star sail

Where to begin. Start with the positives: great to see a big travelling support and commendable that they generally stuck with the team until the final whistle when they ( rightly) showed their displeasure at the performance. Sam Nicholson and Callum Slattery looked like football players and hopefully they will have more to offer as their fitness improves. The big negative for me is the way we start games. It is so passive. Today was a Scottish Cup game with a big away support and the team were once again really flat. This needs addressing because it sets the tone of the game and it is happening too often. Regarding Kettlewell past, present and future. He has proved to be the right man for us to this point. Keeping us in the division twice, a League Cup Semi Final and a top 6 berth in the league are proof of this even if there has been disagreement on the style of football on the way through. 9 injuries today are significant. A squad with limited resource cannot absorb that kind of set back without it affecting performance. It does not make the performance today acceptable but neither can it be ignored. The big misconception about the future is that there is a magic bullet somewhere out there that is going to fix things. There is not a single football team out with Celtic that plays good football in Scotland. Teams may show flashes of decent play but generally the league serves up mediocre semi professional tripe every week that passes as entertainment because of the emotional connection we have with our team. St Johnstone were rotten today, just slightly less rotten than us. Let's not kid ourselves that Valakari has them playing free flowing football. Teams up and down the country packed with journeyman pros will be serving up similar eye bleeding fare and passing it off as entertainment. Some supporters will accept it because they win this week, others will moan about how terrible their team is until all is forgotten when they win next time out. I have watched Motherwell in Cup games for 45 years and what I witnessed today, I have witnessed before, often against lower league opposition. Morton, Ayr United,Albion Rovers,Raith Rovers, Mypa, Stjarnaan to name but a very few. Different manager's, same outcome. If I am stupid enough to keep paying my money in the future ( as I will be)I will see it again no matter who the manager is in the coming years. There is nothing ( other than the vagueries of very short memories) to make a valid case for sacking SK as a result of today result or results so far this season. I am still gutted tonight right enough.

I find the perspective of some of the comments on here regarding the disallowed goal and SK reaction to the decision a little strange. We are allowed as fans to be biased in favour of our own team. It is part of the game to look at the world through Claret and Amber specs. Rangers have made an art form over decades of putting pressure on match officials so that 50/50 decisions get viewed 55/45 in their favour. They have piled on the pressure since the league cup final and it has gained traction in the press. This is designed to make it more difficult for match officials to decide against them in future games (particularly the next OF game). They do this because it works. No conspiracy, no agenda on the side of the referees, it is just human nature to balance a decision on it's potential repercussions. The question I would ask is had the roles been reversed would Oxborough have benefited from the same decision in the same circumstances when the score was 2-0 or 2-1. I don't think he would because it would have been a tougher decision for the VAR officials to make. That is just the laws of human nature and it is a law that the OF are very good at working to their advantage. I welcome SK showing the passion, the frustration and standing up for his team and his club. I find it odd that some don't seem to share his passion given the Motherwell bias that is our right as subjective, irrational football fans. In a different circumstance, the goal could have been given. You can guarantee that had Rangers been disallowed a similar goal they would make plenty of it and another strongly worded statement could have been making it's way to anybody who would listen.

Some thoughts on last night. First of all, that playing surface seems to look better every time we see it. It is now a thing of real beauty and really adds to the sense of occasion on a night like last night. I was reminded of how Firpark can be one of the best grounds for atmosphere in the whole of Scotland. It brought back a sense of nostalgia for big nights in the past at Firpark. I think what is particularly noteworthy is the amount of late goals we are scoring. Successful teams do this and it is a habit that is very nice to see. Congratulations to everybody involved at the club. You can see what it meant to the players and the coaching staff in the video posted above. I think the momentum has been building to a night like last night for some time. Happy days.

The Daily Record represents everything that is horrible about football in the West of Scotland. I cannot remember the last time that I looked at a story in that rag. It will be at least 20+ years ago. No interest in promoting Scottish football in general and every interest in the promotion of one particular club at the expense of all else. Out of sight , out of mind is the best policy with that type of journalism.

Once again, it shows just how difficult it is to be a football manager of one of the smaller teams in the league. Some very experienced managers have tried and failed with teams in recent years, Tommy Wright, Owen Coyle, Malky Mackay, Craig Levein to name a few. Proof to me yet again that SK is doing very well to keep Motherwell's head above the water.He must be one of the longest servicing managers in the league. The life span of managers at clubs is bonkers.

I agree with what you say about the Scottish psyche when it comes to winning football matches. It is no coincidence that we lost to Poland and Portugal with late goals. Hungary in the Euros was another example. There is a weakness in the mindset in Scotland that seems to make us terrified of success. The national rugby team displays the exact same flaws. It is not specifically a Motherwell problem as you say yourself but as Motherwell fans we can we guilty of thinking with that Scottish defeatist mindset. I'm not sure though that is proof that SK should have been sacked after 15 winless games. The positive end to last season and the good start to this season is a bigger factor in suggesting that it was right to give him time during that difficult spell. I would imagine that quite a few Aberdeen fans will see Motherwell as their bogey team. We have a habit of inflicting some painful defeats on them so why not continue that trend by ending their winning start to the season. 1-2 Motherwell.

I agree with what you say about his technical ability and creativity but he would be one of those high risk signings that Kettlewell has been slated for in recent times. I must admit though I would still find it an exciting proposition if KVV did come back just to see if he could reproduce the magic one last time. I think the odds would be against him regaining that form though.

Excellent result. I really hope the team can push on from this and have a sustained run of good form. It feels like this performance has been some time in the making. Well done SK and the players. Maybe the patience shown by SK for Halliday is also starting to pay off.

Signing risky players is a product of the limited market SK has to shop in. Young players that show potential but have not performed yet are a risk. Bair was a risk that worked. Good quality experienced players that but for a few injuries would be completely priced out of our market are a risk. Louis Moult was a risk that did not work out for Stevie Hammell. He then did work out for Dundee Utd. Veteran players that have reached the end of their careers that we could never have dreamt of signing when in their prime are a risk. Callum Patterson may be an example of that. Andy Halliday is a risk that I still think could go either way. Remember we missed out on Robert Snodgrass a season or two back. A perfect example of a player we could not have afforded but for the fact that he was in the twilight of his career. He did not exactly set the heather on fire on his return to Scotland so even he would have been a risk that may not have worked. Look at Van Veen going to Kilmarnock. It was a risk that did not work and I would imagine it was a fairly expensive one for Kilmarnock. Let's say that Ryan Jack is training with us and SK can see in training that he is significantly better than the midfield players we have. He is gaining fitness and stays injury free The option is there to offer him 6 months/ 1 year. Would SK really be off his head to consider this? I think the problem sometimes with the arguments you put forward wellfan is that you fail to recognise the significant restraints that Motherwell and SK work under. SK has to gamble sometimes. It is the nature of being financially one of the smaller clubs in the top league.

How do you fluke a top 6 finish?

Stephen Robinson got us to two cup finals in a season losing to Celtic both times. He also had us in 3rd place when the league was terminated due to coronavirus. You only have to look back at the threads at that time to see that a minority of the support were moaning about him then. I think the word imposter was a favourite back then too. We will never, ever get a manager that will satisfy that minority of our support. I am sure that every team has them.

Now that's a Propper own goal!! Let's hope it unsettles them.

Agreed. I think that is something that is always overlooked. It takes weeks to build fitness back to a competitive level after an injury. In Hallidays case, the notion that he will be fully fit and match sharp after a month of pre-season at his age is very optimistic. He has to get minutes on the pitch and we may not see him coming into his own until September/October. I fear for Slattery's return as well. He will be given about 5 mins to get match fit before the knives are out.

I don't think there is anything we have seen so far this season to change the perceptions of individual fans from the end of last season. Those who wanted Kettlewell sacked last season are already building the rhetoric to hold that same position this season. Those (like me) who thinks we are playing a waiting game and that it could still go either way for Kettlewell and the team are still playing a waiting game. It is too early to really say. Halliday will need time if he is to come good this season. He also needs time on the pitch. The new players need time to settle. The positives are that we are unbeaten in our competitive games ths season. (in 90 mins) and we looked better than RC. Interestingly the BBC Text commentary noted some surprise that there was boos coming from sections of the Well support at full time. I think the hangover from last season may be skewing our judgement of what the early season looks like.

This is a very good summary of the season. I think there has actually been a consistency to the season that is overshadowed a little by the winless run in the winter. Without dazzling or ever really being comprehensibly thumped it has generally been a mediocre season. This seems strange to say when we have been really competitive against the OF and we got th long awaited league victory against Rangers Looking at Kettlewell's record as a whole over one and a half seasons, I think there is reason to believe we have the makings of a decent manager who will improve with time. He reminds me a little of Derek McInnes, never sensational, never completely at sea just steady making incremental improvements. If that incremental improvement continues Wellfan could get his wish of a top 6 finish and I think it is reasonable for him ( and all of us) to set that as the next target . Overall I think the club has reached an equilibrium just now that will serve as a good basis to push on to greater things. I am excited for next season but then I am a self aware happy clapper. Looking forward to my hands being red raw next season.

Goal difference of +1 is non too shabby. We have lost alot of games by a single goal this season.

Kettlewell to Hearts exclusive?

Is that a deliberate typo for our Andy.

Whatever happened to Steve Diggle? Always enjoyed his contribution to Steelmen Online. I think the contrary views is what makes the forum successful. Enjoy your contributions too MJC even if I don't always agree. It livens things up nicely. Well done to Kettlewell and the team for getting us over the line. Motherwell maintain their top flight status yet again. Remember one of only three teams in Scotland to maintain that very proud record. All involved did really well to turn the pre Christmas form around. Would have liked a Cup run and top 6 but survival is the marker for success every year. Can't wait for the new Kettlewell out thread in late August!!! Meantime we can relax a bit.

I am not 100% sure exactly what side of the fence the original pie and Bovril poster is landing on but certainly the notion that it is not possible to realise emotions of anger and frustration out with 90 mins of a football match suggests a laziness of thought and a lack of willingness to take responsibility for our own lives. There are other ways to tackle these emotions that do not involve abusing other human beings at a football match. I don't doubt that many of us live our lives under significant stress. The figures for male suicide in particular is staggering and ofcourse football is a fantastic way to escape from the stresses and strains of our daily life. However football cannot be used as an excuse for intimidating and aggressive behaviour. I have watched Motherwell fans over the years hiding behind the claret and amber flag to excuse behaviours that would not be accepted in any other walk of life. What about the players suffering with mental illness? What about the steward that has dragged him/ herself to work after a family bereavement? What about the policeman/ policewoman gripped by anxiety? What about the football manager who's life is falling apart because he/ she is spending all their time trying to keep a job that is always only potentially a few weeks from ending? Do these people stop being human beings from 3pm till 445pm on a Saturday so that the rest of us can vent our frustration? Are we really that selfish?

Hibs supporter and Aberdeen supporters have every right to be pouring over the post mortem this evening. Two relatively massive clubs in our league who have underperformed yet again. The stand out team for me has been St Mirren. Top six for the second year in a row. They have shown the difference a good manager makes. Robinson did it with us and now St Mirren. Mind-blowing to think that there was Motherwell fans that argued from the time Robinson arrived with us that he was not up to the standard of our league. As for us, Kettlewell has met his target once again. To keep us in the division. The victory at Ibrox apart it has been a very mediocre season but there is still the possibility of finishing best of the rest for the second year in a row which from an objective perspective is about exactly where we do weigh in. I would be lying if I said that I was not slightly underwhelmed by this season but I always remind myself that we remain one of only three teams to stay in the top division spanning over the last five decades. It is an extraordinary achievement and looks like continuing for at least one season more.

Regarding the VAR decisions and refereeing standards in general, I am happy to accept that mistakes are made. VAR has significant human input and players, managers and referees are making mistakes all the time on the field of play. Any reasonable person has to accept honest mistakes. Where I struggle is with the lack of transparency. If there was an explanation after the game by the referee as to the thought process behind why the Bair hand ball is a hand ball and the Shinnie one not, then it would educate everyone as to the interpretation of the rules from a referees perspective and give managers, players and fans the reassurance that the decision was reached in a rational, fair minded way. The fact that there is no transparency is what sows doubt in the mind. The silence suggests that the referees are not so confident in their processes at best and are simply making it up as they go along at worst. These decisions can be the difference between Premier League survival or not. It is too important to let the whims of Collum or any other referee determine what happens. Transparency allows the referees to show that their decisions were reached in a fair minded and honest way even if we don't always agree with it. I don't understand why governing bodies shy away from the opportunity to prove the legitimacy of their processes.

Is there any chance at all that Stuart Kettlewell could be on Aberdeen's shortlist? If they are talking about contracted managers in Scotland, there is not a huge pool to draw upon.

I actually can't believe it!!!! The ref can't give a penalty when the players are in the changing rooms can he? 27 years wait but it feels so good. Celebrations tonight! Enjoy Well fans .

You have certainly made your preferences clear in that regard, time and time again. I am still licking the wounds from last weekend and although we have to beat Rangers at some point in what time remains of human life on this planet, I just can't see it being this weekend. There is always that wee voice in my head all the same that says 'you just never know ' A draw would be a great result this weekend.