2020/21 Transfer Discussion Thread

[postiejim]

9 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I don’t really see what more the club can do, it’s not like it only happens at Motherwell is it ?

I agree with you Yorkyred , I understand the club can’t do anything and that it’s happening at other clubs . We’ve done ok in transfer fees over the past few years and that’s always welcome for club like ours . But imagine a scenario where the club is financially secure and has a squad that’s shite and we get relegated.....nah that couldn’t happen .

[wellwell91]

12 hours ago, postiejim said:

Our best young players being cherrypicked before we can get them under contract will eventually bite us on the arse.
Do we actually have any good youth players ready to break into the first team ? 

Can’t sign them on professional contract till their 17 so if they get “cherrypicked” before then not a lot we or any other club can do 

[ropy]

I am assuming we didn’t offer Hemphrey a contract so he was free to sign for who he wanted.

[dennyc]

53 minutes ago, ropy said:

I am assuming we didn’t offer Hemphrey a contract so he was free to sign for who he wanted.

I read that we offered him a fairly lengthy contract but that he chose to let his existing contract expire and then join Stoke. Nothing more Motherwell could do to stop him.

He was with us for 10 years I think, so we should benefit from training compensation, based on training costs from age 12. It does not matter that he waited until his contract expired before joining Stoke. Training compensation is due for training costs from age 12-21, and payable in respect of all  future transfers up to the end of the season of the players 23rd birthday. So every club that develops a player gets a slice of the transfer fee,.

Last I read, for cross border moves the fee due per Uefa is 90k Euros for each full year from year 12. I assume we are a Category 1 club as in the top league of a Uefa affiliated country.

[ropy]

19 minutes ago, dennyc said:

I read that we offered him a fairly lengthy contract but that he chose to let his existing contract expire and then join Stoke. Nothing more Motherwell could do to stop him.

He was with us for 10 years I think, so we should benefit from training compensation, based on training costs from age 12. It does not matter that he waited until his contract expired before joining Stoke. Training compensation is due for training costs from age 12-21, and payable in respect of all  future transfers up to the end of the season of the players 23rd birthday. So every club that develops a player gets a slice of the transfer fee,.

Last I read, for cross border moves the fee due per Uefa is 90k Euros for each full year from year 12. I assume we are a Category 1 club as in the top league of a Uefa affiliated country.

That’s more positive then, I thought we had simply gone our own ways.

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, ropy said:

That’s more positive then, I thought we had simply gone our own ways.

That's my reading of it anyway. The compensation was introduced to try and reward the developing Club. 

And if a player moves between Associations after the Training Compensation age limit has passed,  Solidarity payments kick in based yet again on the "Training Years".  Every club is due a payment from the transfer fee for every year between ages 12 and 21 that they developed the player.  in practice 5% of the transfer fee is set aside and distributed amongst the "Training Clubs" on a pro rata basis reflecting the time spent at each club.. Later years are rewarded at a higher rate than earlier years. Again in an attempt to compensate clubs for player development.

So two separate compensation safety nets, both linked to training and development.

The bugger is that the moves need to be cross border.  Then a set fee is paid based on a criteria drawn up by Fifa (I think) and adopted by Uefa Associations and others worldwide. Think back to Cadden,  Unlike Uefa, the US had not signed up to the schemes so Columbus argue we are due nothing. If he had gone to Oxford we would have been automatically compensated. Annoyingly the US Authorities agree the compensation scheme has merit and intend getting on board. May even have joined up by now. But perhaps too late for us.

Within Associations the Clubs can either agree a fee (with add ons if possible) or go to a Tribunal which usually sets a "one off" fee with no add ons. The best examples I can come up with in Scotland are Ferguson from Accies to Aberdeen (Tribunal), Hastie to Rangers ( Clubs agree terms). Accies ended up with a flat fee and no add ons, Motherwell got a negotiated fee plus add ons.

If Campbell was to move to Hibs or Aberdeen, it would likely be better for us to negotiate a transfer fee with add ons in January rather than risk a Tribunal when his contract has run out. Lottery time!  Accies were certainly not happy with the outcome of the Ferguson Tribunal.

[daver]

I read that we offered him a fairly lengthy contract but that he chose to let his existing contract expire and then join Stoke. Nothing more Motherwell could do to stop him.
He was with us for 10 years I think, so we should benefit from training compensation, based on training costs from age 12. It does not matter that he waited until his contract expired before joining Stoke. Training compensation is due for training costs from age 12-21, and payable in respect of all  future transfers up to the end of the season of the players 23rd birthday. So every club that develops a player gets a slice of the transfer fee,.
Last I read, for cross border moves the fee due per Uefa is 90k Euros for each full year from year 12. I assume we are a Category 1 club as in the top league of a Uefa affiliated country.

Not sure how much difference it makes but I think we're a category 2 country. The larger, higher ranking countries are category 1.

[dennyc]

6 minutes ago, daver said:

1 hour ago, dennyc said:

I read that we offered him a fairly lengthy contract but that he chose to let his existing contract expire and then join Stoke. Nothing more Motherwell could do to stop him.
He was with us for 10 years I think, so we should benefit from training compensation, based on training costs from age 12. It does not matter that he waited until his contract expired before joining Stoke. Training compensation is due for training costs from age 12-21, and payable in respect of all  future transfers up to the end of the season of the players 23rd birthday. So every club that develops a player gets a slice of the transfer fee,.
Last I read, for cross border moves the fee due per Uefa is 90k Euros for each full year from year 12. I assume we are a Category 1 club as in the top league of a Uefa affiliated country.

Not sure how much difference it makes but I think we're a category 2 country. The larger, higher ranking countries are category 1.

I wasn't sure so could be. There is a table kicking around which sets out per category. I'll try and find it

60k per year Euros if Category 2 . And we are Category 2 per the list just found.  Thanks. 

[weeyin]

As per FIFA, to "keep training costs reasonable", from the ages of 12 - 15, every club is considered category four.

Apparently, in Europe, only England, France, Germany, Holland, Spain and Italy have Category One clubs.

I read a slightly out of date article that said it's 10,000 Euros per year for Cat 4 and 60,000 Euros per year for Cat 2, but expect that's quite close to the mark.

[Ped_MFC]

Official site shows Hemfrey joined age 10 in 2012. Left aged 18 this summer.

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/player/robbie-hemfrey/

10k from 12-15 is quoted but I assume we get nothing for training until 2014?

[Ped_MFC]

Jordan Archer signs until January as goalkeeping cover reports the official site.

[Thunderlips]

Jordan Archer signed until January. Could do worse. Excellent signing. 

[GazzyB]

£3m for Turnbull down the drain in 2 months on goalies

[weeyin]

8 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

£3m for Turnbull down the drain in 2 months on goalies

We must have bumped up our wages if we blew that on 2 free agents.

[parko66]

First video on Youtube after typing in Jordan Archer doesn't fill me with much confidence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-8oxiI0q-k

 

 

[ropy]

12 minutes ago, parko66 said:

First video on Youtube after typing in Jordan Archer doesn't fill me with much confidence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-8oxiI0q-k

 

 

Looked at his stats, no goals

[CoF]

26 minutes ago, parko66 said:

First video on Youtube after typing in Jordan Archer doesn't fill me with much confidence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-8oxiI0q-k

 

 

Outstanding. 

[grizzlyg]

I suppose its competition but did we really need a goalie? Surely we could have a youth as back up and if we then had another injury we could have then got an emergency loan.  

[ropy]

8 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I suppose its competition but did we really need a goalie? Surely we could have a youth as back up and if we then had another injury we could have then got an emergency loan.  

Name a youth goalie at the club

[weeyin]

8 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I suppose its competition but did we really need a goalie? Surely we could have a youth as back up and if we then had another injury we could have then got an emergency loan.  

In the current environment I think we're trying to keep as many youngsters as possible actually playing rather than sitting on the bench. If this turns out to be another long term injury for Carson it makes sense to have an experienced back up.

(and that's assuming we can recall any keeper that is currently out on loan).

[grizzlyg]

48 minutes ago, ropy said:

Name a youth goalie at the club

Admittedly Ropy I can't but we must have someone surely.  Like I said I am not overly bothered about signing a keeper as it gives a bit of competition but at same time you hear club saying we have no budget left for players yet have signed crawford Chapman and archer. 3 signings that make me hungry and thirsty as it reminds me of biscuits pies and peach schnapps!! Lol....COYW 

[grizzlyg]

 And I know Crawford is on loan but we will still be paying his wages I presume

[mfc]

Giving our luck with injuries lately,signing a goalie was a must for me,shame we have had to spend money on another but needs must.

[Kmcalpin]

56 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Admittedly Ropy I can't but we must have someone surely. 

I don't think we do. If we do have other keepers on the books they won't be match fit nor will they be older than about 16 but there are others who know the youth set up better than me, who are better placed to answer your question.

[weeyin]

21 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I don't think we do. If we do have other keepers on the books they won't be match fit nor will they be older than about 16 but there are others who know the youth set up better than me, who are better placed to answer your question.

Our official website has the 4 keepers (2 fit, 2 injured) listed in the first team squad, zero keepers in the reserve squad and PJ Morrison/Matthew Connelly listed as On Loan.

I'm not even sure if we have anyone younger that is eligible to play in the senior squad.