steelboy Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Agree with all that Steelboy but the point is, it doesn't matter what the product is - or how poor it is - every utterance in public from the man at the top should be a positive one! Doesn't matter if your selling cars, double-glazing or doughnuts, they are the best doughnuts in the world is what you will hear from the bloke selling them! As for lack of a sponsor, even the Welsh Football League has a sponsor and different ones right down the pyramid so you cant tell me that there wasn't/isn't someone out there that would be happy to put their brand on our game. Am sure we would all prefer a name like Motorola again on our shirts rather than Cash Converters but you cut your clothe according to what's on the table! they probably could get a sponsor but i think they have decided that they want more or less a blue chip sponsor and having a wonga/cash converters type deal would do more damage than good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 The English lower non-leagues even have sponsorship, so for us to have none is pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 As for lack of a sponsor, even the Welsh Football League has a sponsor and different ones right down the pyramid so you cant tell me that there wasn't/isn't someone out there that would be happy to put their brand on our game. One one hand supporters criticise authorities for giving away Scottish football on the cheap. On the other hand supporters criticize authorities for trying to maintain a level of sponsorship income. Scottish football could have a sponsor easily, that's not the problem. It's getting a sponsor willing to pay the asking price. Better to go two or three seasons without a sponsor but keep the price up or lower it and reduce the sponsorship income in the long term? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 All Doncaster has been doing is waiting for Rangers to return to the top flight. Even if that is the case, a creative businessman could have structured some kind of deal with escalating payments year on year or similar so that the value of the final year could set a baseline for future contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 All Doncaster has been doing is waiting for Rangers to return to the top flight. Even if that is the case, a creative businessman could have structured some kind of deal with escalating payments year on year or similar so that the value of the final year could set a baseline for future contracts. it's probably not the cost that is deterring potential sponsors more the association with such a problematic league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Nobody want to sponsor a league that involves Celtic and not Rangers. Various companies that had interests in both clubs pulled out of Celtic when Rangers were liquidated. Doncaster is not cut out for the job but clubs need to take far more responsibility given the drop in quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 right now the product is terrible. the quality of player in the league has declined greatly and there hasn't been a title battle for years. there's not much you can say in favour of the league. You obviously never watched Scottish football in the mid / late 60s. When was the last time we had 3 or more teams challenging for the league title? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 You obviously never watched Scottish football in the mid / late 60s. When was the last time we had 3 or more teams challenging for the league title? what's that got to do with the price of fish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 what's that got to do with the price of fish? Well it was your good self that raised the issues of the terrible standard of football and lack of competition for the league title. I was merely responding to the points you yourself raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 The product is terrible because we have no money, we have no money because the product is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 The first thing Scottish football has to do is to stop flagellating itself because it doesn't compare to the big Five. We will never get any where comparing ourself with England. There wasn't much between English and Scottish football before the television era but that time will never come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 I enjoy Scottish football. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 Uefa/Fifa/tv are fast creating a two tier football structure with the top tier being fast removed from the grasp of the working man/woman. I accept that Scottish football isnt at the same technical standard as champions league but I have become bored with that as its the same teams/players being over exposed on tv season after season. This year Ive cancelled my skysports and been to more motherwell games than in any season since before my kids were born. The quality may not gave been great at times but it has felt more "honest" and its "ours". As a result I have really enjoyed the overall experience. Does that make sense? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 I accept that Scottish football isnt at the same technical standard as champions league but I have become bored with that as its the same teams/players being over exposed on tv season after season. This year Ive cancelled my skysports and been to more motherwell games than in any season since before my kids were born. The quality may not gave been great at times but it has felt more "honest" and its "ours". As a result I have really enjoyed the overall experience. Does that make sense? My feelings exactly. Its been decades now since Scottish teams could compete with the best in Europe. I don't ever recall Well competing with the best in Europe to be honest. The current rich V poor situation is all down to media hype, overexposure and brainwashing. How often do folk want to watch Barcelona V Manchester United or Chelsea V Barcelona? The same goes for the EPL. Eventually the game will return to its roots and fans will have more realistic expectations and the game as a whole will benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 My feelings exactly. Its been decades now since Scottish teams could compete with the best in Europe. I don't ever recall Well competing with the best in Europe to be honest. The current rich V poor situation is all down to media hype, overexposure and brainwashing. How often do folk want to watch Barcelona V Manchester United or Chelsea V Barcelona? The same goes for the EPL. Eventually the game will return to its roots and fans will have more realistic expectations and the game as a whole will benefit. I think the current rich v poor is partly down to that but it is also down to the reach that some of these English teams have. Remember the Game 39 proposal? Got to say I get a lot of enjoyment out of sport on the telly but I've had just as much enjoyment out of watching Dunfermline v Cowdenbeath as I get out of watching Liverpool v Man City or something. And nothing beats actually going out and going to the football. I think we should be trying to get a much more sensible TV package that works well and provides the finances that our teams need but doesn't mean we sell out to them. But whilst Setanta was a problem the teams have re-budgeted now and I don't think no TV package would be the same problem it was then but I do strongly believe the lack of a sponsor is strangling us. My suggestions would be: 1) Limit live TV games to one per weekend, perhaps two post split, one from each end. 2) Pick a time that works for fans rather than as the poor relation with England - both BT and Sky are multi channel so no reason we can't be on at the same time. I'd suggest Sat 1245pm, Sat 530pm and Sun 3pm are the least unacceptable. 3) Sell a TV highlights package at a child friendly time (i.e. 6pm Sunday) to get kids interested. 4) On said highlights programme, more football and less talk. 5) Fight tooth and nail for a sponsor. 6) Clubs work together to make football more affordable for away fans. Waiting for the English bubble to burst is naïve and won't work. BT Sport have tonnes of money to chuck at football since they basically give it away with their profits from elsewhere so it is not likely that is coming any time soon. In Scotland we have not reacted well enough to the changes in the market. And this is the SFA, SPFL and the clubs both individually and collectively. We will never compete with England but we can definitely do better than we are doing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 I think the current rich v poor is partly down to that but it is also down to the reach that some of these English teams have. Remember the Game 39 proposal? Got to say I get a lot of enjoyment out of sport on the telly but I've had just as much enjoyment out of watching Dunfermline v Cowdenbeath as I get out of watching Liverpool v Man City or something. And nothing beats actually going out and going to the football. I think we should be trying to get a much more sensible TV package that works well and provides the finances that our teams need but doesn't mean we sell out to them. But whilst Setanta was a problem the teams have re-budgeted now and I don't think no TV package would be the same problem it was then but I do strongly believe the lack of a sponsor is strangling us. My suggestions would be: 1) Limit live TV games to one per weekend, perhaps two post split, one from each end. 2) Pick a time that works for fans rather than as the poor relation with England - both BT and Sky are multi channel so no reason we can't be on at the same time. I'd suggest Sat 1245pm, Sat 530pm and Sun 3pm are the least unacceptable. 3) Sell a TV highlights package at a child friendly time (i.e. 6pm Sunday) to get kids interested. 4) On said highlights programme, more football and less talk. 5) Fight tooth and nail for a sponsor. 6) Clubs work together to make football more affordable for away fans. Waiting for the English bubble to burst is naïve and won't work. BT Sport have tonnes of money to chuck at football since they basically give it away with their profits from elsewhere so it is not likely that is coming any time soon. In Scotland we have not reacted well enough to the changes in the market. And this is the SFA, SPFL and the clubs both individually and collectively. We will never compete with England but we can definitely do better than we are doing. Watch yourself Tweed. Doncaster will have a hit out on you with common sense progressive ideas like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 I think the current rich v poor is partly down to that but it is also down to the reach that some of these English teams have. Remember the Game 39 proposal? Got to say I get a lot of enjoyment out of sport on the telly but I've had just as much enjoyment out of watching Dunfermline v Cowdenbeath as I get out of watching Liverpool v Man City or something. And nothing beats actually going out and going to the football. I think we should be trying to get a much more sensible TV package that works well and provides the finances that our teams need but doesn't mean we sell out to them. But whilst Setanta was a problem the teams have re-budgeted now and I don't think no TV package would be the same problem it was then but I do strongly believe the lack of a sponsor is strangling us. My suggestions would be: 1) Limit live TV games to one per weekend, perhaps two post split, one from each end. 2) Pick a time that works for fans rather than as the poor relation with England - both BT and Sky are multi channel so no reason we can't be on at the same time. I'd suggest Sat 1245pm, Sat 530pm and Sun 3pm are the least unacceptable. 3) Sell a TV highlights package at a child friendly time (i.e. 6pm Sunday) to get kids interested. 4) On said highlights programme, more football and less talk. 5) Fight tooth and nail for a sponsor. 6) Clubs work together to make football more affordable for away fans. Waiting for the English bubble to burst is naïve and won't work. BT Sport have tonnes of money to chuck at football since they basically give it away with their profits from elsewhere so it is not likely that is coming any time soon. In Scotland we have not reacted well enough to the changes in the market. And this is the SFA, SPFL and the clubs both individually and collectively. We will never compete with England but we can definitely do better than we are doing. Good lord. A sensible view of Scottish football's potential space for progression on television. To the dungeons with you. I agree with all points made, but would add a slight change to #4. Less inane talk. There is a market for football fans who want to listen to quality analysis which is just not served with the current humdrum, neanderthal chatter which we get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 Good lord. A sensible view of Scottish football's potential space for progression on television. To the dungeons with you. I agree with all points made, but would add a slight change to #4. Less inane talk. There is a market for football fans who want to listen to quality analysis which is just not served with the current humdrum, neanderthal chatter which we get. Agree, my idea of analysis is not "talk us through the goal then", "Well he picked the ball up in his own half, played it out wide and met the cross and put it into the net" . People are actually getting paid big bucks for that kind of drivel ( that's when they actually describe it as eloquently as that) At least Match Of The Day gives their viewers some credit that they can actually understand basic tactics I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 My original post was really talking about a child friendly highlights package and I think too much talk, no matter the quality, would be a switch off for those with poor concentration. MOTD style analysis is ideal for a later programme aimed exclusively at adults. Absolutely agree about the quality of analysis, it is dreadful. Pat Bonnar one of the few with any actual meaningful insight. Prime example was in our 3-3 with Celtic, our last goal. The whole thing happened because of a stunning defence splitter by Reid, was it mentioned? nope, they just said McCall through on a good sub in Ainsworth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 Aye, it's sad that the football on NBC often has better analysis than MotD. However, it still has a long way to go to match the 'home' sports where they spend hours breaking down everything to the smallest detail and generally treat their audiences as adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I've had just as much enjoyment out of watching Dunfermline v Cowdenbeath as I get out of watching Liverpool v Man City or something. And nothing beats actually going out and going to the football. Ditto. An intriguing encounter. Hopefully both clubs will have gained financially from the play off games. Of course we can't just sit and wait for the English bubble to burst. I think that will happen anyway but the Scottish game has to be proactive and come up with progressive initiatives to boost the game north of the border. Pricing, media coverage and facilities all need to be looked at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 About attracting away fans I've said before you should be able to buy a 'season ticket' for away matches. Not many fans are going to be able to go to every away match but say the 'season ticket' has 5 or 10 tickets in it that can be used at any non ticket match at a slightly reduced cost. I went to one away match last season but if I could pay upfront say £75 for 5 away entries over the season I'd probably do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 For a long time I've thought that something could be done for away fans along the those lines, maybe on a geographical basis. For instance, us, St. Mirren, Thistle and Killie could put together an away ticket for one match at each of the other venues for your team. Making it one match only would address the split but there would probably be league rules preventing it as the teams not involved might see it as reducing the away supports they receive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 About attracting away fans I've said before you should be able to buy a 'season ticket' for away matches. Not many fans are going to be able to go to every away match but say the 'season ticket' has 5 or 10 tickets in it that can be used at any non ticket match at a slightly reduced cost. I went to one away match last season but if I could pay upfront say £75 for 5 away entries over the season I'd probably do so. A good idea and one which I back. The devil is in the detail however. How would the £75 be split, given that some clubs charge more than others for entry? MFC raised this idea several years ago and discussed it with other SPL clubs. One or two agreed (Kilmarnock and Dunfermline come to mind) but many opposed it - mainly the city clubs. The issue would be trying to get agreement between club representatives. In the SPL that was virtually impossible, with bickering, squabbling and the usual horse trading going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 The one big problem I see with a season ticket for particular games is if one of them gets moved and you can't make it. If it was a deal for 3 or 5 games it would probably then be poor value for money. Having a deal where you pick and choose games sounds like a hell of a lot of administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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