Motherwell v St Johnstone 09/12/2023

[steelman1991]

2 hours ago, smiddy said:

well SS if you were a goalie yourself then from your under 8s team you will have been told to push the ball away from goals and not to the feet of on rushing forward   that right ,? i also speak from experience

I remember a time when goalies actually caught the ball - wonder if that will ever catch back on.

[stv]

24 minutes ago, steelman1991 said:

I remember a time when goalies actually caught the ball - wonder if that will ever catch back on.

Balls are made so much differently now. They are no so easy to catch hence no one does anymore.

[well_said]

7 hours ago, stv said:

Balls are made so much differently now. They are no so easy to catch hence no one does anymore.

Goalie gloves are so much better now to enable them to catch the ball better. I suppose it makes a difference who is wearing them though.

[El Grew]

14 hours ago, dennyc said:

Butcher, Casey and Furlong included? I thought those three saved our season along with Van Veen.

But I agree the other signings were rotten.  I was saying I did not think we had the scope to sign a shitload of players in the hope that 3 or 4 worked out. 

I’ll give you Furlong and Butcher but not Casey.

Personally I think Casey has been the weakest link in the defence.

[stv]

3 hours ago, well_said said:

Goalie gloves are so much better now to enable them to catch the ball better. I suppose it makes a difference who is wearing them though.

Oh , forgot to add that spit is not as sticky as it used to be iether.

[dennyc]

4 hours ago, El Grew said:

I’ll give you Furlong and Butcher but not Casey.

Personally I think Casey has been the weakest link in the defence.

This season agreed. But he did a good job last season. His will to win lifted us on numerous occasions. But like a good few others he has disappointed this season.

[well_said]

4 hours ago, stv said:

Oh , forgot to add that spit is not as sticky as it used to be iether.

I was a bit of a goalie in my youth , and I was the rubbish bit.  Goalie gloves were not a thing then but playing on ash pitches and mould master balls were . Goalies have it easy nowadays.

[joewarkfanclub]

53 minutes ago, dennyc said:

This season agreed. But he did a good job last season. His will to win lifted us on numerous occasions. But like a good few others he has disappointed this season.

He did more than any other player to ensure we got the last 3 points we won at Hearts.

His form since then has mirrored that of the team as a whole.....

[David]

20 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

I think maybe taking captaincy off Liam might help him and allow him to concentrate on just his goalkeeping. Give captaincy to Butcher or back to SOD. Cue folk saying WTF but SOD experienced pro and not as bad as he is made out. Makes mistakes like everyone else.  I genuinely feel the players are united and behind SK but results need to improve and quickly 

Will taking the captaincy off him help him though? And more to the point, is the upside of doing that far higher than any potential downside?

Let's have a look.

Take the captaincy off Kelly - Basically, kick the guy when he's down. He's lost form just now and needs to rebuild some focus and confidence. Is stripping him of the captaincy going to assist in that? I don't think so.

Also, regardless of how we feel about him, he's seemingly well-liked and very respected in the dressing room. He goes out of his way to welcome new signings and basically does everything you'd want a captain to do. 

Will walking into the dressing room and taking the armband from him affect the rest of the squad? Could that kind of move be the very thing that quickly changes a squad that's working for each other and the manager to an unhappy squad? Is it worth the risk for Kettlewell? I'm not sure it is.

Leave the captaincy on Kelly - I get what you're saying about the likes of Butcher, but we're not seeing the whole picture. While we may look at Butcher and think "he's a defender/midfielder, he looks like a captain, and he shouts a lot. That'll do for me!" it's also worth remembering that we don't even know if he'd want to be the captain. Again, if stripping Kelly leads to a disgruntled squad, would you want to be the guy who takes over when your teammates are pissed off that their captain has basically had his baws cut off in front of everyone?

I know it's a cliche, but regardless of O'Donnell, Butcher, Casey, or whoever else people think should be captain actually having the armband, I expect them to all be captains. They don't need an armband to encourage and drive their teammates on. They can do that regardless. 

Once they cross the line onto the park they can all influence the game as captains in their own right.

19 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

The Kelly situation is a tricky one. I get the he shouldn't be dropped as captain and not good for squad but at same time if you had a striker that played 20 games and hadnt scored would you keep playing him?

What really grinds me is the booing of players.  I ain't an Oli Shaw fan but fact a few booed him when he came on yesterday just beggars belief 

It all depends. If we had a Mark Gillespie on the bench then there's definitely a discussion to be had. If we'd seen Oxborough brought in for cup games, and even the odd league game and he'd looked very good, again, a discussion to be had. 

But he hasn't. He's looked relatively poor when I've seen him, and the manager and coaching team see him every day and have never really looked like picking him.

I'm not in favour of dropping our first-choice goalkeeper and captain just to be seen to be doing something. Especially when Kelly is still winning points for us. 

Aye, he's making the odd error here and there, which is to be expected when the defence in front of him is as leaky as a council tap, but he's also saving penalties at Celtic Park, and stopping one on one shots that end in us snatching a point rather than nothing.

He's definitely not in top form, but even in middling form, Kelly is still a good keeper.

[David]

19 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

At what point do you think the player needs to be protected?

I don't think he needs to be protected. He's a 27-year-old professional goalkeeper who has represented his country and played over 230 senior games, almost 100 of them for Motherwell. 

It's on him to work his way out of this. The manager backs him. His teammates back him. 

Also, he's not playing to his usual level, but he's not been terrible. He's in the same boat as the rest of the team, he's not playing very well. He's being exposed by a terrible defence, and a non-existent midfield on occasion.

He's made some right howlers this season, but he's also saved us on numerous occasions. 

[sinjy]

Goalies are in a very difficult position. They make a mistake and it is often a goal. On Saturday Blaney got absolutely skint and fell over. The STJ player was clean through but who bailed Blaney out the goalie, Kelly.

I don't know anything about Ox but only three weeks ago at Celtic Kelly was the hero so for me stick with who you know unless the coaches see something at training.

[joewarkfanclub]

52 minutes ago, David said:

I don't think he needs to be protected. He's a 27-year-old professional goalkeeper who has represented his country and played over 230 senior games, almost 100 of them for Motherwell. 

It's on him to work his way out of this. The manager backs him. His teammates back him. 

Also, he's not playing to his usual level, but he's not been terrible. He's in the same boat as the rest of the team, he's not playing very well. He's being exposed by a terrible defence, and a non-existent midfield on occasion.

He's made some right howlers this season, but he's also saved us on numerous occasions. 

True......

[David]

On top of that, he's playing for a new contract, either with us or elsewhere. His deal is up in the summer, and in his current form, I'm not sure if he'll have a whole host of clubs vying for his signature.

[grizzlyg]

1 hour ago, David said:

Will taking the captaincy off him help him though? And more to the point, is the upside of doing that far higher than any potential downside?

Let's have a look.

Take the captaincy off Kelly - Basically, kick the guy when he's down. He's lost form just now and needs to rebuild some focus and confidence. Is stripping him of the captaincy going to assist in that? I don't think so.

Also, regardless of how we feel about him, he's seemingly well-liked and very respected in the dressing room. He goes out of his way to welcome new signings and basically does everything you'd want a captain to do. 

Will walking into the dressing room and taking the armband from him affect the rest of the squad? Could that kind of move be the very thing that quickly changes a squad that's working for each other and the manager to an unhappy squad? Is it worth the risk for Kettlewell? I'm not sure it is.

Leave the captaincy on Kelly - I get what you're saying about the likes of Butcher, but we're not seeing the whole picture. While we may look at Butcher and think "he's a defender/midfielder, he looks like a captain, and he shouts a lot. That'll do for me!" it's also worth remembering that we don't even know if he'd want to be the captain. Again, if stripping Kelly leads to a disgruntled squad, would you want to be the guy who takes over when your teammates are pissed off that their captain has basically had his baws cut off in front of everyone?

I know it's a cliche, but regardless of O'Donnell, Butcher, Casey, or whoever else people think should be captain actually having the armband, I expect them to all be captains. They don't need an armband to encourage and drive their teammates on. They can do that regardless. 

Once they cross the line onto the park they can all influence the game as captains in their own right.

It all depends. If we had a Mark Gillespie on the bench then there's definitely a discussion to be had. If we'd seen Oxborough brought in for cup games, and even the odd league game and he'd looked very good, again, a discussion to be had. 

But he hasn't. He's looked relatively poor when I've seen him, and the manager and coaching team see him every day and have never really looked like picking him.

I'm not in favour of dropping our first-choice goalkeeper and captain just to be seen to be doing something. Especially when Kelly is still winning points for us. 

Aye, he's making the odd error here and there, which is to be expected when the defence in front of him is as leaky as a council tap, but he's also saving penalties at Celtic Park, and stopping one on one shots that end in us snatching a point rather than nothing.

He's definitely not in top form, but even in middling form, Kelly is still a good keeper.

I certainly am not into kicking the guy when he's down and actually mentioned on Saturday the crucial save he had at 0-1.

I am sure he is a nice guy and well liked.  I also said a while back if not for him we would already be in the championship as he saved us after Aaron Chapman!!.  Jeez remember him.

I hope Kelly gets his confidence back and I want him to succeed.  Hopefully will bounce back on Saturday but I fear every cross ball etc etc he is a bag of nerves

[SteelmaninOZ]

6 hours ago, well_said said:

I was a bit of a goalie in my youth , and I was the rubbish bit.  Goalie gloves were not a thing then but playing on ash pitches and mould master balls were . Goalies have it easy nowadays.

They certainly do and no nail brush and Dettol 

[SteelmaninOZ]

Our media team chose the wrong title for this clip.

[wellsince75]

9 hours ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

Our media team chose the wrong title for this clip.

must be what's on their minds though. 

[wellfan]

9 hours ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

Our media team chose the wrong title for this clip.

Freudian slip. 

[Kmcalpin]

Oh dear  not what was intended presumably!

[smiddy]

21 hours ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

They certainly do and no nail brush and Dettol 

then rolling over during the night and leaving half your thigh sticking to the bed sheet, then sticking to your school trousers next day fecking hated them parks   i swear beetween the "ashy"  in north mwell and the calder park they nearly took me to the bone

[grizzlyg]

31 minutes ago, smiddy said:

then rolling over during the night and leaving half your thigh sticking to the bed sheet, then sticking to your school trousers next day fecking hated them parks   i swear beetween the "ashy"  in north mwell and the calder park they nearly took me to the bone

In Hamilton growing up we even had a black ash pitch!!. Brings back nightmares thinking about those pitches 

[smiddy]

9 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

In Hamilton growing up we even had a black ash pitch!!. Brings back nightmares thinking about those pitches 

yip 1 at hillhouse and another one down the lane at hunthill rd blantyre oh and also the red ash one in the scheme the doon inn played on   feckin plenty of them its just remembering the oh n another 2 in mwell where asda is now feckin watsonville where glencairn and OLHS played   a could greet thinking bout them

[Happy Dosser]

10 hours ago, smiddy said:

yip 1 at hillhouse and another one down the lane at hunthill rd blantyre oh and also the red ash one in the scheme the doon inn played on   feckin plenty of them its just remembering the oh n another 2 in mwell where asda is now feckin watsonville where glencairn and OLHS played   a could greet thinking bout them

To add to those joys I would mention a grit-encrusted Mouldmaster ball blasted at your face or thigh on a sub-zero July day in EK.

 

[SteelmaninOZ]

1 hour ago, Happy Dosser said:

To add to those joys I would mention a grit-encrusted Mouldmaster ball blasted at your face or thigh on a sub-zero July day in EK.

 

Go on you loved it 🤭

[Happy Dosser]

1 hour ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

Go on you loved it 🤭

Loved that Dettol zzzzzzzzzing! I see Kirktonholme park actually has grass on the pitches now.