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2020/21 Transfer Discussion Thread

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4 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I’m always amazed at your memory. I’m lucky if I can  remember what happened last week.

A head full of nonsense!  

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We sent Stephen McManus out to do a press conference 3 days later with an absolute beaut of a shiner too haha.

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12 hours ago, Andy_P said:

Sure,  things hadn't been great in the run up to the League Cup game. Only wins since the opening day were a 1-0 win over Killie from a penalty and scraping past East Fife in the previous round of the Cup.  We'd also lost to Hamilton on the Saturday.

For the Morton game Moult, McDonald, Lasley and Ainsworth were all on the bench and only a 90th minute equaliser took it to extra-time. We still managed to blow it and lost 3-2.  There was a side story of the police and stewards being completely OTT whilst all this was going on but that's another story.

Barraclough was dismissed pretty quickly  in the days following the game and it emerged that there had an altercation in the dressing room which was mooted to have been a factor with punches having said to have been thrown.  I don't know if names were actually confirmed but Lionel Ainsworth and Stephen Robinson were speculated to have been two of those involved. 

Thanks Andy! The Robbo/Ainsworth thing does ring a bell actually now that you mention it but don't think I ever knew where it had started.

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19 hours ago, weeyin said:

And includes results like beating Spain in Spain.

Ha! Includes results like beating Spain in Spain and.....what else?  Unless you think 1-0 wins over the likes of Slovakia or Bulgaria are noteworthy.

By the way stats from the match; Possession - Spain 75%  N. Ireland 25%.  Corners - Spain 22  N. Ireland 0.  Shots - Spain 25  N. Ireland 1. 

Fair play to them for winning but it was a fluke.

 

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13 hours ago, Andy_P said:

Sure,  things hadn't been great in the run up to the League Cup game. Only wins since the opening day were a 1-0 win over Killie from a penalty and scraping past East Fife in the previous round of the Cup.  We'd also lost to Hamilton on the Saturday.

For the Morton game Moult, McDonald, Lasley and Ainsworth were all on the bench and only a 90th minute equaliser took it to extra-time. We still managed to blow it and lost 3-2.  There was a side story of the police and stewards being completely OTT whilst all this was going on but that's another story.

Barraclough was dismissed pretty quickly  in the days following the game and it emerged that there had an altercation in the dressing room which was mooted to have been a factor with punches having said to have been thrown.  I don't know if names were actually confirmed but Lionel Ainsworth and Stephen Robinson were speculated to have been two of those involved. 

It was 3-2 to Morton but it should have been 5, 6, 7, 8  to Morton.  They absolutely demolished us and Joe Chalmers at left back got one of the worst goings over I've ever seen in football.

McDonald on as a sub brought us back into it but even in Extra Time, when you'd have thought the momentum would be in our favour, Morton totally gubbed us and could have scored a 2 or 3 in the last half hour.

It was one of the worst humiliations I've ever seen as a Motherwell fan.  We've lost to teams like Alloa Athletic or Albion Rovers but they were crappy, scrappy matches that could have gone either way.  Morton absolutely pumped us that night and we were an utter shambles.  Probably not seen a lower league side roll us over like that since the Ayr United match at Fir Park.

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2 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

It was 3-2 to Morton but it should have been 5, 6, 7, 8  to Morton.  They absolutely demolished us and Joe Chalmers at left back got one of the worst goings over I've ever seen in football.

McDonald on as a sub brought us back into it but even in Extra Time, when you'd have thought the momentum would be in our favour, Morton totally gubbed us and could have scored a 2 or 3 in the last half hour.

It was one of the worst humiliations I've ever seen as a Motherwell fan.  We've lost to teams like Alloa Athletic or Albion Rovers but they were crappy, scrappy matches that could have gone either way.  Morton absolutely pumped us that night and we were an utter shambles.  Probably not seen a lower league side roll us over like that since the Ayr United match at Fir Park.

These games happen. I have sat through 'the worst humiliation I've ever seen as a Well fan' about 100 times under ever manager we have had since the mid 1980's. I have watched turgid dross under Davie Hay, Tommy McLean, Alex McLeish, Terry Butcher, Maurice Malpas, Harri Kampman, Jim Gannon, Mark McGhee, Billy Davis, Craig Brown, Stevie Robinson (I am sure I am missed one or two). 

I suspect that you will put the failings that night squarely at the door of the manager. You have to remember that many of those same players had been playing just as poorly a year prior under Stuart McCall. Ainsworth, McManus, McDonald to name a few. 

I tend to have a soft spot for managers more than I do for players. I think the job of a football manager at a club like Motherwell is a very difficult one. I also think that players get off very lightly at times for not doing their job properly. My opinion (as one who has absolutely no inside track to the goings on at FP) is that there were a few players at the time that were doing a lot of talking and disrupting behind the scenes and not performing on the park. Les Hutchison suggested as much when Baraclough left.

My overriding feeling is that fans are very good at coming to a conclusion very early on about managers and then building the facts that back that conclusion up round about that argument. As an example a fan of Baraclough might look at his overall record with NI U21's and come to the conclusion that he has done a good job. A critic might just look at the last half dozen matches where the stats don't look as good. A fan might praise a win over Spain, a critic might think it was just luck.

Who is right? The fan or the critic. The beauty of football is that nobody really knows. Baraclough might be a superstar or he might be a dud. He may also just simply be an average manager doing the best he can. 

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4 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Ha! Includes results like beating Spain in Spain and.....what else?  Unless you think 1-0 wins over the likes of Slovakia or Bulgaria are noteworthy.

By the way stats from the match; Possession - Spain 75%  N. Ireland 25%.  Corners - Spain 22  N. Ireland 0.  Shots - Spain 25  N. Ireland 1. 

Fair play to them for winning but it was a fluke.

 

We get it. You hate Baraclough - but now you are starting to sound bitter and petty.

Running a U21 team isn't like running a club team  - you are stuck with the players you have, and have to grind out the results. (And how do you think any team has beat Spain recently? By dominating possession against the Tiki-taka?).

Like domestic U21 the role is as much about developing players and tactics so they are ready for the step up to the senior squad. The NI recruitment team thinks he did a great a job and has the credentials to continue that with the seniors. Given they have qualified for more major tourneys than Scotland recently, maybe they know a bit more about what they are looking for than you (or I) do.

 

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1 hour ago, star sail said:

These games happen. I have sat through 'the worst humiliation I've ever seen as a Well fan' about 100 times under ever manager we have had since the mid 1980's. I have watched turgid dross under Davie Hay, Tommy McLean, Alex McLeish, Terry Butcher, Maurice Malpas, Harri Kampman, Jim Gannon, Mark McGhee, Billy Davis, Craig Brown, Stevie Robinson (I am sure I am missed one or two). 

I suspect that you will put the failings that night squarely at the door of the manager. You have to remember that many of those same players had been playing just as poorly a year prior under Stuart McCall. Ainsworth, McManus, McDonald to name a few. 

I tend to have a soft spot for managers more than I do for players. I think the job of a football manager at a club like Motherwell is a very difficult one. I also think that players get off very lightly at times for not doing their job properly. My opinion (as one who has absolutely no inside track to the goings on at FP) is that there were a few players at the time that were doing a lot of talking and disrupting behind the scenes and not performing on the park. Les Hutchison suggested as much when Baraclough left.

My overriding feeling is that fans are very good at coming to a conclusion very early on about managers and then building the facts that back that conclusion up round about that argument. As an example a fan of Baraclough might look at his overall record with NI U21's and come to the conclusion that he has done a good job. A critic might just look at the last half dozen matches where the stats don't look as good. A fan might praise a win over Spain, a critic might think it was just luck.

Who is right? The fan or the critic. The beauty of football is that nobody really knows. Baraclough might be a superstar or he might be a dud. He may also just simply be an average manager doing the best he can. 

Happens all the time. We had a post on here at one time stating Robinson had lost the dressing room. Obviously rubbish but after a bad run of results the timing was right to include it.

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My over riding memory of the Morton game was hearing the line up and texting my mates saying it was an extremely bold team selection and that Barra would either be a hero over it or end up getting his jotters!

Unfortunately the performance was so bad and the atmosphere afterwards so poisonous there was ever only going to be one result.

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He's taking a long time to decide what to do.

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19 minutes ago, mfc88 said:

I notice that jordan white has been bumped to number 9, maybe reading too much into it but indicative that long is probably away IMO.

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/squad/first-team/

Pretty sure Long is away but the change of number might be more to do with Dunne staying on as he was number 18, I think. Probably gave White his pick of the numbers that were left...

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26 minutes ago, mfc said:

Hastie in talks about returning on loan according to tomorrows sun.

Well, that would certainly split opinion. Maybe I'm wrong but he seemed to be less effective before he left. Was that because his mind was elsewhere or other teams had him sussed?

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9 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Well, that would certainly split opinion. Maybe I'm wrong but he seemed to be less effective before he left. Was that because his mind was elsewhere or other teams had him sussed?

From what I saw, his loan career followed a similar trajectory to his brief first team stint with us. Got off to a flyer, then after a few games was relegated to sub, then was dropped from the first team.

Not sure if it was being sussed or something else.

Personally, I've nothing against the guy. He probably made a poor decision from a footballing perspective, but not difficult to see why he was tempted. Whether he can be coached into varying his play and picking his crosses is something better minds than me would need to assess.

My general gripe would be taking players on loan from a club in the same league - but that is a different topic.

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My only question is, can he improve the team? 

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1 hour ago, weeyin said:

My general gripe would be taking players on loan from a club in the same league - but that is a different topic.

A very important gripe. Given that he’s a Rangers player it would be a no from me and the wage should go to somebody else.

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Not a massive fan of taking players on loan from teams in the same league and given the way that his move was perceived by fans, I can't see a move for Hastie being universally popular. Having said that, you could see taking Hastie on loan as mugging Rangers to an extent.  They pay us a fee for a player and we still end up with the player. Just a thought...

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Assuming that we end up in the same half as Rangers post split. Before a ball is kicked, not withstanding any injuries, dips in form etc. A player won’t be eligible to play in over 10% of our league matches.  That would indicate to me this isn’t a deal that is beneficial to our football club or building a team for the season. 
 

Also I am sure Hastie is no doubt good mates with many of the current team. But unfortunately like it or not will not be accepted by most likely at least 50% of the fan base. Just creates a poisonous atmosphere with team mates/ manager having to come out in the media to back their teammate etc. Puts the clubs fans in a bad light in the media and in the ground (whenever the crowds are allowed) etc. 
 

Would he improve the squad/ team?Perhaps yes. Worth the baggage? I would say a firm no! Perhaps the club gambling on the fact of a closed door start to the season. If he were to get off to a strong start before crowds are allowed back, it may have softened some people’s stance by then.  Ultimately I think its a hard sell for all parties and I don’t think the lad is worthy of the effort. 

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Hastie back would allow Rangers to see if he can cut it in this leauge .

If he does well ........thanks very much Motherwell for spending valubale time and effort developing our player . We will have him back now.

If hes not as good as we thought...... thanks very much Motherwell for wasting your valubale time trying to develope one of our players , we can cut our losses now and get rid.

Better developing our own players for us. Loan signing a young player from a team in same leauge doesnt make sense and not fair on our players who are commited to the club.

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If we have exhausted all other avenues to bring in a winger, or don't have one coming through the youth ranks, I wouldn't be against hastie coming back on loan.

I don't like the idea of developing a rangers player either, but its an area we need to strengthen and hastie will do that, plus its a low risk move for both parties in that he knows a lot of the players, management and backroom staff... Rangers are always going to have good players regardless, and if its not us developing him it'll be someone else anyway.

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