wellfan Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 After the Wimmer debacle, I doubt the Board will take a chance on another unfamiliar foreigner who doesn’t live in Scotland. It may now seem a bit too risky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 19 minutes ago, wellfan said: After the Wimmer debacle, I doubt the Board will take a chance on another unfamiliar foreigner who doesn’t live in Scotland. It may now seem a bit too risky. The Wimmer situation was simply a case of bad luck. These things happen. What’s baffling is that some people still view overseas managers as though they’re strangers from another world, like we’re stuck in the late nineties. Football is more international now than it’s ever been. We should be focused on finding the right person for the role, regardless of where they come from. Their nationality shouldn’t matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsince75 Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 10 minutes ago, David said: The Wimmer situation was simply a case of bad luck. These things happen. What’s baffling is that some people still view overseas managers as though they’re strangers from another world, like we’re stuck in the late nineties. Football is more international now than it’s ever been. We should be focused on finding the right person for the role, regardless of where they come from. Their nationality shouldn’t matter. A man with a young family living in a different country from said family isn’t purely bad luck . there was a level of risk - had the family been moving over etc etc then fine but to expect that to work and all be hunky dory isn’t just bad luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 6 minutes ago, wellsince75 said: A man with a young family living in a different country from said family isn’t purely bad luck . there was a level of risk - had the family been moving over etc etc then fine but to expect that to work and all be hunky dory isn’t just bad luck It is back luck, however, when you do your due diligence with the candidate, explore their domestic situation and get their buy-in to the needs of the job before they sign the contract. In the footballing world, it's not unusual for managers to live apart from their families. Even Robinson used to fly back to Northern Ireland most weekends after the match and McGhee used to trek back to Brighton on a regular basis (which probably took longer than flying to Germany). It's not risk free bringing in someone from overseas, but neither is hiring someone from the south of England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 9 minutes ago, wellsince75 said: A man with a young family living in a different country from said family isn’t purely bad luck . there was a level of risk - had the family been moving over etc etc then fine but to expect that to work and all be hunky dory isn’t just bad luck I know a few things have been floated out there, but I don't believe that Wimmer left because he missed his family. There was more to it than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 17 minutes ago, David said: The Wimmer situation was simply a case of bad luck. These things happen. What’s baffling is that some people still view overseas managers as though they’re strangers from another world, like we’re stuck in the late nineties. Football is more international now than it’s ever been. We should be focused on finding the right person for the role, regardless of where they come from. Their nationality shouldn’t matter. That’s not what I said or implied, so don’t mischaracterise my point. My point was simply that the Board may now see it as too risky to appoint someone who doesn’t live in Scotland. The issue wasn’t that Wimmer was an unfamiliar foreigner, but rather that he wasn’t based in Scotland, which made it challenging for him to manage both the job and his personal life when issues arose back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 Just now, wellfan said: That’s not what I said or implied, so don’t mischaracterise my point. My point was simply that the Board may now see it as too risky to appoint someone who doesn’t live in Scotland. The issue wasn’t that Wimmer was an unfamiliar foreigner, but rather that he wasn’t based in Scotland, which made it challenging for him to manage both the job and his personal life when issues arose back home. So, going by your reckoning, and as weeyin says above, a new manager who we recruit from the south of England would fall into the "unfamiliar foreigner" category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 2 hours ago, wellon said: Ach if it's neilson , give him a chance, don't want to do it without you . I suspect Ive been wooshed here, but here goes...... Obviously I will give him a chance, as I would with any new manager. Just some are more exciting than others. Doesnt necessarily mean they wont be any good. Neilson knows the league and has experience at our level. Would probably keep us up. But his pressers would be boring as feck and his team would in all liklihood end up the same. Brown may not be everyones cup of tea but he is a winner and wouldnt just give the usual stock answers to questions Could be a bumpier ride with him but it would undoubtedly be more fun. Still hope we go for Wimmer MK2 though. The thought process was correct even if it didnt work out as planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 6 minutes ago, David said: I know a few things have been floated out there, but I don't believe that Wimmer left because he missed his family. There was more to it than that. It was written elsewhere...whether accurate or not...that Wimmer returned to Germany due to a serious illness in his family. There were more details given but it is a private matter so I am not going to expand further. Regards where an employee lives, there are numerous examples of Clubs insisting that players and Staff live within a reasonable distance of the home ground. What is 'reasonable' can likely be negotiated. It might restrict who would be interested in the job but having been bitten once, perhaps we should consider that stipulation. Even if it does add to the cost to the Club by way of resettlement expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 2 minutes ago, dennyc said: It was written elsewhere...whether accurate or not...that Wimmer returned to Germany due to a serious illness in his family. This is what I heard also, although not in any official capacity. And as you say, that is a private matter. What I am confident of is that it wasn't a case of him arriving at Motherwell and deciding he missed his family. He knew exactly what would be required, in the short-term at least, when it came to that side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, David said: So, going by your reckoning, and as weeyin says above, a new manager who we recruit from the south of England would fall into the "unfamiliar foreigner" category. If you want to keep misrepresenting my point, that’s your choice. But anyone reading what I actually said will see it for what it is. To clarify once more: my view is that the Board might see appointing someone who currently lives in the south of England - or anywhere far away - as a risk. That concern has nothing to do with ethnicity or country of birth. My reference to Wimmer as an unfamiliar foreigner was specifically in the context of him also not living in Scotland. And that’s exactly what he was to me. He was someone unfamiliar who lives far away in Germany. For what it’s worth, I’d be happy with another unfamiliar foreigner, a Scotsman, or anyone else. My only preference is that they live relatively nearby. We don’t want a repeat of Wimmer. It’s obvious that you’re trying to misrepresent my original post above as xenophobic, and I’m not having it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 We shouldn't abandon our process because of one unfortunate issue. We aren't the first club to hire a manager from another country in our division, never mind the prevalence of foreign managers across all the leagues in Europe. I don't know how many of those left after 12 weeks because of a family issue, so it's not fair to assume that any manager from outside of the central belt is a flight risk for that reason. There's nothing to say thar out process won't lead us to a Scottish manager, but I don't think we should tear things up off the back of one incident. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 15 minutes ago, wellfan said: It’s obvious that you’re trying to misrepresent my original post above as xenophobic, and I’m not having it. Not at all. My point is that we need to move with the times. Look at the other leagues in Europe. They see foreign coaches all the time, it's commonplace. But in Scotland, we still look at a foreign coach as something exotic and risky, when in truth, it's not any more risky than appointing someone like Pressley or Neilson. I was more questioning your logic behind the notion that a less-than-stellar experience with Wimmer would represent a need to return to the status quo. I don't agree with that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 4 hours ago, wellon said: Ach if it's neilson , give him a chance, don't want to do it without you . Pah, Nilsson Schmilsson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 17 minutes ago, David said: Not at all. My point is that we need to move with the times. Look at the other leagues in Europe. They see foreign coaches all the time, it's commonplace. But in Scotland, we still look at a foreign coach as something exotic and risky, when in truth, it's not any more risky than appointing someone like Pressley or Neilson. I was more questioning your logic behind the notion that a less-than-stellar experience with Wimmer would represent a need to return to the status quo. I don't agree with that at all. Okay, fair enough. My point remains that it would be negligent for the Board not to consider the risks of appointing someone in similar circumstances to Wimmer. Whether the potential benefits of such an appointment outweigh the known risks - or whether someone closer to home offers more overall value than another Wimmer - is ultimately for the Board to decide. But if it goes wrong again, the shit will be on their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 2 hours ago, David said: I know a few things have been floated out there, but I don't believe that Wimmer left because he missed his family. There was more to it than that. Let's be totally frank about this. He left for a better job/pay/budget. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well_said Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 49 minutes ago, grumpy said: Pah, Nilsson Schmilsson. Is he Danish or swedish🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 6 hours ago, wellon said: Ach if it's neilson , give him a chance, don't want to do it without you . Must be a contender cos......everybody's talkin about him 🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throughthelaces Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 Jose Mourinho has been spotted at upper crust........... In all seriousness see who we get if we get a foreigner who's gonna come in and try play football I'd be happy. No more of kettleball or the likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellon Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 5 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: I suspect Ive been wooshed here, but here goes...... Obviously I will give him a chance, as I would with any new manager. Just some are more exciting than others. Doesnt necessarily mean they wont be any good. Neilson knows the league and has experience at our level. Would probably keep us up. But his pressers would be boring as feck and his team would in all liklihood end up the same. Brown may not be everyones cup of tea but he is a winner and wouldnt just give the usual stock answers to questions Could be a bumpier ride with him but it would undoubtedly be more fun. Still hope we go for Wimmer MK2 though. The thought process was correct even if it didnt work out as planned. Do you not mind browns " no comment " interview after the players ousted john Collins...that was cringe as...don't think his answers would be very entertaining if we are using that as one of the yardstick. Pity john Collins isn't interested in management game any more, he had hibs going great until players didn't fancy the graft.....allegedly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellon Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 2 hours ago, grizzlyg said: Must be a contender cos......everybody's talkin about him 🤪 I didn't think there was any more mileage in this one...you've come good again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuwell2 Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 6 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: I suspect Ive been wooshed here, but here goes...... Don’t worry about it - everybody’s talkin’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuwell2 Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 2 hours ago, grizzlyg said: Must be a contender cos......everybody's talkin about him 🤪 Dam you beat me to it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 42 minutes ago, wellon said: Do you not mind browns " no comment " interview after the players ousted john Collins...that was cringe as...don't think his answers would be very entertaining if we are using that as one of the yardstick. Pity john Collins isn't interested in management game any more, he had hibs going great until players didn't fancy the graft.....allegedly Ok. I get it. You dont like Scott Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 21 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: Id rather have Scott Brown than Neilson. At least he has a bit of personality about him. I suspect it will be neither of them. Personality is all well and good, but I’d take a manager who knows how to get results any day. Neilson might not light up a press conference, but he’s shown he can win games in Scotland. A win rate of 51 percent across more than 400 matches as a manager. He guided Hearts to the Championship title twice, once in a league that included both Hibs and Rangers, and again in a season with Dundee in the mix. He also led Dundee United to the title. He’s taken a team to a Scottish Cup final and secured a third-place finish as well. If we’re judging Scottish managers purely on achievements and consistency, I’d say he’s well ahead of Brown at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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