2022/23 ins & outs discussion

[Onthefringes]

3 hours ago, wellfan said:

Offload Shields, who is on a no doubt decent 3-year contract, to fund a deal for Penney? He has certainly demonstrated a greater attacking threat than Shields. 

Not taking this post in isolation, but, maybe best understanding how player transfers work?

[thewelllfan]

The 1 or 2 in the door needs to become 5-6 We need a St as its clear KVV needs competition and Moult is made of glass. Need 2 wingers in asap now efford is out a Cm with a bit of experience in midfield would be nice. Penneys loan extended/Permenant a must. And another Cb wouldn't go a miss. If we could flog Morris that would be great as he is utterly woeful and Shields wouldnt be too far behind after recent performances.

[wellfan]

20 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Not taking this post in isolation, but, maybe best understanding how player transfers work?

Fully understand, and suggest aboard a rocket into the moon.

[Onthefringes]

15 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Fully understand, and suggest aboard a rocket into the moon.

That’ll sort out our teams ills that you mention?

[fizoxy]

Players signing PCAs and engineering a way to get the move in January, or just leaving for better money = bad, horrible, evil, Judas

Clubs tearing up contracts and offloading players fans don't like = good, getting rid of the deadwood

Players letting clubs renege on contracts and not getting the money they're legally due = fantasy land

When players are "let go" during a contract, it invariably means they were paid to go, and I sincerely doubt that anyone in their right mind leaves money on the table, especially in a short career like football.

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, fizoxy said:

Players signing PCAs and engineering a way to get the move in January, or just leaving for better money = bad, horrible, evil, Judas

Clubs tearing up contracts and offloading players fans don't like = good, getting rid of the deadwood

Players letting clubs renege on contracts and not getting the money they're legally due = fantasy land

When players are "let go" during a contract, it invariably means they were paid to go, and I sincerely doubt that anyone in their right mind leaves money on the table, especially in a short career like football.

Of course this is the case, it’s a two way thing. I also find it quite strange when supporters believe you can just offload players while still under contract with no penalty. You’re not suddenly paying out less in wages simply because you have to pay them off.  Now of course if they ask to leave to join another club that’s a different matter. Maybe there is another Premiership club wanting to sign Shields on the same or better wages and he’s willing to move but I would not put money on it.

[weeyin]

1 hour ago, fizoxy said:

Players signing PCAs and engineering a way to get the move in January, or just leaving for better money = bad, horrible, evil, Judas

Clubs tearing up contracts and offloading players fans don't like = good, getting rid of the deadwood

Players letting clubs renege on contracts and not getting the money they're legally due = fantasy land

When players are "let go" during a contract, it invariably means they were paid to go, and I sincerely doubt that anyone in their right mind leaves money on the table, especially in a short career like football.

Not to mention that when we take advantage of the system to sign a player we like = creative bit of business

[wellfan]

22 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

That’ll sort out our teams ills that you mention?

It'll be a start. We simply cannot continue with the squad as full of deadwood as it currently is. There are creative ways to offload players under contract. For example, tell them they won't get another game, then (a) they go to their agent to get a move for them before they vanish into obscurity and won't get a new deal anywhere else because they're out of the shop window,  or (b) they actually learn how to not be shite and start contributing. I am certainly not suggesting we pay off the duds early, because that is stupid and not sustainable for us. GA has crippled us in that sense.

[Onthefringes]

8 minutes ago, wellfan said:

It'll be a start. We simply cannot continue with the squad as full of deadwood as it currently is. There are creative ways to offload players under contract. For example, tell them they won't get another game, then (a) they go to their agent to get a move for them before they vanish into obscurity and won't get a new deal anywhere else because they're out of the shop window,  or (b) they actually learn how to not be shite and start contributing. I am certainly not suggesting we pay off the duds early, because that is stupid and not sustainable for us. GA has crippled us in that sense.

That’s creative?

Point (a) is at odds with your ‘suggesting we pay off the duds early’ statement for starters…

[wellfan]

19 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

That’s creative?

Point (a) is at odds with your ‘suggesting we pay off the duds early’ statement for starters…

As I noted, it is one example of being 'creative'. And point (a) isn't at odds with that statement if the player opts to join another club (thus end their contract early and sign a new one elsewhere) in order to get game time. Either that, or they sit still and earn for a year and then have no one interested in them at the end of that contract because they've sat around for a year and played with only the boys team. It's in a youngish players interests to be on the park for exposure, not sitting stealing a wage at an average club for a year or so. Contracts work both ways. 

[middleeastdave]

35 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

That’s creative?

Point (a) is at odds with your ‘suggesting we pay off the duds early’ statement for starters…

If some of our contributors on this got their way Lamie would have been long gone in his early days with us!

[Well Well]

45 minutes ago, wellfan said:

As I noted, it is one example of being 'creative'. And point (a) isn't at odds with that statement if the player opts to join another club (thus end their contract early and sign a new one elsewhere) in order to get game time. Either that, or they sit still and earn for a year and then have no one interested in them at the end of that contract because they've sat around for a year and played with only the boys team. It's in a youngish players interests to be on the park for exposure, not sitting stealing a wage at an average club for a year or so. Contracts work both ways. 

Yeah because that kind of treatment of current players will really attract new players to the club. 

[Onthefringes]

4 hours ago, wellfan said:

As I noted, it is one example of being 'creative'. And point (a) isn't at odds with that statement if the player opts to join another club (thus end their contract early and sign a new one elsewhere) in order to get game time. Either that, or they sit still and earn for a year and then have no one interested in them at the end of that contract because they've sat around for a year and played with only the boys team. It's in a youngish players interests to be on the park for exposure, not sitting stealing a wage at an average club for a year or so. Contracts work both ways. 

Clueless. Contracts may work both ways - they certainly don’t in the way you describe. 

[fizoxy]

Last time I checked, banks don't let you pay your mortgage with potential and game time.

As far as signings go, how many of us would have taken most of the signings Dundee Utd made over the last year? Just shows how difficult it is to predict future performance. It also shows how important a signing a goalkeeper is. Sleep on that and you're fucked.

Hopefully we can pick up at least 3 points before the world cup, and that we can use the month off to get some of the injuries sorted. It would be nice to go into the January window not in total panic mode.

[wellfan]

57 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Clueless. Contracts may work both ways - they certainly don’t in the way you describe. 

Are you Shields’s agent?  

[Onthefringes]

Just now, wellfan said:

Are you Shields’s agent?  

No. Why would I have to be? You’ve had it explained to you further up the page yet, you still bang on about offloading as if it comes at no cost.

[wellfan]

8 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

No. Why would I have to be? You’ve had it explained to you further up the page yet, you still bang on about offloading as if it comes at no cost.

Alright. You’ve explained it to me. I’m wrong. 

[Yabba's Turd]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

Alright. You’ve explained it to me. I’m wrong. 

Of all the people that are wrong you are the wrongest.

[wellfan]

6 hours ago, Yabba's Turd said:

Of all the people that are wrong you are the wrongest.

I would suggest that writing “You’ve had it explained to you further up the page” is incredibly patronising, particularly when zero tangible evidence is presented to support that explanation. Perhaps if it was coming from an actual manager or agent then maybe not. Just because someone asserts an opinion on a forum, it doesn’t make it fact. It’s just opinions, and they’re all valid in the context of a football forum inhabited by mouth-breathing morons. 

[GazzyB]

The truth is you’re chatting absolute mince. 

[wellfan]

23 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

The truth is you’re chatting absolute mince. 

Before casting aspersions, perhaps some here would benefit from reading up on football contract law and figuring out the definition of 'mutual' in the context of my point about being creative to offload in-contract players. 

https://www.easportslaw.com/news/terminating-a-contract-between-football-club-and-a-player

https://www.easportslaw.com/news/unilateral-termination-of-a-football-players-contract

[wellsince75]

The January transfer window is always tough - unless you have lots of cash to splash and willing to pay over the odds. 

I'm hopefully we can land a few quality loan players , feels like the best option to land younger players who need game time or more experienced players who want to get themselves in the shop window.

Also believe our chances are strong in landing decent centre halves as there's plenty out there.  

[Yodo]

While at Tynecastle I wid be asking Neilson about a loan deal for GMS in January 

[sinjy]

Shields will be fine. He'll lead our attack next season in the championship. That is his level and where we are heading

[Kmcalpin]

At least today's performance proved that we need several players in January. Whether thats remotely possible or feasible, I don't know.

For starters, a commanding centre back who can organise. In midfield some pace please and an experienced old head as an anchor in front of the defence. Oh, and two strikers.