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Yoshi-1991

That Numbers Discussion Again

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So we have had 2 large crowds at the finals this season, and also bumper support for the semi finals as well. It has got me thinking again of that old topic of support. The fact we sold out our allocation for the final goes to show there are "potential" numbers that are not showing up during the season. The question comes up again of why? 

Obviously within this you have your day trippers, that will only come out for the finals. People who used to be regulars who have now dropped away is also a contributing factor. Sprinkled in are the neutrals and the fans of "other" teams. 

But it begs the question, what could be done to turn the part timers and day trippers into more regular supporters, could the club be doing more?

For me, there have been a few things that stand in the way of the casual supporter. 

First off, the cost. When I started going to Fir Park I went with a few friends, then with my cousin and my Dad, who I then went with for around 10 years or so. My cousin is now firmly in the "Scottish football is pish" camp and would rather watch the English football on TV than go to a Scottish game. For my Dad, its the money aspect, he can't justify to himself paying 20-30 quid a game. I am sure that most people on this forum have similar experiences with people that used to go and now don't.

The second problem is mentality. I think a lot of people treat going to the football as a day out, the same as the cinema, bowling or whatever. Trying to get them to switch from day out to thinking of it as more of a hobby is something quite difficult. 

The third issue I find, and it is something the club could do something about very easily, is that the football is not in the minds of the community in the large scale. Unless you are a football fan, the fact that there is a game on doesnt even cross your mind, and it would cross your mind to find out. The club could be doing with increasing their PR and getting people thinking about the football. Unless you drive past the Fir Park area on Match day you would have no idea there is a game on in the town. Advertisement space is available almost everywhere now, information of when and where the team are playing should be displayed across the town every week. Hiring a few advertisement boards with dates and kick off times of the next few matches and a bit of Motherwell colour about them wouldnt cost all that much in the grand scheme of things.  Even have people handing out flyers in the town centre a few days before a home game with maybe a 10% off ticket price when you take it in to the ticket office kind of deal.

This is more of a vent but I was wanting to open up the discussion. I know its been talked to death before but with the crowds we have been taking to finals and semi finals its fresh in the mind again. Also the fact that the season is over and we have fuck all to talk about for the next several weeks.

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You could also try something like a £10 family of 4 entry deal to the south stand to 2/3 games a season (as long as season ticket holders agreed).

Remember something like that years ago (think it was against Dundee Utd) when the place was jumping.

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The Club have tried umpteen ventures over the years to get the wider community to back them on a more regular basis, nothing seems to work over the long-term. You've answered your own question on why people don't go...cash, apathy, TV exposure of other leagues etc etc..I really don't know how they reverse it, although the advertising of games could most definitely be better.

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Adding to the above, many folk can’t afford the regular cost of football, and this involves way more than just the price of a ticket. Then factor in people with kids or who work weekends, it may be possible for them to make childcare/work arrangements for the less frequent cup games (especially the latter stages), compared to our 4th game against Kilmarnock.

The size of our support has been pretty steady for years, and is comparable to other clubs our size. An increase of a few hundred (like this year) is significant. You hope that the cup final may re-spark some interest in those who just fell away due to apathy, but for most people the factors preventing them from going regularly still exist.

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Our regular home attendance as a percentage of the towns population is the highest in the country, and one of the highest in the UK i believe.

Obviously it's skewed slightly by people like myself who aren't from, and have never lived anywhere near Motherwell, and also whether you add in the surrounding towns and villages as "population", but nevertheless, or crowds are very good for what we are.

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I'm one of the dropped away regulars who'd love to go back more often, but I'd miss so many games due to work that a season ticket is a non-starter, and spending the best part of 30 quid every time can be hard to justify. Saturday was our wee girl's first game, so the £3 per game entry next season is a great move that might make a wee difference, though the £20 season ticket for kids was already a fantastic deal.

Days like Saturday get you fired up, but when it's pissin down and your teeth are chittering in November, even those wi tickets might think twice. I remember that Dundee Utd game and the deals they were doing, like bring a friend for a fiver or free. It worked, up to a point, but it just ended up pissing off folk like me who'd already shelled out (think they offered us a voucher for considerably less than the difference that could only be spent in the club shop).

If you love the club, you never lose that feeling, but the longer you're away the harder it is to go back regularly, like everything else in life.

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You also have to remember our hardcore support of 4000 isn’t the same 4000 every week.

Probably 2500 go to every home game, maybe another 1000 go regularly, then you could have your other 500-1000 at any given game from a pool of maybe 3000+ fans.

Say you actually have around 7-8000 who attend fir park at some point through a season, they’ll all make the effort for a cup final, but for all the reasons mentioned can’t commit to 20+ games a season.

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Good point. It would be interesting to know the spread of matches attended out of the 13.5k that we’re there on Saturday.

I’d agree that  making it cheaper and more enjoyable for kids is a good step to ensuring we have a support in the future, and also make it a more attractive option for families.

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I think football in this country could be priced better but I genuinely don't think a big reduction in ticket prices would make THAT much of a difference. I've got numerous mates that were there on Saturday who are Motherwell supporters and have plenty of cash to go every week. It does my head in but normal answers from them when I ask them to go on a Saturday is they simply can't be arsed or they are doing a variety of others things. Regardless of the product on the park and the price I still don't think they would go every week. They might go a wee bit more but in terms of a jump in numbers I don't think it would be significant. If you look at the years recently where we got very high in the league the crowd didn't increase that much.

There is a pool of people from Saturday say 9/10k maybe genuine Motherwell supporters who weren't going due to the day out or another family member dragging them along. From that pool there is some that go every week then the majority who go occasionally and semi regularly at different times.

Similar to fans of bigger clubs there is folk that class themselves as Motherwell fans who don't go for every week for whatever reason. It just so happens there is vastly more of some other clubs numbers wise.

I'd love more folk to go and i appreciate the club and anyone elses ideas to increase attendance but i've pretty much accepted the likelihood is we aren't going to see a great jump in numbers given they have remained roughly the same for the last 30 years

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With the free season tickets for kids system being in place for a few years now it would be interesting to see how many of these have converted into adult/concessions tickets. 

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The adult population will only ever fall away due to death, alternative options, cash or losing interest.

The new blood or growth will come from the young ones, the next generation, so we need to target them and sustain it through their teenage years.

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Its obviously fairly complex and has a variety of reasons.

I think the country possibly has an unrealistic sense of what attendances should be. We keep comparing ourselves to a country 10 x our size.

You have the scenario where Ross Co were forced to build a 6k seater, when Dingwall doesn't even have that many inhabitants.

Small away attendances (I say this in proporpion to the large stadia) makes for generally shit atmospheres.

The game is actively talked down by those charged to sell/promote it.

Two disproportionately large clubs from  whom the authorities are shit scared - Leading to a sense of an imbalanced competition, even before we get into the numbers in terms of transfer funds available etc.

Shite weather

Cost

 

 

 

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hopefully any young  fans there on Saturday weren't put off and loved the occasion.   All depends where they would be sitting.  The amount of folk that decided to stand for full game blocking views for other folk wasn't ideal , especially for youngsters who then couldn't see.    Nearly a punch up in front of us as one wee cheeky git wouldn't sit down.   Guy behind him was going berserk.   Mind you it was after half an hour and everyone was deflated at that point

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You have to, and club obviously are making efforts on a few fronts  in terms of making pricing as keen as possible, making the "match day experience" as enjoyable as it possibly can be and the work going through all the Community initiatives. That goes I suppose as much for retaining support as building on what we have.

The demand for the two Finals I imagine will have been useful in giving the club a rough guage of what potential currently exists out there.  It will also have been a wonderful opportunity at raising the profile of the club locally.  NLC putting up banners, bunting in the streets, seeing shop and premises windows all decorated is publicity that you can't really buy.  I suspect that everything that came with the Cup Final despite the fact we didn't actually win it will have had much more impact and a positive effect on potential supporters as the seasons we were finishing second or third.

Like Katie though it would be interesting to see how the schemes like Wellevate have been performing.  There was a degree of satisfaction at the beginning of the campaign that home supports were nudging above 4000. It will be interesting to see where we are at the start of next season and if we've been able to capitalise on the Cup Final.

I also think that whilst we look to the club to see what they are doing there is a, perhaps responsibility isn't the right word, but a role for all existing supporters in doing what we can do ourselves.  There are no better people to sell the club than of those of us who already live and breathe the club, and it was good to see that resource tapped into with the likes of the season ticket ads last summer and the cover of the programmes etc.

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And hopefully the club have kept all the contact details of those not already known to the club who bought tickets for the final for future mail shots to build on the feel good factor and hopefully attract them back on a more regular basis. 

Although the new data protection laws probably make that a bit more difficult!

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And hopefully the club have kept all the contact details of those not already known to the club who bought tickets for the final for future mail shots to build on the feel good factor and hopefully attract them back on a more regular basis. 

Although the new data protection laws probably make that a bit more difficult!

Yeah, GDPR requires "opt-in" consent rather than "opt-out" and a legitimate business reason for keeping contact information. It's not as easy now for companies to email you about something just because you bought something else from them that one time. Although having not seen how this was handled for the ticketing, they may be on top of this already.

 

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1, Cost - lots of cheaper alternatives around, and if you've got wife/kids, its not something every female gets into.

2. Shit weather - why we dont adopt 'Summer Football', I dont know.

3. Shit football - one or two bad performaces can turn people off, realistically we're not going to win every home game, but there have been some howlers of late.

The £20 deal for U16's was a great initiative, but when they leave school and cant afford to come as there now on a 'starter' wage etc, I think the 16 - 25/30 age group should be targetted for initiatives. 

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Our average attendance will be up because of 4 games against Celtic and Rangers, if we strip these out how do we compare with last year?

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I know a number of supposedly keen fans who decide to play golf on a Saturday afternoon. I’m no golfer but a bit cynical. Is it easier to get a tee time then or what?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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7 hours ago, ropy said:

Our average attendance will be up because of 4 games against Celtic and Rangers, if we strip these out how do we compare with last year?

I think I seen that we are around 25k fans up on last season, and only played the old firm in one more game...so still well up regardless

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20 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

You also have to remember our hardcore support of 4000 isn’t the same 4000 every week.

Probably 2500 go to every home game, maybe another 1000 go regularly, then you could have your other 500-1000 at any given game from a pool of maybe 3000+ fans.

Say you actually have around 7-8000 who attend fir park at some point through a season, they’ll all make the effort for a cup final, but for all the reasons mentioned can’t commit to 20+ games a season.

Yep that’s often forgotten, a good 60/70% of the final support have probably attended a game this season. The pull of Celtic and Rangers hits home support, not sure it’s a price thing for the average supporter. I would love summer football but that’s just the fact i’m getting older and hate the cold.

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I've not attended any games for a couple of seasons after being a season ticket holder mainly due to financial reasons (travelling costs & ticket prices) and the quality of the football. I'm not expecting teams in the SPL to play like it's La Liga but seeing "professionals" unable to trap a ball or make simple passes I just don't see the value for money. I've also noticed I have an apathy towards Scottish football as the country has zero ambition to improve the game. 

Reducing the prices is part of the solution but I think clubs should look at helping improve match day experience like trying to attract away fans would help build an atmosphere.  Plus stewards not being pricks would help.

Since St Mirren have been promoted I will be going to the 'Well games in Paisley since it is a "home" game to me. 

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10 hours ago, ropy said:

Our average attendance will be up because of 4 games against Celtic and Rangers, if we strip these out how do we compare with last year?

We're still well up overall.  Don't forget too that Hibs replaced ICT. 

Over the past 30/40 years or so society has changed in terms of working patterns and media coverage to name but 2 issues.  Expectations have also risen with the English Premier League being the unrealistic yardstick for many.  Interesting though that many of these games are pretty boring to watch. 

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3 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Expectations have also risen with the English Premier League being the unrealistic yardstick for many.  Interesting though that many of these games are pretty boring to watch. 

They certainly are. I often find myself switching those games off at the weekend and watching a Championship or League 1 game instead.

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