Kmcalpin

Id Jordan McGhee not due some game time?

No, thats right. Its just south of the Lofoten Islands. If I recall rightly its only second in size to Tromso in northern Norway.

Thats a powerful argument, very powerful. However, a precedent was set when clubs, including ours, were held accountable for their fans use of pyros, albeit at behest of Scottish ministers. Surely that same approach will be used here. Also, in the interests of consistency, Scottish ministers have to apply pressure.

If they haven't condemned the shocking goings on, then it makes strict liability all the easier to apply. Suggestions also of sectarianism but I don't suppose anybody is too keen to investigate that.

Apparently moved at his own request. A pattern forming here?

A disgraceful incident yesterday and an embarassment to Scotland. Lots of questions need to be asked of both clubs, the SFA, SPFL, Police and Scottish Government. Sevco must look at the behaviour of their fans and their security arrangements. Celtic also need to look at the behaviour of their fans. Did they sell tickets to the Green Brigade? The SFA and SPFL need to look at strict liability, now that they set a precedent with pyros. The Scottish Government needs to grow a set after they intervened over pyros and must face up to embarassing, uncomfortable and controversial issues. Lots of questions and, I fear, no answers will be forthcoming.

I don't know. I didn't think we were ever in with much of chance of winning the title and had completely dismissed that possibility and ignored all chat about it. As for the top three, the odds are very, very heavily stacked against us and again I'm focused on finishing 4th. As Wellfan rightly says though thats ours to lose, and if we finish up up in 5th place then thats what we'll have deserved, no less and no more. An achievement in its own right.

I don't think that helped Grizzly but I think on the night, Aberdeen would have beaten any 11 we could have fielded. Their luck was in and you simply cannot beat that, no matter how good you might be. Weeyin has just taken the words off my keyboard. You need a lot of good luck to win a cup and St Mirren have that precious quality in spadefuls. It'll take a good but, more importantly, an even luckier team to stop them winning a second cup.

As far as I can tell, Celtic fans invaded the pitch first. Anyways, both sets of fans behaved shockingly. The main issue that will worry the Scottish Government and SFA is were pyros used? If not, its unlikely that strict liability will be enforced.

Probably not. Anything we do take from the game will be a bonus. The usual free hit.

Its going to be a real struggle to hold onto 4th place. All our remaining games are against fellow top 6 sides and here's our record against them this season. Hearts: 2 draws. Celtic: 1 win 1 loss Rangers: 2 draws 1 loss Hibs: 1 win 1 draw Falkirk: 1 draw 1 loss In total, thats 2 wins, 6 draws and 3 defeats. We're unbeaten against Hearts and Hibs but haven't beaten Falkirk, Rangers or Hearts. Having said that, I'm delighted that we've managed to finish in the top 6. Anything above that is the icing on the cake. If we manage to finish 4th I'll be over the moon and if its 5th I'll be delighted. To put things in perspective, at the start of the season, I was hoping to finish 7th this term as that would represent progress. We've achieved that and more. Our away from has been fair no better this season and I felt that going into yesterday's game many were overconfident.

100% and thats also true of finishing in the top 3. Its just unrealistic and not going to happen.

No-one knows for sure, but I'm assuming JBA will be offski and has probably already been sounded out by clubs higher up the food chain than us. However I trust the directors have a very good idea of the kind of manager that now suits us and will source another in the same vein. We are a selling club and it may well be that some or all of Just, Manwhanise, Said and Watt move on for healthy fees. Welsh will also be moving on. Those fees will greatly help the club financially long term. As we sourced Manwhanise, Just, Watt etc we can source equally good replacements, but the difference this time will be that we'll know were our weaknesses lie. We're a good footballing side but management will know that we lack bottle, hardness and ruthlessness and that will be addressed.

Good post Grizzly. We have a helluva fight on our hands to hold onto 4th place. Lets get behind the team. By next weekend Hibs will likely be just 4 pts below us. Then 2 huge games against them and Falkirk. The 2 easiest games of our run in. We've come a long way in 1 year. But we're very much work in progress as Dundee pointed out today. If that result can bring a few of us back to reality then its been a good day.

Probably, the Falkirk and Hibs games will be a better test. Celtic are a better team than us, and if we take anything from next week's game it will be a surprise, although not impossible.

I agree with most of that Jim but in the cold light of day this team is excellent but simply not good enough to win silverware. Or, should I say, lacks the necessary qualities. Margins are thin, but but good football alone wins nothing. Lets just enjoy the football and irrespective of whether we end up 4th or 5th it will have been a great season and gives us hope that we can improve for next season.

I never thought we'd finish in the top 3 and today's result hasn't changed my mind. There's still a lot to play for as 4th place is by no means guaranteed. I felt that, going into today's game, we needed to keep our feet on the ground. That result today will help and temper the expectations of many. If there was any doubt about our lack of bottle and ruthlessness then Dundee have removed that. It will prove to be a valuable lesson going forward. We're having a fantastic season, but still have shortcomings that need rectified

Don't know about that. Our record against them isn't great.

Chill out folks. This was never going to be an easy game.

Yes, planning complications and delays shouldn't be underestimated. You can envisage, for example, if we want to remain at Fir Park and redevelop it, that a core aim would be to increase the usage of the facilities during non match days. So it should be. That would then result in increased traffic and parking issues, probably annoying the neighbours. Any refurbished stadium would have to be very similar to the current one in terms of height, footprint etc. Thats the starting point. Very limiting, as you say. As this forum has discussed many times, the key will be to secure significant funding for any major project. A very tall order. That will test the new board of directors and require a lot of creative thinking. I wonder how much of the feasibility study will be shared with us? Presumably all commercially sensitive information will be held back and rightly so. It would be interesting though to be given a detailed summary; thats all we need.

Excellent, well thought out post Goggles and I know there is a lot more serious thinking behind it. In short I agree with it. I can think of many points on which to elaborate but will concentrate on only 3. Much has been made of the unique character of Fir Park i.e. the 4 completely different stands. You touch on the need / benefit of having a larger stand to accommodate away fans. This is spot on. Whilst Falkirk and St Mirren have enjoyed healthy crowds, their very limited provision for away fans is costing them. This is especially true of Falkirk's stadium, but I know there are ownership issues there So, as you point out its not just a question of overall capacity, but also of how that capacity is allocated in terms of a home/away split. The second issue is that of filling in the corners if we remain at Fir Park. As you rightly point out the footprint is very constrained. That would be easiest at the north east and south east corners. It would also be possible at the north west corner but would mean relocating the offices somewhere else. The south west corner, which constitutes by far the biggest gap is really problematic given the presence of residential properties adjacent to the boundary. I genuinely don't know how that could be satisfactorily addressed. Now, although the 3 corners could be filled, in theory, there would be practical difficulties in terms of the difference in heights. This is most obvious in the south eastern corner, where the difference in height between the Hunter and MacLean Stands is extreme. Finally, I agree 100% that any new facility has to be used 7 days a week to bring in additional off the field income. Current faciliies in the POD greatly limit the income that can be generated during week days. If this were to be in Ravenscraig, then that could be tied to wider community benefits. As for the latter, its important to envisage what it will be like in the future not what it is there now.

Thats a fair point. The existing structures have set a planning precedent in terms of land use and physical characeteristics such as height, parking etc. They've been there for years and thats half the battle. However be sure that the neighbours will scrutinise every comma and dot, and rightly so. The fact that the stadium has been there before many of the residents moved in won't stop opposition though.

Although not really a former player, Olly Whyte scores the winner for Stenhousemuir against Accies last night.

Well, well, who would have thought it? A Dundee Utd player rolling about on the ground tonight after a no contact incident. Some people should practice what they preach. Are you listening Jim?

There are many aspects to the stay V go debate Jonesy, but for the moment I'll focus on the community argument. What community are you referring to? If we assume that Ravenscraig is the preferred location, a site would be approximately 1Km from Fir Park, as the crow flies. Thats about the same distance from Fir Park to Asda, and considerably less than the distance to Forgewood. So, it wouldn't be a huge move distance wise. Motherwell is a strange settlement geographically as its part of a wider conurbation including Wishaw, Newmains, Craigneuk, Netherton, Cambusnethan, Newarthill and now Ravenscraig. Indeed it used to be part of the Burgh of Motherwell and Wishaw. The only similar places I can think of are Stoke on Trent and Levenmouth. Remove the placename signs and visitors would have difficulty in knowing exactly where they were. In short, how do we define a settlement? Over the years, Motherwell and satellite settlements have changed dramatically and evolved and must continue to do so or they will die. It needs to be conserved not preserved. My own family originally lived in Logan’s Rows then moved a short distance to Forgewood Road. Post WW1 they moved to Netherton and split to various places like Knowetop, Pather, and outside Lanarkshire. They began supporting MFC when we located at the Roman Road ground and continued when we moved to Fir Park. In microcosm that’s how a community evolves. Like it or not, Ravenscraig is just a modern version of Netherton, Pather, Gowkthrapple Coltness etc, which all developed post WW1. A lot of big Ifs in this discussion, but if we ever do move to the likes Ravenscraig, it wouldn’t be ripping the community apart.