We’re going to Europe

[mcguru]

Helsinki's official away fans' allocation for UEFA games is 509, Coleraine's is 137 if I read that right but to be fair that was without my glasses.

 

[grizzlyg]

3 minutes ago, mcguru said:

Helsinki's official away fans' allocation for UEFA games is 509, Coleraine's is 137 if I read that right but to be fair that was without my glasses.

 

If wrong change your name to magoo 🤣

[joewarkfanclub]

I think thats the minimum allocation as required by UEFA.

Hopefully the club can negotiate enough to fulfill demand.

I see the club are advertising dates TBC.

Does who beats who decide the seeding? It all seems a bit mental having the draw before tge games are played, if it doesnt benefit by way of planning & preparation.

[stv]

12 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

If wrong change your name to magoo 🤣

Which way is the Motherwell end .

[Mad Dog]

49 minutes ago, Coolhandluc said:

That’s me booked Wed to Friday in Helsinki. Flights not refundable but will  go anyway for the trip ! 

Not expecting Coleraine to get into the next round, then?

[grizzlyg]

Just a wee travel update for Thurs.  Airbles road shut at roundabout just past airbles train station to roundabout at elim for o think 5 days.  Can imagine traffic will be really busy for those driving

[numpty]

2 hours ago, mio said:

Not to fling shade onto this but I have real doubts we will get passed HB. 

As someone who normally reads absolutely zero into pre-season friendlies, I have a similar feeling. To be honest, I don't even mind if our mindset is now to use our transfer hoard to strengthen the squad over the next few weeks at the risk of being papped out of Europe early again. But I'm going into the HB tie with zero expectation of success, at this point.

[Coolhandluc]

58 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

Not expecting Coleraine to get into the next round, then?

Nah. I’ll take my chances and go to Helsinki anyway 

[weeyin]

I think we'll win the second leg against HB. What we do in the first leg is they key. 

[Spiderpig]

5 hours ago, mio said:

Not to fling shade onto this but I have real doubts we will get passed HB. 

Far too much pessimism on here re this game, we will pump them, a  repeat of the last time we played them for me, a comfortable aggregate win.

[Great Balls of Shire]

15 hours ago, numpty said:

As someone who normally reads absolutely zero into pre-season friendlies, I have a similar feeling. To be honest, I don't even mind if our mindset is now to use our transfer hoard to strengthen the squad over the next few weeks at the risk of being papped out of Europe early again. But I'm going into the HB tie with zero expectation of success, at this point.

Can have doubts but zero expectation is overblowing it...we should be taking care of them.

[joewarkfanclub]

Im hoping that even if we have to play one or two of the academy boys, then there should still be enough experience within the squad to see us over the line.

Its not like we havent had an entire season on Jensball to fall back on and the academy boys have now had en entire pre-season including games against 3 pretty tough opponents to bed them in.

I dont think it will be easy. Hanvar will be well organised and they are half way through their season, so likely to have more match sharpness, but we shouldnt be using any of that as an excuse.

Big home crowd for the first real game of the season. Lets make sure we help the boys get it over the line.

[David]

On 7/19/2026 at 7:35 PM, Happy Dosser said:

Yep, this is the structural hurdle (coupled with a low national  UEFA co-efficient) which militates strongly against clubs like ours. Never mind, I'm sure the SFA and SPL will come up with a long-term master plan for the benefit of Scottish football, both at club level and internationally.

The glaring answer for a club our size is to employ the same advantage that other clubs of similar or smaller standing use in countries like Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Ireland, Faroe Islands, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Kazakhstan and others. 

Summer football. Start our league between late February and early April, then finish between late September and early November. 

It's actually pretty interesting when you look at the teams from those summer leagues who have essentially turned that advantage they have into part of their business model. 

There's about 3 million Euros to be made by qualifying for the group stage of the competition we're in just now, I believe. Add on TV rights, higher attendances and prize money for performances, and you're talking about a decent chunk of change. 

The much-discussed Bodø/Glimt have gotten it down to a fine art. Even before they were well-known as the club they are now, they were able to regularly make a decent fist of it in Europe because in qualifiers they would catch the August/September to May teams cold. Those wins resulted in financial windfalls that they then used intelligently, of course. Rinse and repeat. 

It's why we see teams like them, Molde, Malmö, Djurgårdens, and even the likes of Shamrock Rovers do reasonably well in Europe. 

Clubs our size are never ready for these games, and we have to try to find a way through with a patched together team that involves players who might be eyeballing a move away from the club, who've just signed for the club, and a bunch of kids. Throw in the new manager effect and it can go wrong really quickly. 

But we'll never go down that route. Because it makes too much sense.

[stv]

20 minutes ago, David said:

The glaring answer for a club our size is to employ the same advantage that other clubs of similar or smaller standing use in countries like Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Ireland, Faroe Islands, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Kazakhstan and others. 

Summer football. Start our league between late February and early April, then finish between late September and early November. 

It's actually pretty interesting when you look at the teams from those summer leagues who have essentially turned that advantage they have into part of their business model. 

There's about 3 million Euros to be made by qualifying for the group stage of the competition we're in just now, I believe. Add on TV rights, higher attendances and prize money for performances, and you're talking about a decent chunk of change. 

The much-discussed Bodø/Glimt have gotten it down to a fine art. Even before they were well-known as the club they are now, they were able to regularly make a decent fist of it in Europe because in qualifiers they would catch the August/September to May teams cold. Those wins resulted in financial windfalls that they then used intelligently, of course. Rinse and repeat. 

It's why we see teams like them, Molde, Malmö, Djurgårdens, and even the likes of Shamrock Rovers do reasonably well in Europe. 

Clubs our size are never ready for these games, and we have to try to find a way through with a patched together team that involves players who might be eyeballing a move away from the club, who've just signed for the club, and a bunch of kids. Throw in the new manager effect and it can go wrong really quickly. 

But we'll never go down that route. Because it makes too much sense.

Summer football sucks , to use an Americanism. Lots of punters wouldn't go.As there are too many other things to take up your interest in the summer months. Not to mention family two week summer holidays. I wouldn't renew my season ticket for that and i suspect most others wouldn't.  Miss 2 or 3 games and it costs you money on your season . I would pick n choose my games when i had a free weekend.

Its Scotland better things to do in good weather at the weekend than watch football. For me football brightens up a long winter.

It may sound all warm n cozy but its a no from me. Bring on the snow.

[weeyin]

43 minutes ago, David said:

The glaring answer for a club our size is to employ the same advantage that other clubs of similar or smaller standing use in countries like Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Ireland, Faroe Islands, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Kazakhstan and others. 

Summer football. Start our league between late February and early April, then finish between late September and early November. 

It's actually pretty interesting when you look at the teams from those summer leagues who have essentially turned that advantage they have into part of their business model. 

But we'll never go down that route. Because it makes too much sense.

There's all sorts of challenges that would need to be overcome in Scotland with a 10+ month season. From pitch repair and remediation in months where the grass doesn't grow to preseason in mid-winter.

That, however, is for a different thread. 

[David]

I don't think anyone would pretend there are no difficulties with it.

Pitch renovation, preseason timing, supporter holidays, cup scheduling and the transition from the current calendar would all require proper planning. It also wouldn't necessarily mean a ten-month season. You could run from late March or early April until October or early November, which is broadly what several comparable countries already do from what I can see.

The attendance question is fair too, although I don't think any of us can confidently say what most supporters would do without actually asking them or putting it to the test. Some would miss games through holidays, while others might attend more often because the weather and travelling conditions were better. There would be less call-offs due to weather, and it would certainly be interesting to see if we did see a more sustained higher attendance in better weather.

My main point is that our present arrangement has a significant competitive cost in relation to Europe.

Clubs like us regularly enter financially important European qualifiers while rebuilding their squads, bedding in new signings and trying to become match fit. At the same time, opponents from summer leagues can be halfway through their domestic seasons.

That doesn't guarantee those clubs success of course, but being competitively ready when European qualification begins is still an advantage, particularly for clubs operating on fine margins.

The question in my mind then is not whether summer football would be perfect. It wouldn't be. I'm sure fans in Norway, Sweden, Finland etc will readily tell you there's pros and cons.

The question is whether Scottish football should seriously examine a calendar that might improve European performance, reduce weather-related disruption and create additional income for clubs outside the Old Firm? And then compare those benefits honestly against the operational and supporter concerns.

At the moment, we tend to dismiss the idea before doing that work. We do things the way we've always done them and so on.

Also, a summer calendar would give Scottish football a far more valuable place in the football broadcasting calendar. But that topic absolutely is for another thread.

[Spiderpig]

Scottish clubs and the national team need to start winning Euro tropies again, getting to the latter stages of every  competition on a regular basis, winning more games etc, etc to increase the country and club coefficients.

Unless this happens the Scottish club sides will always be starting their Euro adventures in June and July when all the teams from the good leagues are still on the beach sunning themselves.

So for me playing winter or summer will make no difference if our teams are continually shite and failing to progress beyond the diddy team rounds.

[David]

11 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

So for me playing winter or summer will make no difference if our teams are continually shite and failing to progress beyond the diddy team rounds.

Aye, but in order to stop being "continually shite" we need to look at the reasons for it.

Our coefficient means clubs like Motherwell enter Europe at the early stages. We play those ties in preseason basically, often with half a squad, new players being integrated and limited competitive sharpness. We lose, gain very few coefficient points and return the following year in pretty much the exact same position.

Our opponents have played 16 games or so at this point. This time last season, if we were going into European football, we'd be fielding the kind of team that beat Stenhousemuir 1-0 a few days before and was heading into our friendly with Hertha.

Just had been with us for less than two weeks, as well as Longelo and Said.

We were 16 games into our league season on December 6th, and had just beaten Livi 3-0 and hadn't lost a game in nearly two months. Imagine if that team was the one that was going into these early European ties? I don't know about you, but I'd be a whole lot more confident.

As things stand, I absolutely do not expect anything to change. Us, and clubs like us, are nowhere near ready for European football at this stage. We need a really good draw to help us, otherwise we'll likely trip up and fail against a team we'd have a really good chance of beating if we were up to speed.

[Goggles & Flippers]

7 hours ago, David said:

I don't think anyone would pretend there are no difficulties with it.

Pitch renovation, preseason timing, supporter holidays, cup scheduling and the transition from the current calendar would all require proper planning. It also wouldn't necessarily mean a ten-month season. You could run from late March or early April until October or early November, which is broadly what several comparable countries already do from what I can see.

The attendance question is fair too, although I don't think any of us can confidently say what most supporters would do without actually asking them or putting it to the test. Some would miss games through holidays, while others might attend more often because the weather and travelling conditions were better. There would be less call-offs due to weather, and it would certainly be interesting to see if we did see a more sustained higher attendance in better weather.

My main point is that our present arrangement has a significant competitive cost in relation to Europe.

Clubs like us regularly enter financially important European qualifiers while rebuilding their squads, bedding in new signings and trying to become match fit. At the same time, opponents from summer leagues can be halfway through their domestic seasons.

That doesn't guarantee those clubs success of course, but being competitively ready when European qualification begins is still an advantage, particularly for clubs operating on fine margins.

The question in my mind then is not whether summer football would be perfect. It wouldn't be. I'm sure fans in Norway, Sweden, Finland etc will readily tell you there's pros and cons.

The question is whether Scottish football should seriously examine a calendar that might improve European performance, reduce weather-related disruption and create additional income for clubs outside the Old Firm? And then compare those benefits honestly against the operational and supporter concerns.

At the moment, we tend to dismiss the idea before doing that work. We do things the way we've always done them and so on.

Also, a summer calendar would give Scottish football a far more valuable place in the football broadcasting calendar. But that topic absolutely is for another thread.

I'm in favour of summer football for most of the reasons you outline. There are a few things I don't know and maybe wouldn't know without further digging and the actual implementation of it.

First, how would a March till December league work with the practicality of transfers? We get a mid season window here for a month but imagine one is 3.5 months long which could affect cohesion and momentum.

Would we struggle to attract players for three months till mid-December on late August deadline day? Maybe they'd be thrilled at Xmas off and January in Dubai but they also could not be happy at 17 months straight football and no summer holiday, how many League One players would want to join us in mid-May with 50 games already under their belt from August the previous year.

Our preseason business would limited to one month only and at a time when the pickings are slimmer than in the summer, from the start of February you can't affect things in any meaningful until mid May. I guess with a number of Northern European leagues already dealing with these there are answers to a lot of this.

We're pretty unique in the Uk for a Northern European country that we can't wait to get abroad when we have the best chance of good weather at home. In Scandinavia it's nowhere near the same culture, while not universal they tend to vacation more on shoulders of summer and deep winter. So attendances and revenue may be hit here. Could the shortfall be made up by a better TV deal with Sky and the SPFL having zero competition for UK audiences for 3.5 months every second year.

In the year we transition, mid May league finishes .... what do we do until March the following year? There would have to be some sort of mini tournament to keep those teams in Europe ticking over. In WC and Euro years to use this summer as an example, the Scotland squad reported a few days after the final games and were released three weeks ago. Raskin a fortnight ago, when do we go back to a full schedule, FIFA/UEFA have blackouts and player burnout would have to be considered.

However, I think the upgrading FP/Move thread has shown, there's a strong reticence to change and breaking the habit of winter attendance, what has always been known/a thing. I'd suggest the majority of Scottish football fans will operate with a hierarchy of how does it affect me, my club, national team, wider society ... all in that order.

Beyond that, Scottish football decision makers and administrators have shown it is full of silo builders and the epitome of parochialism. We can't even agree a consensus on colt teams in lower leagues, reserve and U21 football or anything else for kids development that comes from a Henry McLeish report commissioned after a Scotland failure and national moratorium.

With so many +65 guys called Hughie in blazers in almost every Scottish football club there is zero chance we can get the numbers required even if presented with a business case that is a slam dunk change and our fortunes.

"Wee Ne'erday dram, down the Ex Serviceman's, OF match, up the road for steak pie. No way I'm not giving that up"

[joewarkfanclub]

Even ignoring the parochialism that stands in the way of change, there is also the fact that the Scottish Winter isnt actually reliable.

We have no idea from one winter to the next when the bad weather will be.

Ive been hill climbing in shirt sleeves in December and knee deep in snow in March. We have a maritime climate and our bad weather (and good weather) is at the mercy of the jetstream.

I get the advantages for European Football, and the possibility for greater tv revenue off the back of it, but in a world when the close season is now about 6 weeks, Im not sure moving to Summer football would actually be worth the hassle.

[weeyin]

Most of the summer leagues are trying to avoid their unplayable winters. Ireland is the exception, but they wanted less competition from their more popular sports.

I remember on a different thread I put together a list of all the challenges of playing a 10+ month season with off-season being the winter.

I won't repeat them all in this thread, but a big one is the ever-expanding Euros and World Cups taking place every other summer. So teams with international players are going to be deprived of key team members for 5 or 6 weeks in alternate years.

If the intent is to be more competitive in Europe, the Conference League for example, has ties scheduled in December and February. The Europa League has ties scheduled in December, January & February. So any level of success would mean a 12 month season including winter.

Logistically it might be easier if there were less games in our season, but I don't see clubs voting for that either.

 

 

[David]

I think there are a lot of fair points being raised in this thread, and I'm certainly not suggesting summer football is a silver bullet.

The reason I'm open to it is that none of these challenges are unique to Scotland. Norway, Sweden, Finland, Ireland and similar nations have had to deal with transfer windows, scheduling, transition seasons and international tournaments, so there are clearly workable models out there. And looking at some of these nations, it's clear that whatever they're doing is working.

For me, the weather isn't really the driver. It's the competitive and commercial side. If there was no serious financial or European advantage, I'd probably agree it wouldn't be worth the upheaval. But if being match sharp in July, having more settled squads and not competing directly with the Premier League for TV attention for part of the year gave clubs a better chance of reaching league phases and bringing in a few million euros every few years, then it's at least a conversation worth having.

Take Hearts against Sturm Graz. Getting through that tie wouldn't just have meant another qualifying round payment. It would have guaranteed Europa League football and around €5 million from UEFA before you even factor in ticket sales or performance bonuses. That's the scale of the fine margins we're talking about. Being a little sharper or having a more settled squad wouldn't guarantee they'd win that tie, but it might just improve their chances enough to make a difference. As it is, they have a new manager, a brand new squad and they got wiped out before they even really got going.

I'd also separate why some countries originally adopted summer football from the advantages it gives them today. Norway may have done it because of the climate, but being halfway through the domestic season when European qualifiers come around is now an advantage regardless of the original reason.

As for European games in December or February, that would be an amazing problem to have! If Motherwell are still playing in Europe at that stage, we've already had a very successful season and the financial rewards would probably outweigh the inconvenience. 

The thing is, I don't think there's a perfect calendar. Every model has its own trade-offs. The question for me is whether another model would leave Scottish football in a stronger position than the one we've got now. I'm not convinced summer football is the answer to everything, but I do think we've been following the same approach for decades without really asking whether there's a better one.

And I'm sure we'll all be shocked and dismayed when us or whoever else gets pumped out by a team that's fitter, more cohesive and settled because they hold advantages over us. We'll blame it on slow transfer business, the board, the manager, but the truth is, it's just a result of the model we operate with.