star sail

I have not been on the forums for some months because I got tired of the negativity of some regarding the club and the manager. I was enticed back on this morning though because I was interested to hear the thoughts on Turnbull's possible departure. No matter what happens , I think it is important to take note of the position we are in just now regarding our young players. Turnbull will leave (now or in the future) for a club record fee. He could be part of the future of the Scottish midfield for years to come. Hastie went to Rangers having been one of the most dynamic players in the league this season. He would have commanded a significiant fee had he not been out of contract and I would not be surprised if he too featured in the future as part of what will hopefully be a Scotland renaissance under Steve Clark. Campbell and Cadden are already part of the Scotland set up. Admittedly both players have reached a bit of a ceiling at the moment but they are still young with bright futures ahead. To have four players of that standard coming directly from Motherwell's youth set up is fantastic and something we should be proud of. There will be few (if any) clubs in Britain with resources similar to ours that can boast of that kind of success with it's youth system. I have no idea about Turnbull's true monitory value but what I would like to see in any deal is that he is loaned back to us for one more season. That would be worth a £1 million on it's own for me because we just might be looking at Motherwell's greatest ever export (at lesast as good as O' Donnell, McFayden, McAllister) and the pleasure of having him play at Firpark for one more season would be priceless.

I have been a member on these boards since 2009. Over time you get to know the posters. They remain anonymous but their forum names become well known to the people who read the forum regularly. I have absolutely no problem with differences of opinion. It is the differences of opinion that make these boards successful. The post above resonates with me for two reasons, one because Kmcaplin (whoever you are) is a great example for me of a familiar name on these boards, who's opinion I sometimes disagree with but always respect because the opinions are always reasonable, fair and rational. He (I am assuming he because of my narrow minded, last century view of the footballing world) never that I can recall, attacks players or managers personally and seems to have a sensible view of Motherwell's natural position in the footballing food chain. A poster above said 'Criticism is part and parcel of a football managers job'. Sadly, this is true, but sometimes that is an excuse to allow faceless people on football forums to hurl all sorts of abuse at managers, when quite possibly these same people are not reaching the elite heights of excellence and performance in their own lives. We put an expectation on football managers at times that goes beyond what is reasonable. Secondly this post resonates with me because by admitting that possible she (in the interests of balance and with the pretense of having an enlightened view of the modern world) got it wrong, Kmcalpin displays the same attributes that Stevie Robinson has shown in turning our season round. The ability to see that mistakes were made and change it is a sign of a very good manager. My feeling is that in Stevie Robinson we may actually have won a watch. Time will tell. This is a very long winded way of saying that the post above is a great post!!!

I think that this should be a real source of pride for the club. The culture in football now is to sack managers at the first hint of trouble. In Scotland, the clamber to sack managers was the domain of Old Firm fans who believed that a victory every Saturday was a God given right. Sadly it is an attitude that has filtered into all clubs at all levels of the game including our own. Fortunately in this case, Alan Burrows and the board were able to look deeper than the poor on field performances at a man who is working his socks off to improve all levels of the club from recruitment, to training, to coaching structures to youth development etc. A young, driven professional manager who, whilst still learning the ropes has acted throughout with the best interests of the club at heart. Some of the comments on these boards in recent months have made for difficult reading. Personal attacks on Robinson and Burrows, and a complete disregard for the hours of work that they put into the club. It would be nice to think that a few lessons have been learnt now that the fortunes have turned around. We should be seen as a club who supports our managers, our players and particulary our young players. The board has led the way, the fans need to do the same. I am delighted for the manager, the players and for Burrows. That the goals in recent weeks have been home grown has made it all the sweeter.

Lambert was a great player and along with Tommy Coyne is probably my favorite Motherwell player of all time. If DavidTurnbull can get close to that standard we have some player on our hands. Did Lambert not score a couple of 20 yard belters at Ibrox in his time with us? I'm sure he scored one, maybe two. My memory is not what it was.

Despite the difference of opinion, I always enjoy reading what you have to say.

I was not reacting with outrage, mock or otherwise. I absorbed your point. Craig Brown was a good manager for us. I have spent years on here defending honest professionals doing the best job they can against guys like yourself that call them chancers, car salesmen etc. They may not be the best managers in the world but they all contributed to keeping motherwell in the top division. Some of the hem including Robinson work very hard to do so. I think they deserve to have somebody defend them. Seems strange to me that Baraclough is a chancer with a 34% win record, yet Browns 34% win record at Aberdeen with more resources automatically puts him in the experienced coach who can organise a team catagory. I will reiterate again, I have nothing against Craig Brown, just the prejudice that makes one man be treated harsher than another.

Interesting to read some of the Craig Brown comments. Sometimes I think that many fans buy into a Scottish good, non Scottish bad mentality. Interesting that the three managers you mention are non- Scottish. What about Malpas (26% win), McLeish (28% win), Davies (31% win)? Does enthusiasm and positivity make you a chancer? If it does Maurice Malpas was certainly no chancer!!! Here is a couple of facts regarding the names you mention. Jim Gannon left the club in late December 2009 when we were 6th in the league. We finished that season 5th under Brown. Gannon had to perform one of the biggest rebuilding jobs in the club recent history after one of the other 'old Scottish fitba favourites' Mark McGhee left us in a shambolic state. Baraclough's win record at Motherwell was 34%. Craig Browns win record at Aberdeen was 33%. I am not trying to argue that Craig Brown was a poor manager, far from it, he was the right man at the right time for our club. It's just that the records of our foreign chancers are not as poor as some would have us believe. My point is that all the managers mentioned contributed in their own way. Gannon rebuilt a depleted squad, Baraclough saved us from relegation as did Robinson when he came in. It seems to me that there are some sections of our support that give managers a tougher critique when they are not Scottish.

Great result with a much depleted squad. Dundee and St Mirren lose and we beat our local rivals to go seven points clear. Could we look back on this day when the dust settles on the season as the day we secured our top division status for another season. Too early to know but a huge step in the right direction. COYW!

No idea what will happen today. Have been waiting for an out of the blue good performance for weeks to kick start our season. Thought the Aberdeen result might have been it but we have gone backwards since then. Tatically Robinson has been found wanting in recent weeks and he is coming up against possibly the best tactician in the league. I still believe that we have the players to get a result but they are not showing it at the moment. As others have said, I would like to see the players in their natural positions, with McHugh playing as a central defender. Play a pressing game with high energy and who knows. We have proved that we can compete with any team in the league when on form. Need to show it today. Anything less and Killie will be taking the points.

People have very short memories of Motherwell teams of the past. Anybody thinking Saturdays performance was the worst Motherwell performance ever , has not been a Motherwell fan for long. I have watched many very poor Motherwell displays under pretty much every manager we have ever had. Since McLean's time, McLeish, Kampman, Davis, Butcher, Malpas, Gannon, McGhee, Brown, McCall, Baraclough, (who have I missed), I have watched some turgid dross. Some of the players these managers have signed have been as poor as any we have now (the two Irish boys Keegan and who was the other one, McLeish bringing in Andy Roddie and my personal favourite Estaban Casagolda). The list goes on. We have had our moments under some of these managers too. McLeish's first six months, McGhee's first season, the second place under Stuart McCall being amongst the highlights. However the succcess was temporary with all these managers. McLeish managed to spoil one of the best Motherwell teams in my lifetime. McGhee's second season was painful to watch and McCall benefited from being manager at a time when the standard of the SPL was at an all time low. His teams blew up after 75 minutes because they were not fit enough. Could you imagine Robinson committing that crime? However if you really want to remember the dark days, thing back to the Malpas era. If ever there was a man that was able to suck the life out of a club, Malpas was that man. Weeyin did a very good analysis of McLean's time a few months back. His time at the club was far from rosy and it was only latterly, after he had been given the time to build it, that the Cup winning team came into being. I remember being up at Dalziel Park many years ago and I happened to catch a Billy Davis training session. It was embarrassingly poor. The players could hardly do 5 press ups between them and most of the session was spent lying on the ground pretending to stretch. Watch a Stephen Robinson training session by comparison. There is no comparison. The level of athleticism and professionalism is night and day. I find the clamber to sack managers at the best of times distasteful but at Christmas time in particular it is worth while remembering that we are talking about an honest professionals livelihood. Robinson has a very difficult job as ever Motherwell manager before him has proved. We have no God given right to beat the likes of St Mirren, Accies, Dundee etc. People wanting to take on that attitude would be better served following the Old Firm. I wish Stevie Robinson all the best and hope that things fall into place soon. Merry Christmas.

Great finish thought from the boy at the end though don't you think? The guy that was picked up from the lower leagues on a shoestring budget. The kind of shoestring budget that a team like Motherwell are working on. The manager saw the team selection coming and he got a draw out of it. Credit where it is due surely?

I mentioned this after the Rangers game. The McHugh criticism I find distasteful. He was excellent tonight.

I think it was needs must tonight. The squad is looking threadbare with injury and the options at the back are dwindling.

You going to give us your post match critique as well Yodo?

I thought Sammon played well. Did not let the Celtic central defenders settle and had a few nice lay offs. I suppose thought if people have decided that they don't like a player they have to find ways of justifying it. That is the first time I have seen Livingstone play tonight and he looked out his depth. Maybe this is why he has not been in the first team as yet? Looked like a training match for large parts of it. A huge stroke of luck for the disallowed goal, a good save for the penalty and a fantastic finish at the end the story of the game. After the injuries in the first ten minutes the players and the manager deserved a break. This will not happen often against Celtic so we have to enjoy it. Delighted with the result.

Can't agree with this. This sounds like a quote from the Gordon Strachan book of how to regress the National game by 40 years. If Messi, Modric and his band of fellow midgets had been playing yesterday would Livingston have won? It comes down to quality not height. I don't think there is a single Motherwell fan was thinking at 2.30pm yesterday that Robinson had it all wrong. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Who would be a football manager?

The pundits love a player with an exotic sounding name. It's called the Casagolda effect.

Just watched the highlights. Small margins as always. Had Shinnie taken his chance early in the game it could have been very different but he didn't and the team responded fantastically after the Rangers defeat. Very pleased for Grimshaw. Thought he was a stand out when Baraclough signed him the first time and for all he did not hit the heights last season he still made a valuable contribution. Was left scrathing my head with the waste of a jersey comments at the start of this season. Delighted that he has had the chance to show we he is capable of. Wouldn't it be a shock if Gorrin turns out to be a player as well and Robinson (once again) shows that he actually knows what he is doing. Great result. Let's hope the team can kick on now and the players and manager get given the breathing space they deserve.

Enjoyed reading your comments. Would agree with much of what you say. I have quoted this part in particular because I have found the treatment of McHugh unacceptable. This is a guy who got a concussion by putting his head where it hurts for the cause. He came back after a lengthy absence and did not change his style, still committing himself to challenges that could have resulted in further concussion (I think it maybe did once?). He is a heart on the sleeve player who gets it wrong from time to time but the margins between a great tackle and a foul can be slim. He plays on the edge and bookings can be the result. McHugh treated his captaincy responsibilities very seriously last season and was an excellent captain. He has admitted that the pressures of the role were hugely demanding, I think in part because he took the role so seriously. I heard an interview with Craig Tanner where he mentioned that McHugh always made that extra effort to continue to include him as a member of the first team squad despite his injury. This is a character that should be applauded not villified. Yesterday's red card is far from clear cut. The ONLY people I have heard argue that it was a certain red are Motherwell fans. Baffling!!!! Seems to me that there may be something more at play here. I can't put my finger on what that might be but the treatment of McHugh has been very disappointing.

Important wins against St Mirren and Dundee and the match thread page count increases by 1-2 over the next 48 hrs. Lose today and it jumps 5 pages in a couple of hours. There are some people who love slaughtering this team. The last ten days must have been touch but at least you get to have your fun this evening.

Absolutely. This shows just how difficult it is to go to Ibrox under any circumstances. It also puts the 3-1 play off win in context. That was an incredible result, that to this day, I find hard to believe. Having said that, a win has to come some time and there is reason for optimism. Anybody who watched the Moscow game will know that the Rangers defence looked very suspect when put under pressure. Our three goals at Firpark proves that they are vulnerable when put under pressure. Robinson's biggest achievement in his time at Firpark for me is how he has been able to change the mindset of the whole club going into Old Firm games. It does not guarantee a result but at least it means that the team is not beat before it even leaves the dressing room. I think that Gerrard's early success has been helped considerably by his reputation in the game. The Ranger's players clearly got a lift when he arrived but the honeymoon period is over. He will be feeling the heat now and will understand fully the weight of responsibility of being the Rangers manager. A motivated Motherwell team, prepared to go at them could cause a lot of problems. A Rangers win is certainly the most likely but I am confident that we can get something from the game. Prediction: 2-2.

Congratulations to the players and manager under the pressure of a must not lose game. Let's hope this kick starts our season. St Johnstone have gone on a run since beating us. Let's hope we can do the same.

I don't often agree with Ya Bezzer either but I always like reading what he has to say and to be fair to him he has been flagging up the poor league performance for some time now. I was actually coming on tonight to make the point you have made about Cooper, Russell etc (you could add Tommy Coyne to that list). I think the days of attracting big names in the twilight of their careers is all but over. I fall into to the happy clapper camp when it comes to retaining football managers. I think the term happy clapper is misused however in the sense that the happy clappers I believe are actually the realists who know how difficult the job of a football manger is and don't go pretending that there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow with the next new man that roles into town. A turn around time of about 2 years at Motherwell for a manager over the last decade shows how tough the gig is. For me the manager has to be given the support of the board and the fans. He has brought a professionalism to the club that has at times been missing in recent years. Those in the know say that he has taken the quality of the training sessions to a new level and it is clear that the players are fit and motivated even if things are not clicking at the moment. I think we must be careful not to confuse a lack of confidence with a lack of effort. Robinson's biggest crime has been the inability to replace Kipre and Moult but let's face it that was always going to be a very tough task. You can see the thinking behind bringing Johnson to the club. It has not worked out (yet) but that is the risk that every football manager takes. I enjoyed reading Weeyin's comments about McLean's time because it highlighted very well the lean times under McLean. Sadly I think the days of giving managers the time McLean had are long gone but it would be nice to think that Motherwell could still retain some of the spirit of the Chapman days. For every good spell with a manager I could highlight poor spells that people tend to forget about. McGhee's first six months at Motherwell brought some of the best football I have ever seen at Firpark. His second season (not his second spell) was poor and there was many a game of hoof ball and head tennis in that season. I think Robinson can ride this out and I would like to see him be given the chance.

Nice to hear Baraclough been mentioned in the interview. A manager that did not get the time and support he deserved at Motherwell. Interesting how it is the same people that called for Baracloughs head that are calling for Robinson’s head. I don’t think you can have that kind of success at any level of international football if you are a diddy. As for today, I think we will win the game narrowly and that a bit of confidence building will see our season turn for the better. 1-0 Well.

I don't often agree with your point of view Steelboy and from memory have been disagreeing with your views on managers ever since the Jim Gannon days. I tend to want to keep them and you tend to want to sack them. I always find yours opinions interesting however so couple of genuine questions. Do you think this squad of players could be turned into a decent team with the right man in charge and if so who would that man be for you?