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Partick Thistle V Motherwell 11/04/15 - Huge Away Crowd Expected

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I agree about Sutton but not Straker. Sutton is very much a penalty box player to use when we're on top - not in yesterday's type of game.

 

Straker? I admit he's a bit of a bombscare and erratic but overall he's no worse than Josh Law. Both were caught out time and again yesterday through poor positioning. In addition Law gave Ainsworth virtually no service at all. However to focus only on the failings of Straker and/or Law is to ignore major failings elsewhere in the side. Starker seems to be the figure of criticism for many but thats being selectively unfair.

 

I agree with andy P in that we can't afford to throw in the towel. There's now 15 points up for grabs and even if we do finish 11th there's still a play off in which to do the business. If the fans throw in towel now the players are quite entitled to do the same thing.

 

Josh Law isn't great but he's nowhere near as bad as Straker.

 

At one point Straker turned himself inside out and decided in his wisdom to pass the ball along his own byline to a Keeper who's kicking was atrocious all day. People aren't just making up reasons to criticise him, the guy is, in your own words a bombscare which is not an accusation you can throw at Law.

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I may be wrong but I don't think many are actually blaming Sutton. They're saying that including Sutton up front at the expense of Erwin changed the dynamic of the team. That's not john Sutton's fault. Erwin can drag players around with his mobility and pace and that creates space for himself and others. That's not Sutton's game hence the reason we never had an out ball and ended up trying to pass in areas that were too tight or trying to force the play with passes that were not on.

 

We made it easy for Thistle and lessons need to be learned or we're down.

 

That's how I see it too. However, he did have a very poor game. Baraclough mentioned in his post match interview we had chances to retain possession just before the second goal and one of those was a poor touch from Sutton, which was typical of the day he had. Nothing stuck to him at all and without the link up play we had enjoyed between Erwin and McDonald in previous games the front three were completely ineffective.

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For me most teams in the spl can beat each other on there day.

 

I certainly thought Partick would be a difficult game.

 

We just offered nothing apart from the Sutton chance.

 

Agree we looked really flat & lethargic for a big big game.

 

That's nothing to do with players freezing in my opinion, more a lack of belief that the set up was right to win the game for me.

 

I think majority of well fans would have been thinking we need to change this within 5 minutes of the 2nd half.

 

On the Straker debate.

 

Yesterday for me he wasn't worse than anyone else.

 

Am sure the fans will get right behind the team in the next game, & the game after that, & the game after that.

 

But they really need to give more than they did yesterday

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Wasn't there yesterday due to some outstanding issues i have with the stewards at Firhill and thank god i wasn't. Sounds like it was a thourghly grim day. Again the fans turn out in huge numbers and were let down by the players and gaffer, the talk of throwing in the towel had me asking myself if i had threw the towel in and sadly i keep coming up with yes i have.

The horrendous run of form we had has just left us with too much ground to make up, what makes it worse is the playoffs are going to be a complete farse, every game Rangers play in they will helped by some shall we say favourable decisions from the officials who will be told to get Rangers up by any means necessary.

I would love nothing more than to be proved wrong bit i fully expect County to beat St Midden and that gap will just be too much to claw back. No matter what happens though i'll still be back supporting the team next season and I believe Baraclough should get a chance to put things right next season although i will say he has baffled me at times with team selections this season.

Oh the joys of being a Well fan.

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We had no out ball going forward yesterday. Ainsworth was doubled up on from the first minute and received zero supply and Sutton cannot play this target man role. The comments around where I sat, seemed to draw a similar conclusion. Nothing delusional, nothing malicious, just stating the bleeding obvious. The shape of the last few weeks dynamically changed. We ended up playing hoof ball again and looked a sorry lot. IMO 10th position is gone. the management team got it wrong yesterday and then persisted with it at 2-0 before baffling substitution switches. A relatively poor Partick side showed up major deficiencies in our line up, so we need to address all these issues prior to The Rangers Play Off match. Good luck on that one, I just hope the new players hold no fear and get stuck in.

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Im confused at your point ( could be the fact I'm still drunk to be fair )

 

You make it sound like a lot of Motherwell fans that spent decent money to watch that pish yesterday & pleased that there prophecies have been proved right???

 

You then go on to say effectively that Erwin is never a left mid as he wouldnt work for Sutton???

 

Also that the writing was on the wall from free kicks.

 

Seems your prophecies came to fruition as well.

 

For me I don't mind the fact we started with the team we did, but any Motherwell fan there could see it needed changed within 5 minutes of the re-start.

 

Baraclough new that as wee hence why he tried McDonald at left mid.

 

Why not simply take Sutton off ( who I like ), bring Thomas on left mid & get back to Erwin & McDonald up front.

 

Thomas was never going to do anything by the time he come on. The game was already done.

 

He's by no means the saviour, but couldn't have been any worse that the dross on show yesterday

 

I hope we do, but we're never winning 4 on the bounce

 

No I suggested a number of people on here seem to have a degree of schadenfreude especially when they can troop out the old "I told you so". Yes yesterday wasn't ideal mainly because we took a good support and that support wasn't rewarded with a result, but by no means were we entitled to one.

 

I said nothing of the sort about Erwin. Normally a strong tall target man striker works best when he has a nippy striker partner playing off him. Higdon and Ojamaa for example. For me yesterday confirmed that Sutton works better from byline crosses than having someone like Skippy. To take greatest advantage of Sutton, the support players have to get to the corners and whip balls in. I don't think Erwin has that at present.

 

I was concerned with the defencive frailties on Tuesday which were exploited by a better team who have been accruing as many points as us over the past month. I take no glee in that fact.

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No I suggested a number of people on here seem to have a degree of schadenfreude especially when they can troop out the old "I told you so". Yes yesterday wasn't ideal mainly because we took a good support and that support wasn't rewarded with a result, but by no means were we entitled to one.

 

I said nothing of the sort about Erwin. Normally a strong tall target man striker works best when he has a nippy striker partner playing off him. Higdon and Ojamaa for example. For me yesterday confirmed that Sutton works better from byline crosses than having someone like Skippy. To take greatest advantage of Sutton, the support players have to get to the corners and whip balls in. I don't think Erwin has that at present.

 

I was concerned with the defencive frailties on Tuesday which were exploited by a better team who have been accruing as many points as us over the past month. I take no glee in that fact.

 

I definitely take your points.

 

Although I think ur still saying Erwin & Sutton can't work in the same team ha ha

 

I've read this forum for years without contributing.

 

I think this may be one of the 1st threads Iv read where most people are giving a balance view on where they think the team/manager/club are at the moment.

 

Some people think we can win 4 games.

 

Some people think we're destined for the play offs.

 

For me it depends if St Mirren can take anything again Ross county.

 

Either way if the team show heart & desire to scrap for every ball then the fans will get behind them

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Josh Law isn't great but he's nowhere near as bad as Straker.

 

At one point Straker turned himself inside out and decided in his wisdom to pass the ball along his own byline to a Keeper who's kicking was atrocious all day. People aren't just making up reasons to criticise him, the guy is, in your own words a bombscare which is not an accusation you can throw at Law.

I don't want to turn this into a sterile "who is the worst" debate. In my view both full back positions have been one of our achilles heel positions all season and I hope that neither Law nor Straker are with us next season. We will need two new FBs next campaign for various reasons - Luke Watt may start to develop and it'll be Steve Hammell's last year and no-one can predict how he'll shape up for that.

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Although I think ur still saying Erwin & Sutton can't work in the same team ha ha

 

Again, not at all, I'm saying that using Erwin as a winger for Sutton isn't working as he isn't capable of providing enough telling crosses of decent quality. I'd actually quite like to see Erwin and Sutton playing through the middle in a 3-5-2 with Johnson and Ainsworth supporting from midfield. It would be interesting to see how many problems two tall, strong strikers playing in tandem could cause challenging for balls in that 6 yard to penalty spot danger area.

 

To experiment with that was something for the last 20 of the Accies or Buddies games when the victory was assured.

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Again, not at all, I'm saying that using Erwin as a winger for Sutton isn't working as he isn't capable of providing enough telling crosses of decent quality. I'd actually quite like to see Erwin and Sutton playing through the middle in a 3-5-2 with Johnson and Ainsworth supporting from midfield. It would be interesting to see how many problems two tall, strong strikers playing in tandem could cause challenging for balls in that 6 yard to penalty spot danger area.

 

To experiment with that was something for the last 20 of the Accies or Buddies games when the victory was assured.

But previously u said a target man with a nippy striker was the best option

 

For me Erwin & McDonald up top works

 

Sutton as an impact sub works.

 

What we lined up as yesterday simply didn't, that's not hindsight, it was obvious during the game & should have been changed earlier

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The blame Sutton people have to recognise a number things.

 

1) Without Sutton's goals this season we'd already be relegated.

 

2) Partick Thistle were better all over the pitch than us yesterday and have been all season, look at results and league placing, or if you were one of the 1,000 Motherwell supporters who came to this match on the back of the St. Mirren match expecting a win but weren't at the previous game at Firhill, on our last match there.

 

3) The team froze under pressure, would any other formation or minor line really change have prevented that?

 

4) When McDonald, Erwin, Pearson, Lasley, in fact the whole team, is poor, why does Sutton get the blame?

 

5) We've started Erwin upfront in 6 matches recently , won 3 drawn 1 and lost 1 and one of those wins only came after Erwin was moved to wide left, and the others were against the two poorest form teams in the league. What makes people on here think that we are some invincible outfit with Erwin up and that victory is inevitable?

Sutton gets a bit of the blame because at times he didn't look like a footballer. A fucking abomination of a player who couldn't even pass the ball yesterday.

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At last some sensible perspective on todays bad result.

The problem is that we now need someone else to slip up to allow us to avoid the play offs.

Before yesterday's game the players held the clubs destiny in their hands - today they rely on others to pull us out of this mess and having sat through that display I find it difficult to see us winning all our remaining games.

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But previously u said a target man with a nippy striker was the best option

 

For me Erwin & McDonald up top works

 

Sutton as an impact sub works.

 

What we lined up as yesterday simply didn't, that's not hindsight, it was obvious during the game & should have been changed earlier

 

Perceived wisdom suggests that is the case, slower big guy with a wee fast guy, Coyne and Arnott, Sutton and Shearer, etc. I didn't advocate it either way. Yesterday convinced me that with Sutton, wingers are the best option.

 

Hindsight would suggest a straight swap for Johnson with Thomas, however I think Baraclough didn't want to expose him to a potential full 90 minutes. Consequently he opted for seasoned campaigner Sutton and pushed the on form Erwin out wide. You live and learn.

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The problem is that we now need someone else to slip up to allow us to avoid the play offs.

Before yesterday's game the players held the clubs destiny in their hands - today they rely on others to pull us out of this mess and having sat through that display I find it difficult to see us winning all our remaining games.

Its still in our own hands,we wont finish bottom so worst case is the playoff,so win that over 2 legs and we stay up. while i dont want us to finish 11th there is nothing to fear in 2 games against Hibs, QOS or Rangers. Have some faith

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Our away record is even worse under Baraclough than it was under McCall.

 

In 9 away fixtures under Baraclough we have conceded at least 2 goals in 7 of the matches and we've only kept one clean sheet, which rather damningly was his first match in charge.



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Under mccall we had gained 4 points away. Under baraclough its 6 points. The blame for this seasons shambolic displays does not just lay on one man. There have been many failures on and off the field.

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Tedious reading how many supporters appear to have thrown in the towel.

you honestly think andy that if County beat Saints tmoro night it can be anything other than the play off spot, I like your optimism but sorry I just can't see it .

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I still have a wee sneaky that the saints will do County

 

I would like to think so, but I don't share your optimism. After our defeat yesterday Ross C know a win and they are almost safe.

 

They have (imho) had some luck in this run of wins. A lot of the games have been 50-50, but they keep coming away with 3 points. I expect tomorrow evening to be similar. As well as St Mirren may play - it will probably not happen nor be good enough.

 

Stranger things happen, so you just never know.

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They're hardly a certainty tomorrow, I think they'll win too but it would only be a small surprise if they don't.

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you honestly think andy that if County beat Saints tmoro night it can be anything other than the play off spot, I like your optimism but sorry I just can't see it .

I very much doubt it Jim, but you never know. But if you go back and see the post immediately above the reply you've quoted you'll see the reference to being effectively relegated by the split.

 

Milo has come since back with a much more reasoned and reasonable response but seeing that on the back of a few other posts and tweets prompted the remark.

 

It all sounds horribly happy chappy but painful as the predicament is, we dust ourselves down, focus on the next game and back the team as much as we can. Negativity and defeatism that transmits itself to the team won't do us much good.

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I very much doubt it Jim, but you never know. But if you go back and see the post immediately above the reply you've quoted you'll see the reference to being effectively relegated by the split.

 

Milo has come since back with a much more reasoned and reasonable response but seeing that on the back of a few other posts and tweets prompted the remark.

 

It all sounds horribly happy chappy but painful as the predicament is, we dust ourselves down, focus on the next game and back the team as much as we can. Negativity and defeatism that transmits itself to the team won't do us much good.

I started going to games in the late 60,s and if my memory serves me correctly I've seen us relegated 3 times. Load of fans on here have always seen us play the top flight.Football really is a funny old game and escaping the drop even if its through a play off isn't something that's beyond us .My gut feeling is we will stay in the top flight but we will need tae play either Rangers ,Hibs or Queens for the privilege.

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I started going to games in the late 60,s and if my memory serves me correctly I've seen us relegated 3 times. Load of fans on here have always seen us play the top flight.Football really is a funny old game and escaping the drop even if its through a play off isn't something that's beyond us .My gut feeling is we will stay in the top flight but we will need tae play either Rangers ,Hibs or Queens for the privilege.

I was actually thinking something similar earlier.

 

I've been going since I was about 7 in 1988 & have seen loads of things happen.

 

Remarkable the amount of clubs perceived to be bigger than us that have been relegated while we've kept our top flight status.

 

I wouldnt actually mind a year in the 1st division just for something different

 

The only issue is whether we could come straight back up

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I started coming to Fir Park as a 10 or 11 yr old in the mid 80's when we were just returning to the top flight . We have of course been there ever since , but not without lady luck shining on us on more than one occasion . League reconstruction , Brockville being a shithole , the close to disastrous Malpas season , we have flirted with relegation and spent many a year in the lower echelons but always stayed up .

I'm going into denial of the current situation and just praying that by some miracle we will be saved again .

Where is that Leanne guy to tell me everything will be ok when I need him ?

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