Guest 'Flow Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Don't sit in the main stand, Cooper for me - right in the middle, back row and I can assure that there was no criticsm from there until the substitution Why was there criticism though? Clarkson had taken a knock and that is why he was removed. I couldn't understand the small sprinkling of booing at the time. 'Flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW1886 Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I don't think the Mark McGhee fan club at the back of the Cooper realised that Clarky was injured when he went off to be fair to them. That said, most of their anger was directed at who was coming on more than the removal of Clarky and the fact that he's on loan from Celtic. We could be winning 12-0 and the abuse of McGhee would be raining down from them, and I'll stake a claim that Buzz would have signed his new contract if it wasn't for the abuse he received when we played Hibs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Well Fan Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 The problem most of the time is that the people doing the moaning are just never happy. The people who sit behind me gave Clarkson abuse right up until he was subbed, even accusing him of not trying and they were shouting that he should be taken off yet when the substituion was made these same people changed their mind and started giving Mark McGhee abuse saying he shouldn't be taking Clarkson off. With people like that you just can't win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman1991 Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Why was there criticism though? Clarkson had taken a knock and that is why he was removed. I couldn't understand the small sprinkling of booing at the time. 'Flow Flow - the criticism was because of who was replaced (Clarky was having a great game and was our major threat) - and as I said in my earlier post - Davie's continued performance up to that point certainly gave me no indication of a knock. It wasn't until he re-emerged with the ice-pack that I realised why the substitution had been made. Polomint - I think the anger was directed at McGhee for who was coming off rather than the substitute. It wasn't obvious why the substitution had been made, until the application of an ice-pack. It was seen at the time, I would think by the majority, as a 'tactical' change. Given the lack of threat/performance from others I think this was a reasonable assumption at the time. Hmmmm hindsight or perhaps a more beneficial approach might be to announce prior to the change why its happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I like Mark McGhee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Argument seems to have strayed towards a bashing for those who don't worship McGhee on a daily basis. I happen to think McGhee has done an excellent job for us but he is far from flawless and I don't agree with the sentiments of his extremely well written article. The standard of SPL football is dire at present. I think this probably hits the nail on the head for me. I'm seen (rightly, I confess) as a very harsh critic of McGhee. Possibly his harshest on this forum. That's not to say that I can't see the various good things he has done while in charge of the club. Possibly I overstate a lot of my criticisms of him (valid as they may be) in order to be heard over the sycophancy that prevails. I've said on this forum before that I've never known a Motherwell manager to be so exempt from scrutiny from a vast majority of the support never mind criticism. Had a previous manager decided to try Paul Quinn in centre midfield, decided in the club's first European game for some years to suddenly try a formation the team hadn't played in years or, to go back to his first season, chosen a winnable league cup tie against Rangers to try Ross McCormack leading the line with Clarkson on the wing and Porter on the bench, then questions would have been asked. The decision to award Bob Malcolm a contract has barely raised an eyebrow, strange given the value for money he represents. Hindsight is great, I know, but other managers have been judged on such decisions. Even our most recent game, despite what Flow says, Neil was correct in pointing out that the game was drifting away from us thanks to Aberdeen changing their shape. We didn't adapt and I believe that had Considine not been sent off, a defeat could have been on the cards. No one asks why McGhee struggles to change the shape of the team to a postive effect in a game in the way that Calderwood can. McGhee brought Clarkson off the bench against Dundee United recently and Clarkson duly won us the game. Bringing on your best striker against a tiring defence is hardly tactical genius. I struggle to think of an occasion where McGhee's thinking out of the box has won us the game. I realise this has turned into what seems like a litany of criticism once again from me and for that I apologise. McGhee has us playing good football and his record at Motherwell is a good one. I just don't feel he should be exempt from criticism as many on this forum seem to. As I've said, perhaps that's why I feel the need to voice my criticism so loudly. So at least some (reasoned and semi-thought out) dissenting opinions are heard. As Big Stall says, and on this I agree with him, it's all about opinions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhenry Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Mcghee is by no means exempt from critisism. IMO he should have brought subs on earlier and murphy should be given time to try and influence the game. But there is fair and unfair critisism and my fear is that the only opinions mcghee can hear are those that are shoutin he is an embarassment. The major fear i have is that when a bigger club comes in, Mcghee will give the old barry ferguson gesture to the fans and be on his way, and i could not blame him for doing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 When you think about it, is there really another manager from the SPL 10 you would rather have at the 'well? Levien - spit the dummy and cry in the daily record whenever a team sets up defensive in front of you? His team has imploded after christmas 2 years in a row now Calderwood - would rather visit the tanning salon Jeffries - how much moaning can one guy do Mixu - Bawbag! Shabba - I dont know about him much to be honest Yoggi - do we really want to be a laughing stock? etc etc I'de take McGhee over any one of them, any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 When you think about it, is there really another manager from the SPL 12 you would rather have at the 'well? Fixed that mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Fixed that mate! Cheers, but you know what i meant. As much as Chesney is a fud and Walter is probably past it, at least they have accomplishments at their clubs and reasonable history at their previous ones. I would take McGhee over those 2 any day as well, but im sure some on here would beg to differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I think this probably hits the nail on the head for me. I'm seen (rightly, I confess) as a very harsh critic of McGhee. Possibly his harshest on this forum. That's not to say that I can't see the various good things he has done while in charge of the club. Possibly I overstate a lot of my criticisms of him (valid as they may be) in order to be heard over the sycophancy that prevails. I've said on this forum before that I've never known a Motherwell manager to be so exempt from scrutiny from a vast majority of the support never mind criticism. Had a previous manager decided to try Paul Quinn in centre midfield, decided in the club's first European game for some years to suddenly try a formation the team hadn't played in years or, to go back to his first season, chosen a winnable league cup tie against Rangers to try Ross McCormack leading the line with Clarkson on the wing and Porter on the bench, then questions would have been asked. The decision to award Bob Malcolm a contract has barely raised an eyebrow, strange given the value for money he represents. Hindsight is great, I know, but other managers have been judged on such decisions. Even our most recent game, despite what Flow says, Neil was correct in pointing out that the game was drifting away from us thanks to Aberdeen changing their shape. We didn't adapt and I believe that had Considine not been sent off, a defeat could have been on the cards. No one asks why McGhee struggles to change the shape of the team to a postive effect in a game in the way that Calderwood can. McGhee brought Clarkson off the bench against Dundee United recently and Clarkson duly won us the game. Bringing on your best striker against a tiring defence is hardly tactical genius. I struggle to think of an occasion where McGhee's thinking out of the box has won us the game. I realise this has turned into what seems like a litany of criticism once again from me and for that I apologise. McGhee has us playing good football and his record at Motherwell is a good one. I just don't feel he should be exempt from criticism as many on this forum seem to. As I've said, perhaps that's why I feel the need to voice my criticism so loudly. So at least some (reasoned and semi-thought out) dissenting opinions are heard. As Big Stall says, and on this I agree with him, it's all about opinions... I'm running out of time on my lunch but to counter some of that Melvin but I would disagree that McGhee has been exempt from criticism. Perhaps this might be too simplistic but is not perhaps the case that generally when we win and do well and for the most part that's what's what we've done under McGhee that generally folk are happy with their lot and find no reason to dig too deeply for concerns? Certainly I recall in times of trouble such as the run of form pre-Christmas and the exits in the Cups to likes of Dundee and St Mirren that there have been plenty willing to look a bit more in depth at problems then. Likewise you say he has shown no "out of the box" thinking but then go on to criticise him for trying Quinn in midfield, or Clarkson on the wing and deep. He has also converted Klimpl from a central defender back to a midfielder he hadn't played in for some years. Is that not some of the unconvential thinking you are looking for? Ofcourse the Coach and Clarky things didn't go as well but again there were plenty on hand on the boards who were quick to point out the failings of the moves which again leads me to believe that its more a case of folk are simply happier to let things go when the goings good rather than any sycophanitcal devotion to McGhee. Yasss made it with a minute to spare. To the flexi machine......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman1991 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Cheers, but you know what i meant. As much as Chesney is a fud and Walter is probably past it, at least they have accomplishments at their clubs and reasonable history at their previous ones. I would take McGhee over those 2 any day as well, but im sure some on here would beg to differ. You'll get no argument from me on that topic - would have McGhee over any of the others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosser1886 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I'm running out of time on my lunch but to counter some of that Melvin but I would disagree that McGhee has been exempt from criticism. Perhaps this might be too simplistic but is not perhaps the case that generally when we win and do well and for the most part that's what's what we've done under McGhee that generally folk are happy with their lot and find no reason to dig too deeply for concerns? Certainly I recall in times of trouble such as the run of form pre-Christmas and the exits in the Cups to likes of Dundee and St Mirren that there have been plenty willing to look a bit more in depth at problems then. Likewise you say he has shown no "out of the box" thinking but then go on to criticise him for trying Quinn in midfield, or Clarkson on the wing and deep. He has also converted Klimpl from a central defender back to a midfielder he hadn't played in for some years. Is that not some of the unconvential thinking you are looking for? Ofcourse the Coach and Clarky things didn't go as well but again there were plenty on hand on the boards who were quick to point out the failings of the moves which again leads me to believe that its more a case of folk are simply happier to let things go when the goings good rather than any sycophanitcal devotion to McGhee. Got to agree, oops sorry, kiss your arse on that Andy_P McGee isn't perfect and has made mistakes, nobody said he was or hasn't but I'm enjoying watching the football much more than I have under most other managers that we have had over the year, and for that he and the players have my thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 'Flow Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Even our most recent game, despite what Flow says, Neil was correct in pointing out that the game was drifting away from us thanks to Aberdeen changing their shape. We didn't adapt and I believe that had Considine not been sent off, a defeat could have been on the cards. I disagree - I didn't think we were under any real pressure whatsoever. Other than the goal, I can only remember one shot at goal the entire game and that was when Aluko drove that near post effort that Buzz dealt with relatively comfortably. Their goal came from yet another set-piece (yes, a long throw ) which isn't really cutting us open with fancy play or a change in style. After they scored, there was a grand total of two minutes and fifty seconds of play before Considine was carded so I am not too sure we can say what team was going to deal with the equaliser better. Plenty of times (the last home game at Fir Park as an example) we've been ahead, conceded and gone on to take the three points. It's as the gaffer (and other SPL bosses) says; In the majority of cases, scoring first in the SPL gives you a fantastic chance of winning the game even if you are pegged back. I personally don't buy this idea that we were under any sort of pressure by Aberdeen - I am one of the most nervous 'Well fans you can get watching the team and I didn't feel the side were in any real danger throughout the ninety minutes other than one or two dead balls. Incidentally, the gaffer is, in my opinion (and statistically too) the best boss we've had in a long, long time. I don't think we'll appreciate just how good until he eventually goes... 'Flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFCGMFC Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I am one of the most nervous 'Well fans you can get watching the team'Flow by christ mate you aren't half!! set pieces just aint your thing mate are they!! lol we all do it its just a well thing!! i only get nervous when the old firm are within shooting distance of our box cause you know they are gonna score but the rest of the spl can be easily dealt with as for the gaffer aye he's made mistakes and taken criticism but show me a manger who hasn't? unfortunately there is bawbags who see the bad in 9/10 of his decisions but he can't please everyone? he's worked wonders for our club but some people forget that sometimes as for the clarky sub aye he is our best attacking threat but he was getting kicked all over the park by the dons center backs it was only a matter of time before he had to come off as much as we didnt want him too but it had to be done and i think sheridan can be a very able replacement if he picks up a bit of form before he returns to celtic we can make the top six - i've got a bloody fiver riding on it!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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