2024/25 Ins & Outs Discussion

[wellfan]

I see Kettlewell has more or less admitted that the club didn’t do its due diligence in signing the Aussie boys, which means we’re now basically paying to nurse a couple of crocks for a while.

Here was me thinking we learned the lesson of the Danzaki debacle, but clearly not. It seems to be that the majority of the A-League guys available to us don’t seem to be up to it for our league when they arrive. Time will tell on these two, but it’s been an expensive few mistakes so far. 

[steelman1991]

3 hours ago, wellfan said:

I see Kettlewell has more or less admitted that the club didn’t do its due diligence in signing the Aussie boys, which means we’re now basically paying to nurse a couple of crocks for a while.

Here was me thinking we learned the lesson of the Danzaki debacle, but clearly not. It seems to be that the majority of the A-League guys available to us don’t seem to be up to it for our league when they arrive. Time will tell on these two, but it’s been an expensive few mistakes so far. 

Link?

EDIT - It's OK I see he addresses it in his recent interview.

[joewarkfanclub]

4 hours ago, wellfan said:

I see Kettlewell has more or less admitted that the club didn’t do its due diligence in signing the Aussie boys, which means we’re now basically paying to nurse a couple of crocks for a while.

Here was me thinking we learned the lesson of the Danzaki debacle, but clearly not. It seems to be that the majority of the A-League guys available to us don’t seem to be up to it for our league when they arrive. Time will tell on these two, but it’s been an expensive few mistakes so far. 

It depends what you mean by due diligence.

I presume you mean his acknowledgement that Aussie teams have much longer pre seasons because they play a lot less games and have more time off?

Obviously, Im no Sports Scientist, but it would never have occurred to me that our pre season training would increase the risk of injury to someone from a different league.

I presume it would have been put to our sports scientists / fitness coaches and they havent flagged it up, so Im not sure its something that can be pegged on Kettlewell by himself.

As for comparisons with Danzaki, didnt he turn out to be just not very good at football?

[wellfan]

2 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

so Im not sure its something that can be pegged on Kettlewell by himself.

I said above that the club didn’t do its due diligence, so I wasn’t solely pinning it on Kettlewell. 

[steelboy]

Looking at what we have signed this has to be the worst window we've ever had. 17 players and only Liam Gordon looks decent. 

[well_said]

4 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

It depends what you mean by due diligence.

I presume you mean his acknowledgement that Aussie teams have much longer pre seasons because they play a lot less games and have more time off?

Obviously, Im no Sports Scientist, but it would never have occurred to me that our pre season training would increase the risk of injury to someone from a different league.

I presume it would have been put to our sports scientists / fitness coaches and they havent flagged it up, so Im not sure its something that can be pegged on Kettlewell by himself.

As for comparisons with Danzaki, didnt he turn out to be just not very good at football?

We don't really know how good the two Aussies are yet.

[joewarkfanclub]

3 minutes ago, well_said said:

We don't really know how good the two Aussies are yet.

Certainly no idea about Koutroumbis.

But based on his highlights reel and his 45 mins against Rangers Stama looks to have something about him.

Different debate though.

[stv]

4 hours ago, wellgirl said:

He mentioned due diligence in his interview. I certainly didn't take that to mean he hadn't done any - just that the football is very different over here than it is there. 

Injuries are the same tho

[dennyc]

20 hours ago, steelboy said:

Looking at what we have signed this has to be the worst window we've ever had. 17 players and only Liam Gordon looks decent. 

So predictable. Yet another dig at Kettlewell. After we had won three in a row all you could talk about was the bad run we had LAST season. 

What did you think of Vale and Tavares yesterday? How about the impact Maswanhise had in previous games? Even Halliday is now earning his keep. Just to pick four you have written off because your favourite manager brought them in. Sure there has been a couple of questionable signings but 16 out of 17 failures! Utter nonsense. 

[steelboy]

1 hour ago, dennyc said:

So predictable. Yet another dig at Kettlewell. After we had won three in a row all you could talk about was the bad run we had LAST season. 

What did you think of Vale and Tavares yesterday? How about the impact Maswanhise had in previous games? Even Halliday is now earning his keep. Just to pick four you have written off because your favourite manager brought them in. Sure there has been a couple of questionable signings but 16 out of 17 failures! Utter nonsense. 

Maswanhise has struggled apart from versus 10 men against Killie. Tavares looked lively but similar to when I've seen him for Hibs his end product was very poor. Vale worked hard but no quality as usual. Halliday is getting bossed by the oppsition every single week. 

Our attacking play is still very poor as it was for most of last season. Attempting to attack through SOD is going exactly as well as it in each of the past two seasons. 

[dennyc]

33 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Maswanhise has struggled apart from versus 10 men against Killie. Tavares looked lively but similar to when I've seen him for Hibs his end product was very poor. Vale worked hard but no quality as usual. Halliday is getting bossed by the oppsition every single week. 

Our attacking play is still very poor as it was for most of last season. Attempting to attack through SOD is going exactly as well as it in each of the past two seasons. 

Given the ovation the team, including every one of those players you mention, received at the end of yesterday's game you appear to be in the minority. You must have been spitting feathers if your stream picked that up, or the Bois chanting SOD's name at one point.

Ask anyone who was there yesterday whether Vale showed quality. I guess he must have done though, given the calls for Kettlewell to start him against United. And his introduction helped Miller. But none so blind as those that refuse to see.

 

[robsterwood]

The outlay Aberdeen paid for Gueye looks to be bargain now. Approx 500k 6ft pace composure. We paid similar for Stama, yet to see how it works. The Aberdeen deal and Bair free shows there are bargains out there.

[joewarkfanclub]

7 hours ago, steelboy said:

Our attacking play is still very poor as it was for most of last season. 

We were the 3rd top scorers in the league last season after Celtic and Rangers........

🙄🙄🙄

[Spiderpig]

12 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

We were the 3rd top scorers in the league last season after Celtic and Rangers........

🙄🙄🙄

Simple facts like that don't register with Steelboy, if they don't back up his random quotes and agendas they never happened and are therefore ignored.

[stv]

13 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

We were the 3rd top scorers in the league last season after Celtic and Rangers........

🙄🙄🙄

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good old predictable moan again

[David]

18 hours ago, robsterwood said:

The outlay Aberdeen paid for Gueye looks to be bargain now. Approx 500k 6ft pace composure. We paid similar for Stama, yet to see how it works.

We paid similar for Stama? Didn't he cost us like £260k?

[Electric Blues]

2 hours ago, David said:

We paid similar for Stama? Didn't he cost us like £260k?

1 hour ago, wellgirl said:

Yes 

Is there an official source/link for this? All I can recall seeing is a mention on Transfermarkt of "a deal worth €308K", which could cover quite the multitude of sins. (€308K is ~ £260K.)

 

[StAndrew7]

2 hours ago, stv said:

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good old predictable moan again

 

16 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

We were the 3rd top scorers in the league last season after Celtic and Rangers........

🙄🙄🙄

 

15 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

Simple facts like that don't register with Steelboy, if they don't back up his random quotes and agendas they never happened and are therefore ignored.

To be fair to @steelboy here he makes a good point. 

When you look at our statistics in a bit more detail it highlights the following:

• We failed to score in 13 league matches last season, so more than a third of our games.
   
• 25% of our goals scored came from three matches; against Ross County home and away and Livi at home (14 of 56). That increases to 20 of 56 (35%) when you add in two 3-1 wins against Livi.

Yes we were third highest scorers in the league, but looking slightly deeper into that shows it was due to a handful of games, rather than it being consistent across the season which is what you want.

We were absolute dugshite going forward for long periods last year and it showed.

Of the 13 times we didn't score, we lost six of them by one goal and drew one of them. So you'd (rightly, imho) argue that consistent goal scoring to the same level over the entire season would have seen a far better league position for us.

[weeyin]

Consistent anything over the course of a season would have seen a far better league position for us, but that is the story of 6 or 7 Premiership teams every season.

The differences between 10th a 6th are often very fine margins. Whether that's converting 5% more chances, conceding 5% less goals or stringing a run of 6 or 7 games together.

The stat about the 13 times we didn't score is exactly why Kettlewell was not punted. Because the players were still obviously playing for him and each other, and we weren't showing the classic relegation form of folding after conceding early and going on to lose by a hat full every week.

[steelboy]

When you combine the games where we didn't score with the games where we only scored after emptying the bench and changing formation then it's clear that the starting formation and tactics are brutal and overly negative. 

Over 10 games this season so far the only starting 11 goals from open play are Moses against Clyde and the Rangers defender scoring an OG under no pressure. 

[joewarkfanclub]

Im as frustrated as anyone with some of SKs initial team selections, some of his tactics and certainly last season, his in game management and substitutions.

He isnt the perfect manager and he does a lot of stuff I dont agree with. But you have to look at it in the round and apply some balance and logic to any criticism offered.

Saying our attacking play was poor for most of last season when we finished 3rd top scorers in the league just dilutes any credibility to what might be a decent argument if more balance was applied.

Yes there may have been points last season when our attacking play was poor. But it evidently wasnt for most of it.

How about giving some credit to the manager for tightening up a defence that was as leaky as a seive last season and look forward to the potential of our attacking play improving when all our midfielders and forwards are available for selection again (albeit thats likely to be nearer xmas).

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

 

When you combine the games where we didn't score with the games where we only scored after emptying the bench and changing formation then it's clear that the starting formation and tactics are brutal and overly negative. 

Over 10 games this season so far the only starting 11 goals from open play are Moses against Clyde and the Rangers defender scoring an OG under no pressure. 

I take it goals from corners, penalties, free kicks, own goals and substitutes don't count then? Are we even allowed to celebrate them? Can we then also ignore any goals we concede from corners, own goals, free kicks, substitutes and penalties? Or perhaps it does not apply both ways? You do have a point regarding our style of play at times and I share your frustration with  Kettlewell's team selection at times. But the fact is we are doing ok at present and he seems to have improved our defensive set up.

I do concede that I would also like to see more goals resulting from magical sweeping moves, but playing to a strength is hardly a poor option. And until we sign a Bellingham or De Bruyne I don't see things changing that much. Especially as you have already written off Tavares, Maswanhise and all bar one of our new recruits.  I'll celebrate any goal we score no matter the source. England nearly won a World Cup playing to the same strength.

Some of the goals we scored last season were as good as you will see anywhere. Whether from open play or free kicks. And was it McGhee that used to insist that every player be in our box defending at a corner because the majority of goals teams concede come from that source?

Maybe some of those corners, penalties and free kicks we score from result from decent moves that our opponents have difficulty dealing with. Or maybe credit goes to Miller and/or Halliday for their ability to deliver the ball. And we have scored in 80% of the competitive games we have played so far this season. Fairly consistent.  But I guess that positive assessment does not fit your agenda.

But credit where credit is due. Ignoring the fact we were third top scorers last season and then dismissing goals not scored from open play to validate your argument is certainly creative.  As is pointing out that we score some goals after making substitutions. Some might say that was also a positive and a direct result of some astute management decisions.

I guess it all comes down to the argument you choose to promote.

[robsterwood]

9 hours ago, David said:

We paid similar for Stama? Didn't he cost us like £260k?

Think so. Hope it pays off. 

[Yabba's Turd]

The same idiot said Foran was only scoring penalties 

 

[David]

22 hours ago, robsterwood said:

Think so. Hope it pays off. 

But £260k isn't similar to £500k? It's roughly half.