Seasons end poll

[wunderwell]

On 5/20/2024 at 6:52 AM, Mccus28 said:

I was surprised to know that some people seemed to take offense to my suggestion that the majority of our fans wouldn't be satisfied with a 9th place finish and poor cup runs so thought a poll was in order to get the overall opinion rather than infighting

Will be interesting to see the result

I think from this poll - as it was me that was arguing the point with you - that we both take something away.
Yes you are correct it was a majority.
Was much more in line with the 50/50 I was talking about in terms of a split.
I think if there was a middle option it would have won comfortably. But it was more challenging to pick yes or no.
Well done on the poll - what's next?!

[Throughthelaces]

I voted no as i felt we weren’t good enough for large parts of the season and that ultimately cost us a place in the top 6 we didn’t even finish 7th which is my absolute minimum for a decent season. Our cup performances were shocking. We did have some real good moments in the season and I enjoyed them and will look back on those fondly, but we failed to capitalise I thought after we beat Livi and Rangers and played really well that week we’d turned a corner and would charge up the league but then we ran out of steam.

[Mccus28]

5 hours ago, wunderwell said:

I think from this poll - as it was me that was arguing the point with you - that we both take something away.
Yes you are correct it was a majority.
Was much more in line with the 50/50 I was talking about in terms of a split.
I think if there was a middle option it would have won comfortably. But it was more challenging to pick yes or no.
Well done on the poll - what's next?!

Yeah, quite interesting to see everyones opinion

Good debates are what its all about

[StirlingDosser]

I don't think finishing 9th is satisfactory however it reflects the ongoing slump we are in as a club which has been underway for a few seasons. We are loosing our competitiveness in the league I feel. 

As for Kettlewell, he seems like a genuine guy and a good coach. I'm not in the bin him camp however I don't believe we should renew his contract beyond next season right enough as I can't see us making progress with him at the helm beyond what we are currently achieving. I don't think the product on the park has been great for much of his tenure either. 

The ethos at the minute that the clubs aim every season is purely to avoid relegation is unacceptable. That isn't being unrealistic, it's a game and a competition. The whole point is to compete and aim up the way. To publicly have the mindset that all we have to do every year is avoid relegation cannot be good for mindsets and sets a bar of mediocrity. If the clubs core aim every year is simply to avoid relegation what's the point? 

[weeyin]

6 hours ago, StirlingDosser said:

If the clubs core aim every year is simply to avoid relegation what's the point? 

That's not the club's aim, though. You just need to listen to SK talk for 20 minutes to know that. It's all about improvement for him and building a competitive team that is finishing top 6. 

There are 4 or 5 teams every season that are very closely matched and it's small margins that make the difference between 5th and 9th. 

As I mentioned earlier since the SPL was formed we have finished 8th more often than any other position. The seasons where we finished 2nd and 3rd were very much the (hugely enjoyable) exceptions. 

It wasn't that long ago that we finished 3rd though, albeit in a Covid season. 

Dumbarton, Dunfermline, Falkirk, Raith Rovers, Accies, Caley Thistle, Partick Thistle and Morton all used to be top flight regulars and relegation hasn't been kind to them. Even worse for Clydebank, Gretna and the original Airdrie who also spent time in the SPL. 

Our rivals over the years like St Mirren, Hibs, Hearts, Killie, Dundee, Dundee Utd etc. have all been relegated and in some case spent a number of seasons in the lower leagues. So it's not a bad goal to ensure safety as quickly as possible - that is very different, however, from avoiding relegation as being our only goal and the benchmark of success. 

[Spiderpig]

18 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Yeah absolutely. Avoiding the drop is essential because the Championship isn't easy to get out of once a team is in it. Look at Accies since they got relegated. 

Most of the longer term premiership clubs ie from about position 5 downwards would romp the championship as did Dundee untd this year. The gulf in class between the premiership and the championship is much bigger than people realise, keep your eye on Livingston lf they keep the majority of the current squad then I expect them to be championship title challengers.

 

[wellfan]

6 hours ago, weeyin said:

It's all about improvement for him and building a competitive team that is finishing top 6. 

If seeking to retain the majority of a defence that's only kept three clean sheets all season is his idea of improvement, we’re doomed.  

[dennyc]

44 minutes ago, wellfan said:

If seeking to retain the majority of a defence that's only kept three clean sheets all season is his idea of improvement, we’re doomed.  

Not just the majority. Every one of them. 100%!  Either already under contract, offered terms or requested back on loan. Add in retained youngsters (Ross and Wilson) and that would not have left much, if any, room for additions.

I don't think that every one of them needed to go, but because of contracts expiring we had the chance to make wholesale changes to a poorly performing area of the team and at the same time ending up with a bloated squad and a massively increased wage bill. Not so sure that will be possible now. 

[dennyc]

41 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

To be fair if they are under contract there's very little the club can do. Plus Kelly and Butcher are away. Casey and Blaney are the ones still under contract? 

If every one of the out of contract players had accepted new terms, we could have ended up with exactly the same defence we completed the season with. Possibly except for Gent who many considered the best and most dynamic of the lot. Fortunately a couple have rejected terms as you say so that will not happen, But the concerning message is that the club, with or without SK's approval,  were prepared to run 100% with a group of players that regularly underperformed as a unit.

No offence, but would you have been comfortable starting the season with, Kelly, SOD, McGinn, Mugabi, Butcher, Casey, Gent (maybe) Blaney as first choices with Wilson, Ross,  Oxborough as back ups? Our Board and Manager apparently were. We got away with it this season. Not so sure we would have next season given the senior players would all be a year older. At least now with Kelly and Butcher moving on there is some scope for change. But not as much scope as there should have been. All about opinions though.

[dennyc]

Fair do's they won't be a year older compared to season end. I stand corrected. Apologies.

They will be a year older than they were when last season started, and so on throughout the season. Not so relevant regards youngsters but a factor to be considered with senior players as games mount up. Especially if we have two good cup runs......I live in hope. 

I agree with your views re Gent, SOD, Mugabi and Kelly. With only limited viewing admittedly, Wilson is the only youngster that I think is anywhere near first team ready. And he was farmed out on loan last season after the League Cup so not clear what plans they have for him. Happy he has another year.

[wellsince75]

Reflections are there's not a huge amount to be excited about. At best glad we avoided relegation. 

With a reduced budget 9th was always a likely outcome and after a horrendous run of 17 game it became a decent outcome. 

I'm struggling to see any progress as a club. When I look at the squad I don't see many young Scots coming through or many young anything coming through.   

The positives were young Miller , Gent,  Bair & Spittal.   All of whom may not be here next season. 

We like most of Scottish football are regressing, sadly I think we're regressing quicker than many.  I'm sick of signing journeyman from lower reaches of England and equally fed up listening about the lack of funds, offering the same duds new contracts.  

The glimmer of hope is new investment, new CEO etc may kick us up the backside and move us forward. 

[Kmcalpin]

4 hours ago, wellsince75 said:

Reflections are there's not a huge amount to be excited about. At best glad we avoided relegation. 

With a reduced budget 9th was always a likely outcome and after a horrendous run of 17 game it became a decent outcome. 

I'm struggling to see any progress as a club. When I look at the squad I don't see many young Scots coming through or many young anything coming through.   

The positives were young Miller , Gent,  Bair & Spittal.   All of whom may not be here next season. 

We like most of Scottish football are regressing, sadly I think we're regressing quicker than many.  I'm sick of signing journeyman from lower reaches of England and equally fed up listening about the lack of funds, offering the same duds new contracts.  

The glimmer of hope is new investment, new CEO etc may kick us up the backside and move us forward. 

I view last season as a transitional one. One in which SK settled in and began to implement his own changes, after a spell of considerable managerial upheaval. Given this context finishing 9th was acceptable. Our cup runs were another matter. This summer will be huge for SK and us. He has been given a blank canvas should he want it, but he has to make the right signings. I've no doubt we'll pick up some decent players and yes, some duds too. Should our summer acquisitions be unsuccessful, our cup runs poor again, and we fail to improve on 9th place in the league, then yes, questions will rightly be aksed.