David

At this stage the only facts we have are that he's got a contract with a MLS side, and that he's spoken on social media about looking forward to going out there to play his football. Maybe he's just lying, but at the moment I'll assume he's going out there.

No, what I'm saying is that it all depends on personal circumstance and the situation. If the player is in a position where what he wants to do can benefit the club, then great. I doubt Cadden is actively looking to fuck us over, but he's been handed the opportunity to play some football in England and then head over to the US where he probably hopes he can make a bit of a career for himself. Should he compromise that opportunity because the process the clubs involved are taking means Motherwell get less money? Absolutely not. As I mentioned, we had ample opportunity to move Cadden on to another club for a fee a while back, and we chose not to. And I'm not saying that loyalty is fine when you're a better player, I'm saying that someone like Turnbull or Tierney will have more choice. Was there a queue of clubs wanting to sign Cadden when his contract expired? I certainly didn't hear of many. His circumstances are obviously different. The home development club relationship obviously should mean something, but it comes a firm second to what benefits the player himself, and his family. That's only natural. It looks to me like Cadden was in a position where he could either take the route he's taken now, or he could refuse it and hope that something else comes along.

I wasn't aware that this forum held such sway with the manager's team selection.

Yeah, I'd be very surprised if we see the window close with us having the strikers we have at the moment.

So, when is this away shirt coming out? I've postponed my holidays so I can wear it in Portugal.

And that's absolutely fine, but at this stage it's perfectly reasonable for fans to look at what he's done previously and either show concern or excitement. The key point is that despite what all of us may say just now there shouldn't be anyone here who doesn't want the guy to do well. If the standard answer of "judge him in the months to come, don't doubt the managers eye for a player" were cast in stone this place would be boring as hell. I may not agree with some of the views on here, but so long as they're actually based on something and not just negativity for the sake of it then they have their place. Argument, debate and discussion is what somewhere like this is all about. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but those people are probably better off just reading the official website for news and not getting involved in platforms such as this, as we're going to see dissenting opinions.

The obvious difference there is that Turnbull is well aware that he's destined for bigger things and will be seeing a significant increase in wages over the next five years or so, while Cadden is moving to Oxford. Just like any other fan, if a player who's leaving is able to do the club a solid I'm grateful. But when it starts to veer towards fans blaming the actual player when he doesn't take a hit in his own personal circumstances to help the club I start to wonder a bit. The harsh truth is that the player has zero obligation to the club. All this chat of "we gave him his chance, we provided him with his start in football" is great, but let's not forget that if the player hadn't been talented enough to benefit the club he'd have been papped out on his arse like so many before him. The club looks after itself in that regard, and the player should be doing the same. As far as Cadden goes, we could have chosen to sell him on while he was under contract, couldn't we? There was interest a while back from Hearts and maybe Aberdeen I think, but the club decided to roll the dice and go down the compensation route. That was our call. The player is doing what's right for him and his family, as he absolutely should. He owes us nothing.

I think everyone knows that we have to give all of the new signings a chance, but this idea that any criticism of them based on their career to this point should be off the table is getting tedious. How boring would the place be if everyone just responded to a new signing by saying "great, I trust the managers judgement, let's see how this new guy gets on." It's natural to see a new signing and immediately look at where he's been before and what he's accomplished. Is that a cast-iron indication of how he'll do for us? Absolutely not, but to completely dismiss it as not worth discussing is mental. Personally, I'm not impressed by this guys career to this point. It's a signing that has me scratching my head a bit, as I'm fairly sure there are players available in Scotland for similar money who have a better track record. In fact, even though playing with a lone striker isn't really playing to Danny Johnson's strengths I'd have more confidence in him than this new guy based on what they've both done in the past. Johnson can score goals for us if given the chance, he's done it before. Now, just to clarify, this isn't me not "giving the new guy a chance," it's me, as a fan, looking at what he's done until now and forming an opinion. That opinion will change as he gets chances to play for us, and obviously I hope he turns out to be a superstar.

Tierney was never priced at £3.5 million though, was he? My point is, he's clearly one of the better defenders in the British game yet Arsenal aren't prepared to just chuck around the money needed to get him. Neither is any other English club by the looks of it. Much like Turnbull, the asking price for Tierney is pretty well known.

I know it's not the way most football fans want to see it, but Cadden owes us fuck all. He was paid to do a job, and when the time came and we stopped paying him he was free to move on within the rules of the game. If any rules have been broken we will have a case, and if not then that's just how it goes.

Yeah, well, I still don't think that Andy Carroll is any real barometer that English clubs will just chuck silly money around because they can. As I said, if that was the case Kieran Tierney would be an Arsenal player by now, wouldn't he? Also as I said, there wasn't a lot of money being chucked around a month or two back when Turnbull was available for £3 million pre-knee issues. I did see more than a few folk say they expected interest from down south, where it seems they wipe their arses using ten pound notes. Not much was forthcoming though.

Yeah, but that was a calculated risk of sorts. Carroll was a Liverpool player and an England international who had been a proven commodity in the English Premier League. There's a difference. Let's be honest, despite our belief to the contrary there wasn't a queue of top English sides with £3 million ready to buy Turnbull before his knee issues were known, so what makes you think there'll be any real interest when he's a few months (if that) removed from coming back? The risk associated with buying a player from a minor league who's not proven at the top level is enough for most of the bigger clubs down south to take into account, but when you throw in the knee issues as well? I think it'll either be Celtic, or he'll need to take some time to kick on and prove he's back to his best before anyone outside Scotland really looks to invest top dollar. This belief that "It's England, they'll just chuck millions at us because that's what they spend on players down there" isn't quite true. If it was Kieran Tierney would be an Arsenal player by now.

Is that the same Andy Carroll that West Ham were shopping around to potential buyers last summer and in January for next to nothing yet couldn't get a buyer? The same guy who's been let go and hasn't got a club yet? I don't doubt that clubs down south are awash with money, but just because they're rich doesn't make them absolute mugs. They'll be doing their due diligence before making any signing.

Like it or not, sport is one of the primary avenues for both drinking and gambling. The comparison with smoking and F1 isn't really the same, as it's not like punters were dashing to the corner shop to buy a pack of Benson & Hedges before the racing came on the telly that day. We may not like it, but there are some things that humans should be allowed to do without the government banning them "for our own good." Again, as I said previously, personal responsibility comes into it at some point. No one is forcing anyone to see an advert for Paddy Power and go make a bet. I see ads all the time for shit that I don't do. And if I decide to launch my weekly earnings into a Betfair account and lose them it's my fault, not that of the bookies in question or wherever I may have saw an advert.

Sadly, the entities who would fit within the image we're trying to project either aren't interested in spending money sponsoring a football club like us, or they simply can't afford to match what we're being offered. It's all well & good decrying the evil bookies, but if we knocked back PaddyPower, for example, and took a lesser amount from a different sponsor would we be happy to see the club take less money because of it? Would we be saying "well, it's worth it to be morally in the right" if we couldn't sign a decent striker to score the goals to keep us up, or afford to offer the next Davie Turnbull a contract as he progresses from youth team to first team? I'm all for us being socially aware when we can, but this is still a business.

Even so, I don't think there's many in the EPL who's approach is "fuck it, we have plenty so just get the lad in regardless of his knee being an issue or not." These clubs are looking for value for money as well, and there's no point in spending even a few million quid on a kid who's just had a relatively serious knee operation. I think he'll be here until the summer.

I'd wager that any club who are interested in him will be waiting to see if he's the same player when he returns. I'm not sure January will be enough time for them to assess that.

My question is, where does personal responsibility come into it? I've known people who's lives have been affected badly through gambling as well, but I wouldn't blame the gambling companies. I know many more people who can gamble for a bit of fun and it never becomes an issue. This is a good deal, and unless part of the trade-off is having to sign up for Paddy Power in order to be allowed to buy a shirt I don't see the problem. We've all moaned for years about sponsors on the shirts wasting the look of them, and when we get a deal that allows us to wear or buy them sponsor-free we're still moaning.

I have no idea how that could be a "lose" in all honesty, you can just ignore them. There has to be some benefit to the companies who sponsor us. The way I hear people we want the money on offer, but to offer nothing in return. This current deal is fantastic.

While being sponsored by a betting company isn't ideal, I'm not so sure there's a line of morally superior companies ready to cut us a cheque for sponsorship opportunities. It's a terrific deal financially by the looks of it, and we get our kit with no sponsor this year. Win/win by the looks of it.

As much as the minutiae of social media doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things, he should probably know better than to get involved in those kinds of games. He's a Motherwell player, we're still paying his wages, and I assume we're footing the bill for him to see specialists and whatnot, so it's common courtesy to leave shit like that well alone for the time being. If and when he signs for Celtic he can like and retweet Celtic-related pish all day long if he chooses to, but someone should probably be having a quiet word with him. If he thinks that what he's doing goes unnoticed by fans of both clubs and the media then he's incredibly naive.

Ye ragin, Yodo?

That will no doubt please certain people on here.

They'll just wear the shirt from last season probably.

Yup, I agree. I know two guys who would have bought the away shirt to wear in Portugal on holiday, but who are now saying they'll pick it up at the end of this season when it's down in price to wear on their holidays next year.