Big Wispy Flossy Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Not wishing to be too negative over the leaflet yesterday, but.....from memory, it didn't seem to concentrate on the main selling points and as a result didn't encourage me to go out and join immediately. I only found out about the £10 per month DD option via this site. This should have been emblazoned across the front. Also, it appeared to be written from a negative standpont ' join to prevent the possibility of the dreaded playoff' or words to that effect. Why not ' join and allow MFC to prosper as an SPFL club' I'm no PR expert, but didn't think it worked as a PR exercise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Replies 2.4k Created 12 yr Last Reply 3 yr Top Posters In This Topic 182 178 126 91 Popular Days Feb 1 56 Mar 17 48 Sep 3 30 Feb 2 28 Top Posters In This Topic weeyin 182 posts Kmcalpin 178 posts superward 126 posts steelboy 91 posts Popular Days Feb 1 2012 56 posts Mar 17 2016 48 posts Sep 3 2015 30 posts Feb 2 2013 28 posts Popular Posts milo September 20, 2017 Within hours of my daughter being born yesterday she was signed up the Well Society courtesy of her big second cousin Frazzie. "Since I was young" indeed! Andy_P December 7, 2016 Between the two meetings I felt it was a pretty positive evening. There was certainly cause for optimism at the club's AGM from a financial perspective. Losses to May of this year were cut conside nethertonwellfan December 4, 2012 I actually don't think the club give 2 shiny shites about the Well Society. Well they do for the money the fans are pouring in but not the bollocks about ".....doing things in the spirit of the model Posted Images Kmcalpin Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Not wishing to be too negative over the leaflet yesterday, but.....from memory, it didn't seem to concentrate on the main selling points and as a result didn't encourage me to go out and join immediately. I only found out about the £10 per month DD option via this site. This should have been emblazoned across the front. Also, it appeared to be written from a negative standpont ' join to prevent the possibility of the dreaded playoff' or words to that effect. Why not ' join and allow MFC to prosper as an SPFL club' I'm no PR expert, but didn't think it worked as a PR exercise I think many fans need to be shocked into joining. Hearts of course found that easy due to the well documented situation they were in. If you want the club to be here in 5 years time join and contribute now..... Nothing to be gained by beating about the bush. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... numpty Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Email update received today: Following Les Hutchison’s article in the Scottish Daily Mail at the week-end, found atwww.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3215143 , we are writing to provide you with an update on where we are as a society since he provided the club with an initial interest-free loan of £650k – an amount provided in order not only to acquire John Boyle’s shares but also remove the immediate threat of serious financial problems for Motherwell FC. An additional interest free loan of £380k has been made by Les. Key Headlines Les’ loan must be repaid according to the repayment agreement with the club and society which includes a repayment every six months over five years. If the Club or Society fail to make any three repayments, the agreement will be breached. Of the additional loan, which has to be paid earlier, there is an outstanding amount owing of £200k, which means one such repayment has already been missed – Les had emphasized it is a ‘hand-up not a hand-out’ It is also a requirement of the agreement for the Society to have a minimum adult membership of 2,000. We are more than halfway there and the figure is growing - but we need an extra injection. If fans don’t join the society in sufficient numbers, Les will not be convinced enough people are interested in the future of the Club and will withdraw his interest. We have made hundreds of phone calls throughout the summer and, with advice from the Foundation of Hearts, the society is launching a new recruitment drive in partnership with Motherwell FC In providing the loan, Les’ motivation was made clear. He wanted to support the Lanarkshire community and was convinced of the merits of Motherwell fans owning their own club. He was also convinced that the society could achieve the terms of the agreement. To demonstrate its commitment to the deal the society gave a guarantee to provide two loans to the club totalling £350k, the final portion of which is due in December this year. The Motherwell fans’ commitment to the deal is on top of the support already given to the club by the society. For example, the loans are addition to the shares worth £150k purchased at a time when the club needed to plug a cash shortfall. Also, the society has negotiated donations to the club and the Community Trust totalling a further £125k. For a small club with a limited fan-base and resources, such contributions match the original loan provided by Les Hutchison. That is something the members should be very proud of. On several occasions publicly, Les has made it known that he is giving the fans a ‘hand-up, not a hand-out’. Despite his prodigious financial status, Les has made it very clear that he is not a ‘White Knight’ charging in to bankroll the club. If his loans are not paid on the due dates, or if the fans don’t join the society in sufficient numbers, he will withdraw his interest in both the society and the club. He has made this ‘crystal clear’ by saying, ‘Les Hutchison does not want to own a football club’, no matter how fond he is of Motherwell. Les’ position may not be sufficiently understood by some fans. If we think that he will continue to provide funds for the club without repayment we will make a monumental blunder and could lose everything that we have worked so hard together to achieve. The only other potential option last winter for the club and the society was a potential foreign consortium, whom we knew little about. What we did know was that some of those involved had previously run a football club and were extremely unpopular with that club's supporters. So, our immediate target is to recruit 2,000 adult members contributing on average a minimum of £10 a month on an ongoing basis. By achieving that, we will both ensure that the society can financially protect the club as well as convincing Les that Motherwell fans really want to own and keep it in safe hands for themselves, their families and local community. Les has challenged us to reach that target by the end of December: a big ask, but your board is prepared to answer it by using our best endeavours to recruit new members. So far, we have recruited a total of almost 1,100 members, with approaching 360 paying monthly. That is a reasonable start, but we still need more, much more. While we are asking all new members to pay at least £10 per month by direct debit, we still need existing members to continue contributing by monthly direct debit or by any other means that suit their circumstances. Foundation of Hearts The progress we have made is often compared with the Foundation of Hearts. While there are clear similarities between us, there are significant differences, creating many challenges for the society. For example, the demographics of both fan-bases could not be more different – one from the less wealthy area of North Lanarkshire and the other from a wealthy, capital city establishing the FoH was all about rescuing their club from administration. Despite the reality, there is no current perception of jeopardy for the Motherwell fans currently we have a relatively small support - attendance figures for last season show an average of 4,200 (one quarter of Hearts’ average attendance). Of that, our home support is around 3/4,000. However, the objectives outlined in our agreement with Les and the Club were modified to take account of these differences. Hearts have over 8,000 members where we are targeting 2,000, Hearts have an average of £16/month on direct debit where we are targeting £10/month. Based on the Hearts model our targets are achievable if everyone understands what needs to be done and wants to be part of the future of our historic Club. Given these numbers, it’s therefore been a huge achievement already to sign up nearly half of our average gate, ie 1,650 members to the Well Society, including juniors: FoH has 8,000 members, which is also half their average home gate. So our sign-up rate as a proportion of our average gate is actually not too dissimilar to Hearts’. This gives us a lot of optimism that we can achieve our target of at least 2,000 adult members! To seek new ways to increase our recruitment levels, a team from the society and club visited Tynecastle to learn a bit more of how they continue to receive regular monthly pledges from their fans. We learned a lot and, as a consequence the society and club will launch a new joint recruitment campaign, resulting in two or three new initiatives throughout the coming months with the help of volunteers. (Please contact Craig Hughes Well.Society@motherwellfc.co.uk if you can help.) We are extremely grateful to Ann Budge, the directors of Hearts and the FoH for their extremely generous support. We would want to thank, in particular, Brian Cormack, chairman of FoH, for his most helpful advice.Thank you for your continuing support, your continuous pledges and for helping to protect and secure your club’s future!! Well Society Board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... weeyin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Interestingly (to me, at least) I didn't receive that email. EDIT: Turned up in my inbox now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Andy_P Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Isn't it obvious you are going to get yours as a recorded video. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Pepper Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Some very interesting points. ‘Les Hutchison does not want to own a football club’, no matter how fond he is of Motherwell. What if that's how Motherwell fans feel? At least he was asked. It doesn't matter if we have 2000 fans who are all on the dole or 10000 who are all millionaires, if there is no appetite for fan ownership amongst the fans (and I genuinely think at present that is the case) then nothing else really matters. The question they should be asking themselves is how do we create that appetite? I don't think the hard sell is working, and I hope to see a different approach with the upcoming campaigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... steelboy Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 As far as the maths goes, if 2000 adult members pay 10 quid a month for 3 years, then thar generates 720k (plus any interest if that is permitted). So adding that to the initial amount raised would appear to push over the 1 million required to pay back the loan. As others have said, you can stop at any time and still keep your membership. I think the underlying idea came from Hearts scheme where you can continue to pay and increase the sum available to the club for future interest free loans. It's not a bad model if you can afford it. According to Dempster and Weir the society requires over a million quid of liquid capital to run the club. So if we pay back Hutchinson where do we get the money to run the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... weeyin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Isn't it obvious you are going to get yours as a recorded video. By the time that happens, they will have created the technology to broadcast in 3D directly into my brain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... steelboy Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Some very interesting points. Les Hutchison does not want to own a football club, no matter how fond he is of Motherwell. What if that's how Motherwell fans feel? At least he was asked. It doesn't matter if we have 2000 fans who are all on the dole or 10000 who are all millionaires, if there is no appetite for fan ownership amongst the fans (and I genuinely think at present that is the case) then nothing else really matters. The question they should be asking themselves is how do we create that appetite? I don't think the hard sell is working, and I hope to see a different approach with the upcoming campaigns. Over 1000 have signed up so there definitely was an appetite. However the goalposts have been moved several times eg the club not making it clear the shares had to be bought by the society, Boyle threatening to sell the club to South Americans, this new loan deal with Hutchinson. Whether the appetite still exists is highly doubtful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... weeyin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 According to Dempster and Weir the society requires over a million quid of liquid capital to run the club. So if we pay back Hutchinson where do we get the money to run the club? That's a fair question that needs clarification from the Society. Presumably, part of the plan is for the continued 10 quid a month to swell the coffers - that would add 240k each season. However, as I understand it, the plan was for the club (rather than the Society) to be the first to pay back the loan if possible. Partially funded, presumably, from any profits made with transfer fees. I was hoping the Murphy sell-on was used for that, but again that remains unclear. Definitely need some more details on the repayment strategy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Pepper Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Over 1000 have signed up so there definitely was an appetite. However the goalposts have been moved several times eg the club not making it clear the shares had to be bought by the society, Boyle threatening to sell the club to South Americans, this new loan deal with Hutchinson. Whether the appetite still exists is highly doubtful. Fair point, I should have said sufficient appetite amongst fans to ensure fan ownership is sustainable. I agree with ur point about moving the goal posts as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... weeyin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 The most annoying thing is that "all" it took to help sort us out was 1 million. While obviously out of range for us mere mortals, it's small change for many football loving capitalists. Less than half of what Brighton paid for Jamie Murphy and a 10th of what Fulham paid for Ross McCormack. One big transfer deal and we'd be golden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... numpty Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 What if that's how Motherwell fans feel? At least he was asked. The 'Well Society is effectively asking the question. The "What if" part has already been answered pretty clearly over the last few years--given how hard it's been to find investment in the past, the most likely answers are that the club would either be sold to the first high enough bidder regardless of their intentions, or it would go out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Burn_Broomfield Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Well given less than half of our season ticket holders have confidence in the WS, adding to the wealthier supporters and businesses that the WS have consistently failed to impress enough for them to invest even a few grand in the venture should have alarm bells ringing loud and clear. The WS is doomed to failure, it has been unbelievable poorly organised and breeds zero confidence in its future for potential investors. I would imagine wealthier supporters would rather buy their own private shares in the club than contribute the same amount to the WS. They've also now hung us out to dry when it comes to Hutchinson as they have no (and will never have) means to repay this era of Baraclough spending in any reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... weeyin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Given the loans made from the Society to the Club over the past couple of years that have kept the club afloat, I wouldn't ever consider it a failure. I'm not saying it will meet it's final goal, but if it didn't exist we might not even be having this conversation. We'd be discussing if it was Morrisons or Tesco moving into Fir Park. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Kmcalpin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Well given less than half of our season ticket holders have confidence in the WS, Where is the evidence for this? Have you canvassed the season ticket holders to find out their views? ST holders who are not members have not joined for a variety of reasons. Yes, there are some who have no confidence in the Society granted; there are also some who would join but can't afford it; and believe it or not there are those who just haven't got round to it. Its always presumptious to speak on behalf of a large group if you haven't determined their views beforehand. Like it or not the Society has already saved the club from going into administration. That doesn't mean to say that its perfect it clearly isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Burn_Broomfield Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 The society has been on the go for the best part of 4 years and has so far failed to convince half of their core supporters to invest in it. They have failed to convince anyone wealthy of note from the local community/businesses to invest serious money in it. Let's not forget the thousands of Well fans who don't go regularly that also haven't bought into the idea. I would say that's pretty damming evidence that more people than not, don't have confidence in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... dennyc Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 In answer to what happens when Les moves on, possibly with the Society's money in his hip pocket. Presumably the intention is that the reshaping of the Football Club coupled with the ambition to generate substantial income from the sale of players we have developed will mean the Club will be trading at a profit and thus be self sufficient. There would be no need for the Society to provide day to day funding as long as the Football did not incur losses such as those seen the past few years. If, and it's a big if, the Club can operate profitably then the Members' monthly payments to the Society would eventually provide the Contingeancy Fund which was originally outlined. We can only hope that the business experience which Les has brought to the Club will help to achieve this goal. Also, if the Club can achieve profitability sooner than later, then it is possible that Les could be repaid without using up all the Society's monies. This would be the ideal solution but like many others I am not sure it can be achieved in the short term or soon enough to meet the repayment schedule. I think the Society Board need to clarify the following, rather than issuing statements which appear to me to more threatening rather than encouraging and positive. 1. What funds do the Society currently hold and how much of the original contributions remain? We already know £150k was given to the Club in time of need in return for (worthless?) shares and as such has gone. What of the rest and by how much is the balance growing each month through ongoing contributions? 2. Is it still the case that any monies provided to MFC in the future will be on a short term basis to be repaid as soon as possible? This was the original plan and one of the main reasons I signed up. 3. Is the Club now operating at a profit? We were told Les was insisting on faster, more up to date financial information... presumably to make sure we were not incurring losses each month. In summary Can the Society confirm that the Football Club is now self sufficient...notwithstanding the amounts due to Les...and that the proposed Business model is in place and working? Or at least give an indication when that is likely to be the case. I feel it would be much likelier to attract new Members if some positive news was released in this regard. If however the Club are still trading at a loss then I fear for it's future regardless of how many fans sign up over the next three months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Andy_P Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 It's another of those "more questions than answers" communications for me. First things first what are the immediate implications of the agreement being breached? Does this now give Les a get-out clause? Interest applied to the loan at a later stage? Access to revenues that will hopefully materialise as a result of recent investment? Why, when a reasonable timescale of five years for meeting targets both monetary and signed up members was discussed - reasonable given the massive amount of restructuring that has gone at the club and the additional personnel changes that have been made at WS admin level - a "challenge" is now being set less than a year since the takeover with just three months to achieve it? Frankly, it all begs the question is there now doubt that if Les doesn't see what he wants to see by December will, with that agreement breached at almost the first turn, will he be gone long before the five year relationship that was agreed upon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Spiderpig Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Who knows what promises were made by those running the WS to Mr Hutchison to secure the cash advance, I get the impression that promises may have been made re take up from fans that in all reality could not be met. The target of 2000 members by December with our fan base is just not going to happen everybody who wanted to join probably has by now,the rest either don't care or have not been convinced by the whole concept. For me a whole new approach is needed as I don't think that there are enough people out there who want to make a long term financial commitment to finance a football club with no perceived benifit to them as a return on their investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... ropy Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Signed up for a tenner at the weekend, 361 and counting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... dossertillidie Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Signed up a while back to do my bit paying £30 after donating £1000 the first time round Il pass comment on indulging in the disappointment I had initially of the failure to recognise and subsequently failure to follow up on my initial payment with the annual renewal. The above could be cited as one of the reasons why the society has in my view failed to really take off However I believe the crux of it is we just don't have as sad as it is to admit 50%of fa Saturday's attendance in a position to want to donate £10 per month to something they in monetary terms receive very little back for I have said from day 1 our club will always rely on a benefactor to support at least 50% of the club short to long term Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Mintymac Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Interesting to read how people perceive the WS concept . For me it was never about any benefit or return on my investment of roughly £2.50/week to a football club . The way I see it is that firstly it's my football club , the club I've loved watching for 48years . It's certainly not a financial investment where I would hope for a financial return , that's what stocks and shares are for . For me it's one thing only . A way of helping my club out in a small financial way so others can enjoy the journey I've had and hopefully at the same time secure it's future . Unless someone tells me a better way to do this . For people who are still thinking about it all I would say is don't over analyse it . Just do it . If eventually you think it's not working then stop your D/D but a least give it a chance . Some people who are a bit reluctant say oh we just need to find our level . No thanks I've been there a few times . I like the level were currently at and I would think most fans are too .Reading some of the hysteria that came from some fans pre play offs it appears they don't won't us to find our level either . So all am saying is at least give it a chance to work ,forget benefits to you and help our club out not a club out 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... dossertillidie Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Interesting to read how people perceive the WS concept . For me it was never about any benefit or return on my investment of roughly £2.50/week to a football club . The way I see it is that firstly it's my football club , the club I've loved watching for 48years . It's certainly not a financial investment where I would hope for a financial return , that's what stocks and shares are for . For me it's one thing only . A way of helping my club out in a small financial way so others can enjoy the journey I've had and hopefully at the same time secure it's future . Unless someone tells me a better way to do this . For people who are still thinking about it all I would say is don't over analyse it . Just do it . If eventually you think it's not working then stop your D/D but a least give it a chance . Some people who are a bit reluctant say oh we just need to find our level . No thanks I've been there a few times . I like the level were currently at and I would think most fans are too .Reading some of the hysteria that came from some fans pre play offs it appears they don't won't us to find our level either . So all am saying is at least give it a chance to work ,forget benefits to you and help our club out not a club out One thing you touch on which gives me the fear although I'm unsure how it effects the long term strategy is people cancelling there dd once hutchison has been paid and we are in full control I'm unclear as to what would happen? If enough cancel would it effect our ability to stay afloat and if so how quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Mintymac Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 That's one for the well society but I'd imagine a few might join a few might leave . But one thing is for sure if we don't get to the initial target we'll never know or need to answer that !!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 Next Page 48 of 95 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Loading... × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply Share More sharing options... Followers 3
Kmcalpin Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Not wishing to be too negative over the leaflet yesterday, but.....from memory, it didn't seem to concentrate on the main selling points and as a result didn't encourage me to go out and join immediately. I only found out about the £10 per month DD option via this site. This should have been emblazoned across the front. Also, it appeared to be written from a negative standpont ' join to prevent the possibility of the dreaded playoff' or words to that effect. Why not ' join and allow MFC to prosper as an SPFL club' I'm no PR expert, but didn't think it worked as a PR exercise I think many fans need to be shocked into joining. Hearts of course found that easy due to the well documented situation they were in. If you want the club to be here in 5 years time join and contribute now..... Nothing to be gained by beating about the bush. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Email update received today: Following Les Hutchison’s article in the Scottish Daily Mail at the week-end, found atwww.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3215143 , we are writing to provide you with an update on where we are as a society since he provided the club with an initial interest-free loan of £650k – an amount provided in order not only to acquire John Boyle’s shares but also remove the immediate threat of serious financial problems for Motherwell FC. An additional interest free loan of £380k has been made by Les. Key Headlines Les’ loan must be repaid according to the repayment agreement with the club and society which includes a repayment every six months over five years. If the Club or Society fail to make any three repayments, the agreement will be breached. Of the additional loan, which has to be paid earlier, there is an outstanding amount owing of £200k, which means one such repayment has already been missed – Les had emphasized it is a ‘hand-up not a hand-out’ It is also a requirement of the agreement for the Society to have a minimum adult membership of 2,000. We are more than halfway there and the figure is growing - but we need an extra injection. If fans don’t join the society in sufficient numbers, Les will not be convinced enough people are interested in the future of the Club and will withdraw his interest. We have made hundreds of phone calls throughout the summer and, with advice from the Foundation of Hearts, the society is launching a new recruitment drive in partnership with Motherwell FC In providing the loan, Les’ motivation was made clear. He wanted to support the Lanarkshire community and was convinced of the merits of Motherwell fans owning their own club. He was also convinced that the society could achieve the terms of the agreement. To demonstrate its commitment to the deal the society gave a guarantee to provide two loans to the club totalling £350k, the final portion of which is due in December this year. The Motherwell fans’ commitment to the deal is on top of the support already given to the club by the society. For example, the loans are addition to the shares worth £150k purchased at a time when the club needed to plug a cash shortfall. Also, the society has negotiated donations to the club and the Community Trust totalling a further £125k. For a small club with a limited fan-base and resources, such contributions match the original loan provided by Les Hutchison. That is something the members should be very proud of. On several occasions publicly, Les has made it known that he is giving the fans a ‘hand-up, not a hand-out’. Despite his prodigious financial status, Les has made it very clear that he is not a ‘White Knight’ charging in to bankroll the club. If his loans are not paid on the due dates, or if the fans don’t join the society in sufficient numbers, he will withdraw his interest in both the society and the club. He has made this ‘crystal clear’ by saying, ‘Les Hutchison does not want to own a football club’, no matter how fond he is of Motherwell. Les’ position may not be sufficiently understood by some fans. If we think that he will continue to provide funds for the club without repayment we will make a monumental blunder and could lose everything that we have worked so hard together to achieve. The only other potential option last winter for the club and the society was a potential foreign consortium, whom we knew little about. What we did know was that some of those involved had previously run a football club and were extremely unpopular with that club's supporters. So, our immediate target is to recruit 2,000 adult members contributing on average a minimum of £10 a month on an ongoing basis. By achieving that, we will both ensure that the society can financially protect the club as well as convincing Les that Motherwell fans really want to own and keep it in safe hands for themselves, their families and local community. Les has challenged us to reach that target by the end of December: a big ask, but your board is prepared to answer it by using our best endeavours to recruit new members. So far, we have recruited a total of almost 1,100 members, with approaching 360 paying monthly. That is a reasonable start, but we still need more, much more. While we are asking all new members to pay at least £10 per month by direct debit, we still need existing members to continue contributing by monthly direct debit or by any other means that suit their circumstances. Foundation of Hearts The progress we have made is often compared with the Foundation of Hearts. While there are clear similarities between us, there are significant differences, creating many challenges for the society. For example, the demographics of both fan-bases could not be more different – one from the less wealthy area of North Lanarkshire and the other from a wealthy, capital city establishing the FoH was all about rescuing their club from administration. Despite the reality, there is no current perception of jeopardy for the Motherwell fans currently we have a relatively small support - attendance figures for last season show an average of 4,200 (one quarter of Hearts’ average attendance). Of that, our home support is around 3/4,000. However, the objectives outlined in our agreement with Les and the Club were modified to take account of these differences. Hearts have over 8,000 members where we are targeting 2,000, Hearts have an average of £16/month on direct debit where we are targeting £10/month. Based on the Hearts model our targets are achievable if everyone understands what needs to be done and wants to be part of the future of our historic Club. Given these numbers, it’s therefore been a huge achievement already to sign up nearly half of our average gate, ie 1,650 members to the Well Society, including juniors: FoH has 8,000 members, which is also half their average home gate. So our sign-up rate as a proportion of our average gate is actually not too dissimilar to Hearts’. This gives us a lot of optimism that we can achieve our target of at least 2,000 adult members! To seek new ways to increase our recruitment levels, a team from the society and club visited Tynecastle to learn a bit more of how they continue to receive regular monthly pledges from their fans. We learned a lot and, as a consequence the society and club will launch a new joint recruitment campaign, resulting in two or three new initiatives throughout the coming months with the help of volunteers. (Please contact Craig Hughes Well.Society@motherwellfc.co.uk if you can help.) We are extremely grateful to Ann Budge, the directors of Hearts and the FoH for their extremely generous support. We would want to thank, in particular, Brian Cormack, chairman of FoH, for his most helpful advice.Thank you for your continuing support, your continuous pledges and for helping to protect and secure your club’s future!! Well Society Board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Interestingly (to me, at least) I didn't receive that email. EDIT: Turned up in my inbox now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Isn't it obvious you are going to get yours as a recorded video. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Some very interesting points. ‘Les Hutchison does not want to own a football club’, no matter how fond he is of Motherwell. What if that's how Motherwell fans feel? At least he was asked. It doesn't matter if we have 2000 fans who are all on the dole or 10000 who are all millionaires, if there is no appetite for fan ownership amongst the fans (and I genuinely think at present that is the case) then nothing else really matters. The question they should be asking themselves is how do we create that appetite? I don't think the hard sell is working, and I hope to see a different approach with the upcoming campaigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 As far as the maths goes, if 2000 adult members pay 10 quid a month for 3 years, then thar generates 720k (plus any interest if that is permitted). So adding that to the initial amount raised would appear to push over the 1 million required to pay back the loan. As others have said, you can stop at any time and still keep your membership. I think the underlying idea came from Hearts scheme where you can continue to pay and increase the sum available to the club for future interest free loans. It's not a bad model if you can afford it. According to Dempster and Weir the society requires over a million quid of liquid capital to run the club. So if we pay back Hutchinson where do we get the money to run the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Isn't it obvious you are going to get yours as a recorded video. By the time that happens, they will have created the technology to broadcast in 3D directly into my brain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Some very interesting points. Les Hutchison does not want to own a football club, no matter how fond he is of Motherwell. What if that's how Motherwell fans feel? At least he was asked. It doesn't matter if we have 2000 fans who are all on the dole or 10000 who are all millionaires, if there is no appetite for fan ownership amongst the fans (and I genuinely think at present that is the case) then nothing else really matters. The question they should be asking themselves is how do we create that appetite? I don't think the hard sell is working, and I hope to see a different approach with the upcoming campaigns. Over 1000 have signed up so there definitely was an appetite. However the goalposts have been moved several times eg the club not making it clear the shares had to be bought by the society, Boyle threatening to sell the club to South Americans, this new loan deal with Hutchinson. Whether the appetite still exists is highly doubtful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 According to Dempster and Weir the society requires over a million quid of liquid capital to run the club. So if we pay back Hutchinson where do we get the money to run the club? That's a fair question that needs clarification from the Society. Presumably, part of the plan is for the continued 10 quid a month to swell the coffers - that would add 240k each season. However, as I understand it, the plan was for the club (rather than the Society) to be the first to pay back the loan if possible. Partially funded, presumably, from any profits made with transfer fees. I was hoping the Murphy sell-on was used for that, but again that remains unclear. Definitely need some more details on the repayment strategy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Over 1000 have signed up so there definitely was an appetite. However the goalposts have been moved several times eg the club not making it clear the shares had to be bought by the society, Boyle threatening to sell the club to South Americans, this new loan deal with Hutchinson. Whether the appetite still exists is highly doubtful. Fair point, I should have said sufficient appetite amongst fans to ensure fan ownership is sustainable. I agree with ur point about moving the goal posts as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 The most annoying thing is that "all" it took to help sort us out was 1 million. While obviously out of range for us mere mortals, it's small change for many football loving capitalists. Less than half of what Brighton paid for Jamie Murphy and a 10th of what Fulham paid for Ross McCormack. One big transfer deal and we'd be golden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 What if that's how Motherwell fans feel? At least he was asked. The 'Well Society is effectively asking the question. The "What if" part has already been answered pretty clearly over the last few years--given how hard it's been to find investment in the past, the most likely answers are that the club would either be sold to the first high enough bidder regardless of their intentions, or it would go out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Well given less than half of our season ticket holders have confidence in the WS, adding to the wealthier supporters and businesses that the WS have consistently failed to impress enough for them to invest even a few grand in the venture should have alarm bells ringing loud and clear. The WS is doomed to failure, it has been unbelievable poorly organised and breeds zero confidence in its future for potential investors. I would imagine wealthier supporters would rather buy their own private shares in the club than contribute the same amount to the WS. They've also now hung us out to dry when it comes to Hutchinson as they have no (and will never have) means to repay this era of Baraclough spending in any reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Given the loans made from the Society to the Club over the past couple of years that have kept the club afloat, I wouldn't ever consider it a failure. I'm not saying it will meet it's final goal, but if it didn't exist we might not even be having this conversation. We'd be discussing if it was Morrisons or Tesco moving into Fir Park. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Well given less than half of our season ticket holders have confidence in the WS, Where is the evidence for this? Have you canvassed the season ticket holders to find out their views? ST holders who are not members have not joined for a variety of reasons. Yes, there are some who have no confidence in the Society granted; there are also some who would join but can't afford it; and believe it or not there are those who just haven't got round to it. Its always presumptious to speak on behalf of a large group if you haven't determined their views beforehand. Like it or not the Society has already saved the club from going into administration. That doesn't mean to say that its perfect it clearly isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 The society has been on the go for the best part of 4 years and has so far failed to convince half of their core supporters to invest in it. They have failed to convince anyone wealthy of note from the local community/businesses to invest serious money in it. Let's not forget the thousands of Well fans who don't go regularly that also haven't bought into the idea. I would say that's pretty damming evidence that more people than not, don't have confidence in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 In answer to what happens when Les moves on, possibly with the Society's money in his hip pocket. Presumably the intention is that the reshaping of the Football Club coupled with the ambition to generate substantial income from the sale of players we have developed will mean the Club will be trading at a profit and thus be self sufficient. There would be no need for the Society to provide day to day funding as long as the Football did not incur losses such as those seen the past few years. If, and it's a big if, the Club can operate profitably then the Members' monthly payments to the Society would eventually provide the Contingeancy Fund which was originally outlined. We can only hope that the business experience which Les has brought to the Club will help to achieve this goal. Also, if the Club can achieve profitability sooner than later, then it is possible that Les could be repaid without using up all the Society's monies. This would be the ideal solution but like many others I am not sure it can be achieved in the short term or soon enough to meet the repayment schedule. I think the Society Board need to clarify the following, rather than issuing statements which appear to me to more threatening rather than encouraging and positive. 1. What funds do the Society currently hold and how much of the original contributions remain? We already know £150k was given to the Club in time of need in return for (worthless?) shares and as such has gone. What of the rest and by how much is the balance growing each month through ongoing contributions? 2. Is it still the case that any monies provided to MFC in the future will be on a short term basis to be repaid as soon as possible? This was the original plan and one of the main reasons I signed up. 3. Is the Club now operating at a profit? We were told Les was insisting on faster, more up to date financial information... presumably to make sure we were not incurring losses each month. In summary Can the Society confirm that the Football Club is now self sufficient...notwithstanding the amounts due to Les...and that the proposed Business model is in place and working? Or at least give an indication when that is likely to be the case. I feel it would be much likelier to attract new Members if some positive news was released in this regard. If however the Club are still trading at a loss then I fear for it's future regardless of how many fans sign up over the next three months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 It's another of those "more questions than answers" communications for me. First things first what are the immediate implications of the agreement being breached? Does this now give Les a get-out clause? Interest applied to the loan at a later stage? Access to revenues that will hopefully materialise as a result of recent investment? Why, when a reasonable timescale of five years for meeting targets both monetary and signed up members was discussed - reasonable given the massive amount of restructuring that has gone at the club and the additional personnel changes that have been made at WS admin level - a "challenge" is now being set less than a year since the takeover with just three months to achieve it? Frankly, it all begs the question is there now doubt that if Les doesn't see what he wants to see by December will, with that agreement breached at almost the first turn, will he be gone long before the five year relationship that was agreed upon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Who knows what promises were made by those running the WS to Mr Hutchison to secure the cash advance, I get the impression that promises may have been made re take up from fans that in all reality could not be met. The target of 2000 members by December with our fan base is just not going to happen everybody who wanted to join probably has by now,the rest either don't care or have not been convinced by the whole concept. For me a whole new approach is needed as I don't think that there are enough people out there who want to make a long term financial commitment to finance a football club with no perceived benifit to them as a return on their investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Signed up for a tenner at the weekend, 361 and counting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dossertillidie Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Signed up a while back to do my bit paying £30 after donating £1000 the first time round Il pass comment on indulging in the disappointment I had initially of the failure to recognise and subsequently failure to follow up on my initial payment with the annual renewal. The above could be cited as one of the reasons why the society has in my view failed to really take off However I believe the crux of it is we just don't have as sad as it is to admit 50%of fa Saturday's attendance in a position to want to donate £10 per month to something they in monetary terms receive very little back for I have said from day 1 our club will always rely on a benefactor to support at least 50% of the club short to long term Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintymac Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Interesting to read how people perceive the WS concept . For me it was never about any benefit or return on my investment of roughly £2.50/week to a football club . The way I see it is that firstly it's my football club , the club I've loved watching for 48years . It's certainly not a financial investment where I would hope for a financial return , that's what stocks and shares are for . For me it's one thing only . A way of helping my club out in a small financial way so others can enjoy the journey I've had and hopefully at the same time secure it's future . Unless someone tells me a better way to do this . For people who are still thinking about it all I would say is don't over analyse it . Just do it . If eventually you think it's not working then stop your D/D but a least give it a chance . Some people who are a bit reluctant say oh we just need to find our level . No thanks I've been there a few times . I like the level were currently at and I would think most fans are too .Reading some of the hysteria that came from some fans pre play offs it appears they don't won't us to find our level either . So all am saying is at least give it a chance to work ,forget benefits to you and help our club out not a club out 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dossertillidie Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Interesting to read how people perceive the WS concept . For me it was never about any benefit or return on my investment of roughly £2.50/week to a football club . The way I see it is that firstly it's my football club , the club I've loved watching for 48years . It's certainly not a financial investment where I would hope for a financial return , that's what stocks and shares are for . For me it's one thing only . A way of helping my club out in a small financial way so others can enjoy the journey I've had and hopefully at the same time secure it's future . Unless someone tells me a better way to do this . For people who are still thinking about it all I would say is don't over analyse it . Just do it . If eventually you think it's not working then stop your D/D but a least give it a chance . Some people who are a bit reluctant say oh we just need to find our level . No thanks I've been there a few times . I like the level were currently at and I would think most fans are too .Reading some of the hysteria that came from some fans pre play offs it appears they don't won't us to find our level either . So all am saying is at least give it a chance to work ,forget benefits to you and help our club out not a club out One thing you touch on which gives me the fear although I'm unsure how it effects the long term strategy is people cancelling there dd once hutchison has been paid and we are in full control I'm unclear as to what would happen? If enough cancel would it effect our ability to stay afloat and if so how quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintymac Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 That's one for the well society but I'd imagine a few might join a few might leave . But one thing is for sure if we don't get to the initial target we'll never know or need to answer that !!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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