star sail

A bit of perspective needed I think. I am not going to make a case for the performance because anybody would be hard pushed to say it was good or entertaining. Before the season started I felt that we would see a split in the league this season for the first time in a long time. Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs have all got their acts together in recent times and are genuine top five teams. Kilmarnock then bridge the middle ground thanks to a manager who is one of the best in the league. The rest, ourselves included, are fighting for best of the rest and it is no surprise to see the bottom five teams at this moment. I think Livingston may join that party soon enough although they have given themselves a healthy cushion this early in the season. The facts are that we have had two wins (if you count the Livi Cup win), one draw and one defeat against our immediate peers and but for a couple of wonder goals that picture may have looked even brighter. There are problems to address and Robinson most definitely has his work cut out but I can think of many times in the past that I have walked out onto Firpark Street at quarter to five on a Saturday having watched the worst Motherwell performance EVER!!

Much of what you say is true in your post but I think this part is particularly telling. Motherwell always have and always will be a team that live on the margins of success and failure. They are always one or two players that can make a poor season a good one. In every aspect of the clubs business they have to work harder to compete with the bigger teams. Fitness, recruitment, tactics etc all have to be worked for that little bit more. For this reason losing the players you mention above is massive for a team like ours. Robinson himself said that the loss of Dunne was a huge blow and possibly the one player in the squad that he could least afford to lose. The important thing for me is that the loss of these players is not Robinsons fault. In fact he brought each one of these players to the club. Having these players playing and on form may have brought about a very different start to the season. Should Robinson lose his job on the back of this misfortune? You mentioned Campbell. Robinson brought him into the team. A player from the youth set up who was brought in at the right time with great success. This is again a positive for the manager and contradicts slightly the theory that he never plays the young players. Moult was indeed for a time the best striker in the league. It was always going to be a tough ask to replace him and yes so that as proved. Should Robinson lose his job on the back of this. You neglect to mention in your post once more the Cup run. You mention the Aberdeen game in the League Cup and I agree, that was Robinsons finest moment at the club to date. However to dismiss the other Cup games against all Premiership opposition as of no consequence or flukes as others have argued is harsh in the extreme. The performances against Hearts at home and Rangers at Hampden in particular were very good. I have been watching Motherwell since 1980 and have never had the good fortune of seeing to Cup Finals in one season untill last season. Should Robinson lose his job at this time when we have not yet finished the first round of matches? If Robinson does not make it through the next four/ five games the one thing I can guarantee is this, that the new man whoever that might be will be living on the margins just the same, because that is the nature of the club we support I

I am trying to get my head around the fact that we got lucky against Accies, Dundee, Hearts and Aberdeen (x2). I think Rangers were in there as well on the way to a league cup final. That certainly is a lot of luck over 540 minutes of football. Unfortunately I just can't get my head around it, which makes me think that maybe it was not so lucky after all.

Just enjoying the highlights again and the McHugh goal gets better every time I watch it. Beautiful delivery from Bigi and a sublime cushioned header into the far corner. Superb goal. Love the celebration too when he peels away giving the Rangers fans the stare. Happy days!!!

I have no time for Thomson as a ref, particularly after last season but I thought he managed the game well today in difficult conditions. One or two inconsistencies but no game changing mistakes.

I'm certainly going soft keeping up to date with this thread. I read the last sentence as 'Nose about hehaw in my opinion'. Time to call it a night I think. Hartley has to put in a captains performance now. Hard, non compromising but calm. He puts a foot out of place on Sunday and I think he will be off.

I think when Hartley says 'that was fun to watch' he is referring to Cardossa's reaction rather than the challenge itself. However it is easy to misinterpret and there will be plenty of people, particularly Rangers supporters and many within the media, that will be more than happy to misinterpret what was said. Regardless, it was a really stupid comment to make and it does not inspire confidence in the qualities of our captain to lead the team. He has put the club on the back foot before a ball is kicked, in a fixture where the dice are already loaded against us. Ironically as a support, we have been crying out for some time for the club to be less submissive in their pre-match interviews when playing the Old Firm and since Robinson has arrived at the club as manager the noises before Old Firm games have been far more positive. This is a step too far however and this comment smacks of the thuggery that the club have been having to defend themselves against in recent times for daring to go toe to toe with the Old Firm. Hartley's comments are a real shot in the foot and in bad taste. If I was Ryan Bowman, I would be furious tonight. He has had to distance himself from claims of being a dirty player and time would have been nullifying those claims but his captains comments have put him back into the firing line and compromises his game on Sunday.

Not when we are talking about the pot luck ( or lack of) for the knockout ties. Ofcourse this takes no account either of two cup semi finals that we won at Hampden against Premiership opposition.

3 out of 10 if you allow recent times to include Season 16/17. The two ties that season were away at Parkhead and Ibrox. 10 consecutive ties against premiership opposition with only 3 at home represents a fairly tough set of draws unless it doesn't suit you to look at it that way. ☺

We have been really unfortunate with the cup draws in recent times. Very few home draws to speak of in the knock out phases in recent years. I can't remember the last time we drew a non premiership team either. Morton knocked us out of the league cup a few seasons back. Have we had a lower division side since then? Ayr Utd at home would have been perfect. Rangers have that. They have been fairly fortunate with cup draws over the last few seasons by comparison. The fact that the draw has been so unkind in recent years makes last years cup success all the more impressive. If we could beat Hearts at Tynecastle , I think the term cup specialists would be more than justified. A tough tie but winnable.

On this we can agree. I really hope that Bigi turns out to be the player that we all hope him to be. If he can put in performances like the Cup Final then it will be like having a new signing.

If I was a player who felt he had been unfairly left out of a starting 11 because the managers favoured style of play did not suit my own, I would be very reluctant to sit in front of the assembled media and give a bullshit story about how the reasons for me being out of favour was that I wasn't trying hard enough. Your guess is as good as mine as to the reality of the situation. My original point was that it surprises me how some players always seem to get the benefit of the doubt whilst others do not. Your guess as to what happened last season is sympathetic to Bigiramana's cause despite the fact that the player himself has given a different account of events. This back's up my original point that some players get given the benefit of the doubt whilst some players/managers do not.

I don't think that it is good PR for manager or player to be publicly admitting to having a player that is to some extent going through the motions. I realise that you did not use the word 'good' but if the club is going to prepare some fluff, they should make up some good fluff.

Really? Admits he was not trying hard enough last season and this makes him a top guy? If one of the whipping boys of yester-year such as Marc Fitzpatrick had admitted to not trying hard enough would that have made him a top guy? The article certainly explains why Robinson was not picking him. Turns out it has little to do with Robinson not liking creative players, and all to do with Robinson not picking a player who lacked fitness and motivation. It is human nature for a player to have a poor season for the reasons mentioned so I am not judging Bigi. It just always interests me how some players, for no apparent reason suddenly seem to be beyond all reproach whilst others get hounded week after week.

So we fluked two cup finals beating Aberdeen, Rangers and Hearts along the way? You can spin things any way you like if you want to. I will not pretend that we have had a good start to the season and I agree that the style of football could be greatly improved but to write off two cup finals and a 7th place finish last season suggests to me that expectation is unrealistically high.

A tough first game of the season. With the exception of Livingston, we had the hardest tie of the first weekend. For all the columns of debate being taken up in the press arguing about who will finish second between Rangers and Aberdeen, my money would be on Hibs to finish second this season. Good manager who has assembled a good squad. Away points are going to be hard to come by against any of the city teams this season so I suspect that todays result may be a taster of things to come. My feeling is that we are fighting for sixth and actually if Killie can keep Steve Clarke, and keep Kris Boyd fit for the season, I think they will have sixth sown up. That leaves the rest, 7-12. Robinson has assembled a squad to fight this battle. It will be the games against these teams that will define our season. Sadly for me the difference may be this season that we don't have a squad with quite the same drive and determination as last season. If guys like Main don't buy into the cause (and there are signs already that he may not be) then the spark that gave us the edge over the bottom six last season could vanish. Robinson did an outstanding job last season but I fear that he may be running out of ideas. With one of the smallest budgets in the league it is little wonder that he is resorting to bringing in the type of player that served him well last season but without the intensity that brought success last season I fear that the squad does not have the quality required to match last seasons achievements. I wish him well because he has a touch job ahead of him. Like everybody else I would like our style of play to improve and like everyone else I hope that the quality we need may come from Bigi but I fear that there is a reason why he does not start games that runs deeper than Robinson's preferred style of play. It is the first game of the season but there was enough evidence in the league cup games to suggest that the team is struggling at this moment in time. It can all change ofcourse but I am not sure where the spark is going to come from. I hope that our next signing will be the one that sparks the team into life but with the money that Robinson will have to spend I do not know where that player will come from.

Was it not Robinson that gave Allan Campbell a chance. I'm sure that if the young players are ready and good enough they will get a chance.

Yes, that's the one.

Vigurs could be hit or miss but two of the most skillful pieces of football I have ever seen watching Motherwell involved him. The first was a pass he made at Tynecastle to Ainsworth (I think?) from central midfield to the right side of midfield that was not only inch perfect but also showed the type of vision that Luca Modric would be proud of. From memory Ainsworth ran about 30 yards from behind Vigurs to get onto the ball. Having watched the clip several times, I still don't know how he spotted the pass. Don't know if anybody has footage of the pass I am talking about? The second was against us unfortunately. He was playing for ICT and a corner was floated in to the edge of the 18 yard box. He caught it perfectly on the vollley. It was the ease and almost nonchalant way he did it that was so impressive.

You have made a very good point but this is the eternal problem for a club like ours. We simply don’t have the finances to recruit players that are a notable improvement on the players you mention. I have made this point already but three games in a row against Celtic (one being a cup final) under similar circumstances was the begining of the end for Dundee Utd. Look where they are now. Grimshaw, Rose etc are Motherwell standard players given the finances available. If one or two players push these players onto the bench this transfer window, then the closed season has been a success.

Bigirimana!!!! Best player on the park. Fantastic performance.

We are talking about one single game. There have been other times this season when Campbell or Grimshaw have made way first. I don't think anybody would argue that McHugh played well on Saturday but it is only one game. I would agree that McHugh has struggled in the second half of this season at times but he has still made a massive contribution to the cause. What interests me is that when fans look for a little bit of loyalty from players they don't see the need to reciprocate. For me McHugh has encapsulated the fighting spirit of the team this season. He puts his head and body where it hurts for the cause. He has flung himself into his duties as team captain both on and off the pitch and has played no small part in cultivated the togetherness that is apparent within the squad. I watched an interview where Tanner singled out McHugh as being of great support during his injury spell. Maybe he is just burnt out at the end of a long hard season. For me he deserves our support and that some are looking for him to be cast out after a poor cup final performance is a bit disappointing.

We were beaten by two very good goals and a Celtic team that are head and shoulders above any other team in Scotland.

A complete guess but maybe the reason for almost every single player being off the pace today is due to training being focused specifically on the cup final. If they are doing hard/ heavy sessions leading into games without the recovery time given to normal competitive games they could be feeling a bit jaded. I know nothing about these things but if there is an opportunity to optimise fitness for one specific game at the the expense of competitiveness in the games beforehand I would take a few leggy performances before the final.

People can only base an opinion on what they see. My last viewing of Ciftci was in the Hearts semi-final. He seemed to lack an edge that day and was pushed off the ball too easily by the big Hearts defenders. Bowman made a difference when he came on. I don't think that anybody would argue that Ciftci is a talented player but if he continues to lack fitness he simply can't access that ability. Somebody made reference to the 'fox in the box' earlier in the thread. A good comparison in that he was a player of undoubted talent who lacked the sharpness of his glory days but could still contribute in flashes. My hope is that Ciftci has been on a strict fitness regime and that a sharper, fitter Ciftci starts. If injury is the reason for his absence in recent weeks however Bowman should start. Moult and Bowman worked well in the League Cup semi final so why not have confidence that Main and Bowman can cause similar problems.