pretzel Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 We have played well against them this season, at Fir Park I felt we had done more than enough to win but we had passed up a few glorious efforts before we got stung right at the death not once but twice. We defended brilliantly at Parkhead but we gave them a lifeline when it looked like they were toothless up front. It'll be interesting to see how Celtic react to Rangers going top of the table, by all accounts they haven't been playing great as of late but they have still been grinding out results. I wouldn't be surprised if it's yet another game where we are left thinking of what could have been. I'm looking forward to getting the games between the arse cheeks over with but we do have an important game against Livi sandwiched in between, that then leaves us with four fixtures before the league split. 33 points is the lowest amount that a team has managed to avoid the playoffs with, you would like to think that tally is beyond Livi but they do have a favorable run of fixtures as they play County, Well then St Johnstone. It will be interesting to see how that pans out, County also are in action next Tuesday playing their game in hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Celtic will be under even more pressure to win now that Rangers are ahead of them. That will also count against us in this game. They tend to struggle more at home this season for some reason but away they usually get the job done and Sunday will be no different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistandshout1983 Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 I think as a club we need to stop all the negativity going into these type of games . Kilmarnock as an example are like a 1990s equivalent of ourselves . For a club of relatively similar resources , fanbase etc they go into these games against both Glasgow mobs believing they can get something I do think in recent seasons we tend to play better away from home in these games but at Fir Park there is a feeling of we are beat when the first goal goes in No better time to change it than this weekend 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterwood Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Has mwell got pay per view? I don't take my kids to ugly sisters games due to sectarian bile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 7 minutes ago, robsterwood said: Has mwell got pay per view? I don't take my kids to ugly sisters games due to sectarian bile. It's on $ky $port$ at noon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 17 minutes ago, wellfan said: It's on $ky $port$ at noon. For me it’s 6am on Motherwell TV. I hate it when they schedule Sunday noon games against the ugly sisters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 59 minutes ago, robsterwood said: Has mwell got pay per view? I don't take my kids to ugly sisters games due to sectarian bile. Well you need to let go of your sectarian bile , turn up n support the team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 If we're honest, this game will depend on the same factor as every other game against this lot in recent times. How they play. We could be at our absolute best, but if Celtic are in the mood and at the races, there's not much we can really do. The gap in quality is too much, which is something the Scottish media don't really mention much. Unless it's Celtic or Rangers playing Man City, Barcelona, or PSG. Then we hear all about the gulf in quality and financial disparity. So, if we're at our best and Celtic have an off-day we could maybe grab something from them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 5 hours ago, twistandshout1983 said: I think as a club we need to stop all the negativity going into these type of games . Kilmarnock as an example are like a 1990s equivalent of ourselves . For a club of relatively similar resources , fanbase etc they go into these games against both Glasgow mobs believing they can get something I do think in recent seasons we tend to play better away from home in these games but at Fir Park there is a feeling of we are beat when the first goal goes in No better time to change it than this weekend Our home games against them in recent years have been awful. vs Celtic our last eight home games have been 1-2, 1-2, 0-4, 0-4, 0-2, 1-4, 0-4, 2-5 and vs Rangers the last eight home games 0-2, 1-2, 1-3, 1-6, 1-1, 1-5, 0-2, 0-3 Sixteen games combined and one draw to show for it. And the support weren’t allowed inside the ground to see it. Truly depressing regardless of budgets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Kind of similar results-wise to when Celtic or Rangers play a side with a budget and quality of player that far exceeds theirs, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 44 minutes ago, MJC said: Our home games against them in recent years have been awful. vs Celtic our last eight home games have been 1-2, 1-2, 0-4, 0-4, 0-2, 1-4, 0-4, 2-5 and vs Rangers the last eight home games 0-2, 1-2, 1-3, 1-6, 1-1, 1-5, 0-2, 0-3 Sixteen games combined and one draw to show for it. And the support weren’t allowed inside the ground to see it. Truly depressing regardless of budgets. So celtic have beaten us by one goal on the last two home games then? And couldnt beat us on their own patch last time either. Glad you have cleared that up. 👍 We do have something going for us..... you noted we were up against a different Hearts team at the weekend compared with the one we beat earlier in the season. This one full of confidence. I assume we are therefore up against a different celtic team compared to the one that was cantering clear at the summit of the table..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyMax Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Now that the press have gone into overdrive with their 'Celtic in Crisis' narrative, you just know that they'll come out at 110 MPH on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 27 minutes ago, Big Stall said: So celtic have beaten us by one goal on the last two home games then? And couldnt beat us on their own patch last time either. Glad you have cleared that up. 👍 We do have something going for us..... you noted we were up against a different Hearts team at the weekend compared with the one we beat earlier in the season. This one full of confidence. I assume we are therefore up against a different celtic team compared to the one that was cantering clear at the summit of the table..... No, because Celtic have significantly more quality than we do regardless of whether they aren’t firing on all cylinders and regardless of how they play against us this coming Sunday, we just don’t have the bottle, the belief or the mentality to get anything out of it. And one goal or four goals, it doesn’t matter. We still lost those games. 15 minutes ago, AllyMax said: Now that the press have gone into overdrive with their 'Celtic in Crisis' narrative, you just know that they'll come out at 110 MPH on Sunday. And this will also count against us because Celtic and Rodgers are going to be hounded in the press this week so they’ll have a point to prove on Sunday. I think we’ll see them come out like a steam train, score early and have the game done and dusted by the half hour mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 2 minutes ago, MJC said: No, because Celtic have significantly more quality than we do regardless of whether they aren’t firing on all cylinders and regardless of how they play against us this coming Sunday, we just don’t have the bottle, the belief or the mentality to get anything out of it. And one goal or four goals, it doesn’t matter. We still lost those games. And this will also count against us because Celtic and Rodgers are going to be hounded in the press this week so they’ll have a point to prove on Sunday. I think we’ll see them come out like a steam train, score early and have the game done dusted by the half hour mark. How do you suggest we change our negative mentality then if the odds are so cruelly stacked against us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 4 minutes ago, MJC said: No, because Celtic have significantly more quality than we do regardless of whether they aren’t firing on all cylinders and regardless of how they play against us this coming Sunday, we just don’t have the bottle, the belief or the mentality to get anything out of it. You think "bottle, belief and mentality" would make a real difference against what you admit is a significant gulf in quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 7 minutes ago, MJC said: No, because Celtic have significantly more quality than we do regardless of whether they aren’t firing on all cylinders and regardless of how they play against us this coming Sunday, we just don’t have the bottle, the belief or the mentality to get anything out of it. And one goal or four goals, it doesn’t matter. We still lost those games. And this will also count against us because Celtic and Rodgers are going to be hounded in the press this week so they’ll have a point to prove on Sunday. I think we’ll see them come out like a steam train, score early and have the game done and dusted by the half hour mark. So the 'logic' you use one week, isnt valid the next week. All good. 🫡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Just now, joewarkfanclub said: How do you suggest we change our negative mentality then if the odds are so cruelly stacked against us? The odds are always going to be stacked against us when we play Celtic, or Rangers. But I would suggest that we stop simply shrugging these games off beforehand and merrily accepting that they will beat us and that there is nothing we can do about it because “we’re only a wee team and we’re punching waaaaay” above our weight. As has been said above, for us to get anything out of these games the first thing we need is for them to not play to their full strength. But even then we need to believe that we can take advantage of them being out of sorts and for far too long now we fall short in that regard. The September game at FP against Celtic was the prime example. They were well below par but we showed nothing in the way of belief, they score late on, we equalise in stoppage time and still contrive to lose the game. And afterwards we get Motherwell fans trying to console themselves that we were “unlucky”. We need to stop playing the name and start playing the actual team in front of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 6 minutes ago, David said: You think "bottle, belief and mentality" would make a real difference against what you admit is a significant gulf in quality? Not necessarily, but it could certainly help. 3 minutes ago, Big Stall said: So the 'logic' you use one week, isnt valid the next week. All good. 🫡 It’s not even close to being the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 13 minutes ago, MJC said: The odds are always going to be stacked against us when we play Celtic, or Rangers. But I would suggest that we stop simply shrugging these games off beforehand and merrily accepting that they will beat us and that there is nothing we can do about it If you believe they have too much quality for us, regardless of how they're playing, sounds like you're accepting they will beat us - albeit, not merrily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 16 minutes ago, MJC said: Not necessarily, but it could certainly help. It’s not even close to being the same thing. Hearts were not as good early in the season as they are now so we will ger beat...... Celtic are worse now than earlier in the season when we drew with them at their own place so we will get beat. Clear as day 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 4 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: If you believe they have too much quality for us, regardless of how they're playing, sounds like you're accepting they will beat us - albeit, not merrily. Celtic and Rangers will win the vast majority of games against us because they have too much quality. That is a fact. That fact also applies to every other non OF side. However we’ve seen Kilmarnock beating Rangers once and Celtic twice this season. We saw St.Mirren beating Celtic last season and St.Johnstone beating Rangers in the same campaign. Livingston beat Celtic a few years back, Dundee Utd beat Rangers. Ross County knocked Celtic out of the League Cup in 20/21 and St.Johnstone did the same to Rangers in the same season. My point being that while other sides of similar stature to ourselves are able to take advantage of that time when they play one of the OF and they aren’t at their best, we’re never able to do the same. And please don’t anyone try and raise me “but we beat Celtic with Jamie Dolan in goal almost 30 years ago” or “have you forgotten us beating Rangers on Boxing Day when we were in admin and they were top of the league” because our record against both of them in the last 10-15 and more years speaks for itself and it doesn’t look good for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 6 minutes ago, Big Stall said: Hearts were not as good early in the season as they are now so we will ger beat...... Celtic are worse now than earlier in the season when we drew with them at their own place so we will get beat. Clear as day 🤣 The gap in quality between us and Celtic is significantly bigger than the one between us and Hearts. And we aren’t as cowed by Hearts as we are by Celtic. Its pretty clear to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 24 minutes ago, MJC said: As has been said above, for us to get anything out of these games the first thing we need is for them to not play to their full strength. But even then we need to believe that we can take advantage of them being out of sorts and for far too long now we fall short in that regard. I don't think belief is the problem. In the past ten games against Celtic, we've conceded more than three goals only three times, with six of the ten games either finishing a draw, or a win for Celtic by a single goal deficit. So no, it's not about belief. We don't tend to crumble against them. 28 minutes ago, MJC said: The September game at FP against Celtic was the prime example. They were well below par but we showed nothing in the way of belief, they score late on, we equalise in stoppage time and still contrive to lose the game. And afterwards we get Motherwell fans trying to console themselves that we were “unlucky”. We were unlucky. When a team with less quality plays against a team with more quality, what usually happens is the higher-quality side sees more of the ball. The other side spends most of its time defending and chasing the ball, which is incredibly tiring. That's why you find both Celtic and Rangers scoring a fair amount of goals late on in games. They tend to be able to strike when the opposition is mentally and physically drained from competing with a better side for almost 90 minutes. That happens to any side in that position, by the way. It's not specific to us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 7 minutes ago, MJC said: My point being that while other sides of similar stature to ourselves are able to take advantage of that time when they play one of the OF and they aren’t at their best, we’re never able to do the same. And please don’t anyone try and raise me “but we beat Celtic with Jamie Dolan in goal almost 30 years ago” or “have you forgotten us beating Rangers on Boxing Day when we were in admin and they were top of the league” because our record against both of them in the last 10-15 and more years speaks for itself and it doesn’t look good for us. I could mention the League Cup semi in 2017, but no doubt there would be a reason why that doesn't count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Just now, bobbybingo said: I could mention the League Cup semi in 2017, but no doubt there would be a reason why that doesn't count. Well firstly that was six and a half years ago now, and we haven’t managed to record a win against either of the OF since then. And secondly, having Robinson as manager who had only just recently taken over was a factor IMO, because he was at that time an ‘outsider’ to us, Scottish football and our place in the game. Pretty much the same as Baraclough in the 2015 playoffs. Of course both of those results count, but they were a long time ago and few and far between and, crucially imo, we had managers who hadn’t been with us long and weren’t with us long enough to buy into the “we’re punching above our weight” mentality by the time those games came around. Put it this way, Mark McGhee or Stuart McCall would not have overseen wins in those games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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