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Relegation, how bad would it be?

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14 minutes ago, underboyleheating said:

Good to know, In Weeyin we trust. We are staying up! :woop:

It's the "running from a bear" philosophy.

You don't have to be faster than the bear - just faster than your slowest mate.

Same thing here. We just need to be better than 2 other teams.

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I am pretty confident we will stay up and i will even stick my neck out and say we will be a top 6 club next season in the Premier division.

No doom and gloom from me just balls of steel and a wee bit of faith!

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I've never seen us outside the top flight but here's my two cents anyway.

It feels like there's not really much in-between. In the best case scenario we go down, scud the rest of the league, get some decent away days and come straight back up and it's like we've never been away. Would I occasionally take that over another season of bottom 6 humdrum? Absolutely.

The alternative is an absolute hellscape though. Losing any remotely promising players to the likes of Killie or St Johnstone, getting pumped out the cups by the same teams and spending a decade at least in the Championship/League One? Get that to absolute fuck.

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I will say though, a season where we end up in a league with Accies, Airdrie, St Mirren, Morton and Partick would be fucking incredible.

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Unbelievable to think the last time we set foot in Fir Park we were pushing for Europe, the next time we get in we could very well be playing in the Championship. Like others have said the main worry is if we go down we go the way of Partick Thistle and Dunfermline rather than push for instant promotion. With a full squad I would be confident of staying up but it seems with each passing fixture we end up with another body out rather than seeing someone return. We have been easily brushed aside by teams near us in recent weeks let's hope by some miracle we can pluck a result out the hat on Wednesday to give us some breathing space.

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in reality we need to see fighting/battling qualities from the starting 11. 

If fit I believe we have 7. (Kelly, Mugabi, Gallagher, Carrol, Campbell, O'hara & Watt)

Time for others to prove themselves  

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6 hours ago, Yassin said:

I will say though, a season where we end up in a league with Accies, Airdrie, St Mirren, Morton and Partick would be fucking incredible.

Not if we were getting pumped every week it wouldn't.....

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Every low point we have there is the usual knee-jerk reactions on websites about how its the worst squad in years etc etc. But on this occasion I feel it is genuinely a bit different. Anger has to be directed at this current squad who are contributing absolutely nothing to this football club. I have never seen a bigger bunch of passengers in my time watching the club. Baraclough's squad had some talent in it. Hell even Malpas's squad had some talent and fight in it as the same players went on to win third the following season under Muttley McGhee. The present squad feels very much like what I associate largely with Killie and Hibs about 6 years ago -  lacklustre and just here for a job, nothing more. If I was within the club hierarchy I would have the club staff list pinned to the dressing room wall as it isn't the players jobs at risk - they can feck off and find other clubs - our staffing that would be trimmed is what is at stake, these guys may struggle given the economic crisis that is inbound is going to make the 2009 credit crunch look like a lottery win. 

Only draw of relegation I can think of is the opportunity to play and absolutely scud Airdrie if they somehow come up to the championship. On the other hand I see Dundee Utd as the club most similar to ourselves in terms of club size, resources, achievement potential etc and it took them a few years to come back up. That's what concerns me the most

As has been said above Motherwell have had it very comfortable pretty much my whole life. Maybe that spark that we have that has set us apart from other teams our size is going out? The past 20 years there has always been a core group of experienced players passionate for the club with a good relationship with the support. That isn't there at the moment (that's going to take years to rebuild) and that's perhaps why this low feels a bit different to the other ups and downs.  That said, I don't think we will go down. The media seem to be going all out on Kilmarnock at the moment.



 

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Any time a team is struggling the knee-jerk reaction is complaining about "lack of passion", "lack of commitment", "no leadership", etc.

99 times out of 100, however, it's just a lack of confidence; often after some bad luck and/or a small run of bad results. You don't need to look any further than Livi to see how the same core of players can turn things around in a short space of time.

One of the best players I have ever seen at Fir Park is Joe Wark. He was the captain the first time I saw us relegated, and he was the captain for the years we struggled to get out of the First Division. If you ever wanted an role model for commitment, passion and leadership, he was the man.

We were still mince that relegation season.

 

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Stephen O'Donnell in the record today "If we don't win it then it's no dramas".

I know I'm only quoting one line of the story but that has horrified me. If that's your approach then I'd forget about football altogether and pursue a career which is not in competitive sport.

 

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1 hour ago, StirlingDosser said:

Stephen O'Donnell in the record today "If we don't win it then it's no dramas".

I know I'm only quoting one line of the story but that has horrified me. If that's your approach then I'd forget about football altogether and pursue a career which is not in competitive sport.

 

I seen that as well and was quite surprised by it, I mean after tomorrows game we will have played a game more than two of our rivals and this fixture presents us with a great chance as this is our game in hand over Killie, it would be massive if we could get a positive result. This has been a massively frustrating season and its been full of dramas for all the wrong reasons, I'm fed up with my wife asking why their is skid marks on my Y fronts its been that strenuous.  Obviously I hope we win by any means necessary but the whole Covid stuff would make it all the sweeter as these points were already in the bank.

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Can't believe no one's mentioned the P word - I for one am so proud of our club for being in the top flight for so long. 

As far as "charmed life" goes, I discount the Falkirk one because we invested in the ground, whereas others didn't so fair play to us!

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8 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Fighting/battling qualities? O’Hara? That’s a bit of a stretch...

 

Give it a rest fritz , there are many worse players than O Hara in the squad .

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38 minutes ago, well_said said:

Give it a rest fritz , there are many worse players than O Hara in the squad .

There may be, but, not asked to do the job expected of O’Hara. Hasn’t the discipline to play as deep sitting midfield offering protection to the back four, hasn’t the discipline to maintain positional sense in defence. So I’m not sure where the fighting/battling qualities the original poster mentioned come from?

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1 hour ago, Onthefringes said:

There may be, but, not asked to do the job expected of O’Hara. Hasn’t the discipline to play as deep sitting midfield offering protection to the back four, hasn’t the discipline to maintain positional sense in defence. So I’m not sure where the fighting/battling qualities the original poster mentioned come from?

Discipline and battling qualities arent the same thing though surely?

The last game at St Mirren Park, O'Hara was pivotal in us getting something out of the game. He got stuck in despite getting an early yellow card.

If he had been in the team on Saturday I dont believe we would have capitulated the way we did.

He, Campbell and Watt are the only 3 players we have who I would trust not to hide when we are up against it.

Id maybe add Maguire to that despite his detractors. He should never have been subbed on Saturday.

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47 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

He, Campbell and Watt are the only 3 players we have who I would trust not to hide when we are up against it.

Id maybe add Maguire to that despite his detractors. He should never have been subbed on Saturday.

O'Hara is not a defensive midfielder. He's not a box to box type either. Essentially he's a central defender or right back. Campbell is normally a hard working battler but has largely gone AWOL in the past few months. Why I don't know. 

Barry Maguire? No worse than others in the past week or two but no better either. For me, the jury is still out on him,but he's young and hasn't had the benefit of an old head next to him to provide support.

Having said all that, each of the above 3 could justifiably say that those around them haven't helped in other words the mix is all wrong. 

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1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Discipline and battling qualities arent the same thing though surely?

The last game at St Mirren Park, O'Hara was pivotal in us getting something out of the game. He got stuck in despite getting an early yellow card.

If he had been in the team on Saturday I dont believe we would have capitulated the way we did.

He, Campbell and Watt are the only 3 players we have who I would trust not to hide when we are up against it.

Id maybe add Maguire to that despite his detractors. He should never have been subbed on Saturday.

Granted discipline and battling qualities are not the same thing, not the point I was making. Definitely no evidence of either in my opinion.

He got stuck in? That should be a given.

Unsure how anybody can come to the conclusion he’d have saved us from any capitulation on Saturday.

Not to hide? Well, certainly offered little influence on games by and large, Campbell has been so far removed from his natural game for so long this season, it’s been painful at times.

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54 minutes ago, well_said said:

I'd rather have O Hara on my side than the posing pansy Polworth.

Poor analogy. Both different types of player so it’s a notion easily dismissed.

Running around a lot doesn’t make you an asset. Now, running around a lot, tracking others, improving positional sense & not being caught in possession may, just may convince me he has attributes.

Some folk are just easily pleased.

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1 hour ago, Onthefringes said:

Poor analogy. Both different types of player so it’s a notion easily dismissed.

Running around a lot doesn’t make you an asset. Now, running around a lot, tracking others, improving positional sense & not being caught in possession may, just may convince me he has attributes.

Some folk are just easily pleased.

So then , what type of player is O Hara in your opinion.

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7 hours ago, weeyin said:

Any time a team is struggling the knee-jerk reaction is complaining about "lack of passion", "lack of commitment", "no leadership", etc.

99 times out of 100, however, it's just a lack of confidence; 

 

I agree 100% with this. I think what we see as lack of commitment, lack of effort, poor attitude is simply a lack of confidence. I think Long and Polworth are in that category almost certainly this season and it does not take much to filter through a team. It is a vicious circle that can be difficult to get out of. 

Think of playing a game of 5 a side with your mates. One week everything comes off, you see passes clearly and make decisions without thought. The next week small hesitations make you look like a clown. 

Multiple that feeling by a factor of 10/100 and you have the pressures of the professional football player  who in fractions of seconds is making decisions than can make him look like a superstar or a total dud. 

The beauty of football is that a fraction of a second can cultivate a moment of genius or a career changing mistake. They say that dreams last just a few seconds. In football, in these blinks of an eye, one players dream can be another players nightmare. 

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2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Barry Maguire? No worse than others in the past week or two but no better either. For me, the jury is still out on him,but he's young and hasn't had the benefit of an old head next to him to provide support.

Personally I've seen enough of Maguire to say thank you and good luck.

When he came through as a central defender 4 years ago he was too slow. Now he's in midfield he's still too slow and wants too much time on the ball. 

Given he's had several years around the edges of the squad Im stunned we extended his contract.  

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2 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Granted discipline and battling qualities are not the same thing, not the point I was making. Definitely no evidence of either in my opinion.

He got stuck in? That should be a given.

Unsure how anybody can come to the conclusion he’d have saved us from any capitulation on Saturday.

Not to hide? Well, certainly offered little influence on games by and large, Campbell has been so far removed from his natural game for so long this season, it’s been painful at times.

If you dont mind me asking, what are battling qualities if its not "getting stuck in"? 

Are you seriously saying having O'Hara available on Saturday with all the players we have out would not have improved our chances? Whether it be playing him at centre back or in midfield it would undoubtedly provided us with more bite than we had, particularly with the absence of Campbell at the same time.

These guys may not be having good seasons, but by god we miss them when they arent available.

Im not saying for a minute its about individual players, but all these little things are what makes the difference to the collective.

GA needs to find out who are the players he can trust and get them all on the field in whatever formation will work and stop us being so easy to beat.

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