star sail

I agree with what you say but I think a dose of confidence will do wonders for a number of the players including the ones you mention. Let's hope the new men can inject some positivity and confidence into the full squad.

SOD has been one of the most divisive players at the club for some time.. He seemed to rub a small section of our support up the wrong way from the beginning and has not really recovered. Even this comment gets a couple of laughs and a confused emoji. The fact is that before his injury problems he was playing for Scotland in the Euros. The strange thing is, that even then some Well fans just would not back him. What should have been a source of pride for the club became a source of contention amongst the fans. It is a really strange one. He has struggled to find form and consistency in recent times there is no doubt but the statement above seems very reasonable. It will be very interesting to see if Wimmer sticks with him and SOD can recapture some form. Surely that is something all Well fans would welcome?

Welcome Michael Wimmer. I don't think the playing squad is a major concern. There are some decent players in the squad who are clearly lacking in confidence. If the new manager can inject some confidence into the team, identify the best playing position for each player and provide more balance in terms of formation then I this team could just as easily finish 3rd as 11th. Aberdeen's season proves how confidence is king, particularly in a league as tight as ours. Much could depend on how he manages the senior players. I am reminded of Jim Gannon alienating Craigan, Lasley and Hammell. If O Donnell, Watt, Halliday need some tough love then it will require some subtle management skills. I think we will be back to wimming ways soon (sorry Weeyin!).

He successfully managed Maritimo (sp), a Madeiran island team playing in the Portuguese league. Madeira is my favourite holiday destination so this links Grizzly's holiday chat with the manager thread. It is a dead cert!!!

Van Der Gaag? That's my rather hopeful guess.

I think I made the I heard it comment. There was a boy standing right beside me at Perth who shouted ' get tae f**K Kettlewell, you useless c**t' He looked as if he was about to explode with anger. I may have been very unlucky that I was standing beside the only Motherwell fan in the entire stadium making these comments but given that Kettlewell has subsequently resigned I don't think that was a single comment in isolation. I think football is possibly the only environment left where a comment like that is considered reasonable and where fellow supporters will try and defend it.

I think it was a double hit wellgirl. It was actually quite well done. Off the inside of both posts and in. Don't let it get to you. You and I (and a few others) have taken a view over the last few days that has proved to be fairly unpopular. It does not necessary make it wrong but the flack does come with it. It's all part of the discussion.

The lack of empathy and social conscience is staggering. I just listened to the Caldwell interview. This is not some made up shit. He looked genuinely saddened by the whole sorry affair. Not spin, not propaganda. One of his hard working work colleagues has had to resign because the fans that are there to support turned on him. We are talking about a guy who was coming into his work at 6.30am every morning and leaving at 7pm every night quiting because the pressures of the job has taken it's toll. His crime was to have hit a rocky spell in both results and performance. Like every football manager he has paid a heavy price. This is not a man who has landed on his feet. He has lost his job. He has not played some kind of tactical blinder as I have read more than once on this forum over the last few days. He will almost certainly be going through a difficult time just now both mentally and emotionally. He would have to be to walk away from his job in the way he has. The abuse from the fans is real. Not some made up conspiracy against the poor Motherwell fans because they are not fashionable. Just because Celtic and Rangers might be worse, does not make the behaviour of the Motherwell fans acceptable. I was at Perth. I heard it and saw the behaviours for myself. Not a tiny minority but a significant minority if not possibly even a majority. Let's not pretend this is a Kettlewell phenomenon. Baraclough, Robinson, Alexander suffered the very same fate. The icing on the cake for me has been reading on this forum some of the more reasonably minded going to great lengths to justify the fans behaviour and taking the petted lip because the victim of the abuse and the media have dared to even question these behaviours. I have been drifting as a Well fan for a while. I just don't have the sense of pride and identity with the club that I used to have. Age and a changing world view plays a major factor in that l admit. I may well be the one out of step now with the general footballing fraternity but I am happy to be so. I just cannot relate anymore to the attitudes I have seen expressed in recent days. What this incident has proved to me is football fans are generally the same regardless of the club they support. Same attitudes, same mindset just a different coloured flag.

I remember listening to Leeann Dempster talking about that retrospectively and I am sure she said that she regretted the way the club handled the situation. She seemed to imply that Hibs had jumped the gun a little by suspending him. I think she also said that she still had a good relationship with him and held him in high regard.

I agree with you about his second spell at Celtic. It was generally a bit of a disaster. He had a very good first spell however and for a time had Celtic competing with the likes of AC Milan in the Champions League. I think he would have the tactical awareness that SK lacked. Like Dennyc just mentioned, I know a few Hibs fans who talk positively about his time with them. I think a motivated NL could be a big success. If he was to go through the motions however and potentially be wrestling a few of the demons he has clearly struggled with in the past, it could be a disaster. Of the two my preference would be Scott Brown. I think he would be highly motivated to make a success of the job.

I think Scott Brown would be a very interesting choice. I would also be happy with Neil Lennon. They both have a winning mentality and have both played the game at the highest level. NL has Champions League management experience. I am sure our fans would accept him if the football became more enjoyable again. Lennon could actually be like a Craig Brown appointment. A wealth of experience and a strong reputation in the game. I did not ever get the sense that McCall was not accepted at Motherwell. In fact, I would think most Well fans will remember him with a great deal of goodwill.

Nnnnooooooo!! I think it would be difficult to live through all of this again. Anyway we will be busy putting the pressure on our own new man.

No need to apologise and regarding your last comment, I have been really surprised by how much this story has got to me over the last 24 hours when generally these days I am very philosophical about the football. Bewildered sums it up nicely.

We are no better and no worse as a fan group. I don't think that justifies the behaviours. What has brought this debate about is that a manager has called us on it. It opens up a very interesting debate. What interests me most is that I am clearly in a significant minority that believes SK has good cause for complaint. Every football manager in the country probably has good cause for complaint. Regarding the double standards, I am very clumsily referencing the comment about SOD because he is obviously considered fair game, whilst by comparison the Motherwell support collectively sees itself as beyond reproach or criticism. The context is different but I believe the sentiment to be the same Judging by the mood, I have been losing the argument generally on the forum over these last few days. That of itself is very instructive and makes the discussion really interesting and worthwhile for me. It is always interesting to discover that your views are not representative of a collective you previously believed to align with on some level . Hopefully the double standards comment is slightly clearer (clear as mud possibly). It is all good discussion for as long as it does not become personal.

A race to the bottom. I am sure that SOD would love it if every fan was as polite as you. He will have heard far, far worse.

Resume. I like that! Ok. If that's your opinion of what is acceptable and you would be happy with members of your own family been subjected to similar statements that is fine. What I don't understand is that you are offended when the media, SK, SOD, the Motherwell board questioning those very same types of comment. That does not make any sense to me? None of these people have made anything like the comments referenced above. It smacks of double standards.

I have been watching Motherwell since 1980. I have been on this forum since about 2008. I know what goes on. What I am saying is that for me personally, the levels of abuse, I find generally unacceptable. What really interests me most is that the Motherwell support seems to be collectively offended that it's behaviours are being questioned. No abuse from any quarter, just questioned. I assume you think it is fine?

In the context of what we're are currently talking about, is this comment acceptable ? Maybe this is supposed to be tongue in cheek but if it is not I don't think it is acceptable. For those who think it is acceptable, ask yourself the question ' If somebody was saying this about a member of my family on a public forum, how would I feel about it?' SOD himself has taken unacceptable levels of abuse from our support in recent times. We can't simply pretend that all the negativity is just a media led conspiracy.

This is spot on in regard to both playing style and the increasingly toxic nature of football and society in general. I have just read through the last 24 hours of posts and the lack of self awareness is fairly staggering. It is interesting how we are very comfortable putting an individuals performance and character under almost intolerable levels of scrutiny for an extended period of time and yet as soon as the spotlight falls on our own behaviours we cry that it is not fair and that we are being victimised.

The media is reporting it as fans abuse because Kettlewell has cited that as his reason for leaving and this has been confirmed by Brian Caldwell. The media are simply reporting on what has actually happened. As your post suggests, the behaviour of football fans of all clubs can be poor and Motherwell are no exception. A true race to the bottom. We have been called on it by the man who has taken the verbal beating this time round. We cannot pretend that this abuse does not exist towards Kettlewell.As a poster above mentioned, you just have to listen to YouTube footage to hear the vitriol. Listen to the footage from Perth and it can be heard clearly. It's fairly disgusting. Let's, at the very least, not play the victim.

Just read the BBC article. I don't think Brian Caldwell could have been any stronger in his support for Kettlewell.

I feel your frustration. I think it is a sad day for the club. I think there are some in our fanbase who have lost sight of what success means to a club like Motherwell. Maybe we need to be relegated to give sections of our support an appreciation of the contribution SK and the managers before him have made to ensuring our top league status. We can argue about the merits or likewise of Kettlewell as a manager but we certainly cannot say as a collective that we have given him our support in difficult times. I suppose that makes us no better and no worse than every other support out there. Just yet another dissatisfied, angry mob amongst many. There certainly can't be many self congratulatory pats on the back from the Motherwell support this evening. I wish SK all the very best in his next job in football.

Celtic, Aberdeen and Motherwell are the only three teams to have maintained top division status over the last 40 years. That is a significant achievement.

I think you are being hard on yourself here and giving Wellfan and those who share his views too much credit. On not sacking Kettlewell after the winless run,you were right, he was wrong. History has now proven this to be true. The proof being that the fortunes turned around last season and we did not get relegated. Like it or not that is a significant marker of success for a team like Motherwell. We have not had a manager leave Motherwell on his own terms since Craig Brown in 2010. In the 15 years since, every manager has eventually been sacked and on average lasts about 2 years. It is easy to back the sack the manager horse. It is the form horse by some considerate distance and these stats will be mirrored in teams up and down the SPL. Kettlewell is approaching two years in charge now. Probability alone tells us his time is nearly up. Being a football manager in this division is very difficult and they have a very short sell buy date. It does not take a visionary to predict that a manager will be sacked. Hang in there with that message and 9 times out of 10 you will be proven correct often sooner rather than later.

You are doing a very good job of supporting Kettlewell and by association the team. It is difficult swimming against the tide. I really hope you prove to be right. I just get a sense now that we may be heading down an all too familiar road and that Kettlewell's time may be running out. It feels like deja vu from the last days of Baraclough, Robinson, Alexander and Hammell in recent weeks. There does come a point where maybe we have to start considering the possibility that not all managers are rubbish and that the challenges run a little deeper. Keep fighting the good fight.