat from a list they made at a board meeting on Monday.

Was looking at Kettlewell's managerial stats with RC. 44% wins as co manager, 29% wins on his own. His managerial time at RC spans 3 years. I always felt that Jim McIntyre did a great job with RC. Remember the year Motherwell finished in the play of place, RC under McIntyre went on a fantastic unbeaten run in the second half of that season to pull them to safety. I think he was sacked recently from ( was it Cove Rangers?) but maybe harshly? It will be interesting to see how Kettlewell sets up the team tomorrow evening and how the players respond. I'm sure I heard a quote from him about keeping the instructions simple. I wonder if maybe he has had feedback that Hammell paralyzed the team with instruction and over analysis? This is wild speculation on my part as ever. I remember listening to an interview with a Kilmarnock player on Radio Scotland back in October (can't remember who) that commented on the simplicity of Steve Clarke management style. He said it took a burden off the players and was the key to his success at Killie. He said that new young managers had a tendency to overcomplicate things. Certainly Kettlewell would need to fight it out with Jim Goodwin for best groomed manager. I think either of these managers could challenge Van Veen for the title of head hipster at the club.

He is younger but he does have more first team management experience. I felt that he was treated rather harshly by Dundee. They were struggling, yes but performances fell off a cliff when he left. Dundee were in a similar situation then to the one we find ourselves in now. He seemed to be keeping their heads above water, just. I wondered on Saturday if the board at Motherwell already had a new manager lined up should they lose to Raith. It seems like that was not the case, unless Lambert was the target and he rejected an offer on the Sunday. The mood music does suggest that they might be more likely to approach a target this time as opposed to relying on applications.

That is a very 21st century response but I think that even in a modern, progressive, enlightened society there is much about Rangers as a football club to be wary of. I am a good old Church of Scotland boy so the religious and political bigotry is not aimed at me personally but I still find it hugely distateful even in these most tolerant of times. I know that the very same religious and political bigotry exists with Celtic but from a purely footballing perspective I would identify (another 21st century word) with the footballing philosophy of Celtic more than I ever would Rangers. Let's not forget that in the very recent past Rangers seeked to gain an unfair advantage from a form of financial doping. It is a club that seems to see itself at times as being above the rules in a footballing sense alone. Rangers men from our recent past may not have shared much of that sentiment but they seem to carry some of the baggage that the press alone will not let them forget. The deference they show as Motherwell managers in games against Rangers and the continual questioning by the press of Rangers matters rather than Motherwell matters are things I would rather do without. I had a lot of affection for Stuart McCall and Terry Butcher but there was still that sense throughout that they were Rangers men managing Motherwell. TB's celebrations on helicopter Sunday being an example of something that given a choice, I would rather not see again. If David Healy is a 'Rangers man' in the true sense of the word then that would be a no for me. Let's not forget that Kyle Lafferty has just served a 10 match ban for displaying some of his Rangers leaning tendencies as a Kilmarnock player. Again if given a choice, I would rather not be associated with that kind of culture in any way as a football fan. It is exactly that kind of culture that we should try and avoid if possible, particularly in the 21st century. This usual suspects chat seems to be becoming increasingly common to represent anybody who does not agree with the views of the poster.

I agree. If you had to pick a name who would you go for? Who do you think can have the maximum amount of impact in the shortest space of time?The whole club needs a lift and possibly a bit of light heartedness. Who can do that whilst maintaining discipline and respect? Maybe a John Hughes character is closest to what we need at this moment in time? As always it is a tough call.

The ability to organise the team, motivate them and manage any dressing room splits will be the same whether embroiled in a relegation battle or fighting to win the league. I found it interesting in the summer when names like Lennon, Lambert, Mackay were being written off by some as not good enough. It is proof positive that no matter who our board appoint, it will not be met with universal enthusiasm. I know that Neil Lennon is a particularly polarising character but a man who has significant Champions League experience as well as a few league titles under his belt, certainly has the experience and skill set to manage Motherwell. No appointment is going to ensure our league survival but NL would give us a better chance than most. Tax issues aside however, I don't think Motherwell could offer a manager of that experience enough to make it enticing. The stars may aline with Lambert given that he has a history with the club and is looking to build his reputation again. A man with 14-15 years experience in the top flight in England is a man we should be delighted to welcome to Motherwell. I scratch my head sometimes when these names are written off as not suitable.

All would be forgiven if he could save us from relegation. He was a great player for us and his worth in the team was not fully recognised till he was gone. He and Tommy Coyne are my favourite Motherwell players in my football going lifetime. Gritty, intelligent player with a fair amount of ability. If he could instill some of that into our current playing squad it would be a master stroke. I would be excited by this if it happened.

Normally I would be arguing exactly this. I am not a fan of sacking managers, and I find the manager merry-go-round in Scotland hugely depressing but tonight had a desperate feel about it. I do wonder if it is worth almost accepting relegation and giving SH time to build his team and get the experience that would come with it but our support will not allow that. I don't think any support in the world would. The confidence of the players is completely shattered. Is there another Craig Brown out there that could breath confidence into these players? I can't think of anyone.

Of course you are entitled to an opinion. I just generally don't agree with it. No. That is the why I think time is up for him but as I said before, having been given the job, I think he deserved time and our support to try and make it work.

You talk about the usual suspects as if backing the players and managers we have is something to be ashamed of. If memory serves me right, you are one of the usual suspects that has wanted every manager of the last 6-7 years sacked and look where we are now. Continually sacking managers is not a long term recipe for success. Remember you thought Robinson was shite? Look how St Mirren are doing at the moment. I am somebody who has backed every manager till the end ( except Malpas) but sadly I am going to go against that now and say that SH should probably walk. I did not think it was a good appointment in the summer. It was a huge gamble that has not worked. It does not give me any pleasure to say it and I don't regret giving him the benefit of the doubt over the last 6 months but time is up.

Interesting that you say we have been in decline for 5 years. We finished 3rd in 2020. That was less than 3 years ago. Do you think the large majority expect relegation? Remember the voices on here do not represent the majority. All the others around us are still around us. If as fans we genuinely expect that we will get one point from the next seven and that we are as good as finished, how can we expect the team that we (supposedly) support to show any belief or fight. The negativity is taking on new levels now. There is still nothing that suggests we are favourites for the drop. The support needs to show some belief. The negativity is transmitted to the players whether we like to relieve ourselves of all responsibility or not.

They have fishermen in Iceland though and there was a few fishermen in that Stjarnaan team. We can laugh but it's an embarrassment all the same.

They still should not be beating Aberdeen. The problem for me is that Aberdeen did not go into the game with the correct mental attitude. You could apply the same argument to our defeat against Sligo. It is a lack of professionalism that seems to show itself time and again in Scotland and seems to be excused time and again. We seem more than happy at times to make excuses for the teams in the top division, the classic being ' it is too early in the season' when Scottish teams get dumped out of Europe in July by part time European minnows. A team of tradesman, fisherman, bank managers and school teachers should never be beating a full time professional football team at any time of the year. To try and masquerade this post as an ins and Outs discussion ( sorry Melvin), would we sign any of those Darvel players for Motherwell? Probably not.

I think unfortunately it shows just how poor the standard is in the top division of Scottish Football. If the top teams in Scotland were truly professional, results like tonight would never happen. It is a fairytale result for Darvel but embarrassing for Scottish Football in general. Could Motherwell ever beat Barcelona? No. It would never happen and that would be two full time professional teams playing each other. The gulf between a Junior Team and a full time team in Scotland should be as big as that but it is not. As fans we accept the mediocrity in the professional game in Scotland all to readily. Most worryingly of all Darvel looked the better team throughout. That was no fluke result.