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What you need to ask yourself is what was your realistic expectation of the clubs position before the season started? For me I was just hoping we might get top six or at least be out of trouble at the tail end of the season. I based that on thinking that Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts would all improve and make reaching the top six harder. I think we all thought that to be honest.

Now we are 5th after 26 games and yes its been a terrible run we have been on and due to the results since Xmas the league outside the top 3 has bunched up together and means you could easily drop a few places very quickly in the coming weeks.

So after those 26 games we are still 5th and are still in the Scottish Cup. Its not all a disaster.

For me the main worry is the style of play and that GA doesn't seem to know what his best team and formation is, this could be down to the form of players and mixing it up due to the number of games. I also feel there is a lack of fight amongst the squad right now but that also could be down confidence.

I also feel we should have done our upmost to keep Watt. He galvanised the team and is in the form of his life, we were never going to have the budget to replace him so should have paid him what he wanted. That for me is the biggest mistake the club have made this season.

I am not sure what these 'problems run way deeper than the first team manager' are? I mean we have posted record finacial results, sold more season tickets than ever in years and the club are doing loads to improve the matchday experience. Not really sure what people expect on here to be honest.

 

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11 hours ago, Yabba's Turd said:

What view is that? That a football club has put more emphasis on social media than winning games? 

I was meaning more that our scouting/transfer policies and youth development need seriously overhauled, but there certainly are times when there is, or at least seems to be, a lot of emphasis placed on the social media side of things.

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8 minutes ago, MJC_mkII said:

I was meaning more that our scouting/transfer policies and youth development need seriously overhauled, but there certainly are times when there is, or at least seems to be, a lot of emphasis placed on the social media side of things.

Does it though? I mean look at the recent years. 

Youth Development: Turnbull, Hastie, Scott and Campbell all left for millions. We now have Cornelius coming though this year - not that bad a return to be honest.

Signing Policy: Again I am not sure what you expect here, are any other teams outwith Celtic and Rangers signing top class players everytime? No they are not, and any that do really well end up leaving. Fuchs at Dundee Utd is a very good example of this. 

Bringing in top quality talent to SPL teams is really hard. Most don't want to come and can earn more anywhere in Europe. Thats why we end up with players who blow hot and cold - but the rest of rhe SPL does too. Thats why there is about 5 points seperating 4 to 10th

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Hastie joined Rangers on a pre-contract so we didn’t get any transfer fee for him after letting him run down his contract. Fortunately Turnbull did sign a new deal in early 2019 as he too was nearing the end of his contract that year. And Campbell, was his fee not ‘undisclosed’? Happy to be corrected on that one if I’m wrong.

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3 minutes ago, MJC_mkII said:

Hastie joined Rangers on a pre-contract so we didn’t get any transfer fee for him after letting him run down his contract. Fortunately Turnbull did sign a new deal in early 2019 as he too was nearing the end of his contract that year. And Campbell, was his fee not ‘undisclosed’? Happy to be corrected on that one if I’m wrong.

We certainly got money for all players leaving. I am not meaning we got millions per player, I mean collectivley they have made the club millions.

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38 minutes ago, johnstone said:

Does it though? I mean look at the recent years. 

Youth Development: Turnbull, Hastie, Scott and Campbell all left for millions. We now have Cornelius coming though this year - not that bad a return to be honest.

Signing Policy: Again I am not sure what you expect here, are any other teams outwith Celtic and Rangers signing top class players everytime? No they are not, and any that do really well end up leaving. Fuchs at Dundee Utd is a very good example of this. 

Bringing in top quality talent to SPL teams is really hard. Most don't want to come and can earn more anywhere in Europe. Thats why we end up with players who blow hot and cold - but the rest of rhe SPL does too. Thats why there is about 5 points seperating 4 to 10th

I agree with everything you say but the big worry for me is that since the U20 League got ditched youth development seems to have been sidelined.

Who have we produced since the 'Craigan' team?  

Cornelius might come through, his last couple of performances have shown promise, but I don't think that's enough over the time period.  Especially when the standard of the league is so poor. All those youth players came through 3 or 4 years ago.

I know I'm a broken record but producing youth has to be THE central focus of a club like Motherwell, both in terms of having players in the squad worth watching and the financial benefits of selling on.  If we don't we're only going to see the sort of slow decline that players like Campbell, Turnball and Scott jolted us out of for a while cos 95% of the players we bring in are going to be journey men.  What happens when we need another jolt and there is no one there?

I think it says a lot that we have one striker at the club and there isn't anyone that can move up from the youths and even sit on the bench.

 

 

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1 hour ago, johnstone said:

What you need to ask yourself is what was your realistic expectation of the clubs position before the season started? For me I was just hoping we might get top six or at least be out of trouble at the tail end of the season. I based that on thinking that Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts would all improve and make reaching the top six harder. I think we all thought that to be honest.

Now we are 5th after 26 games and yes its been a terrible run we have been on and due to the results since Xmas the league outside the top 3 has bunched up together and means you could easily drop a few places very quickly in the coming weeks.

So after those 26 games we are still 5th and are still in the Scottish Cup. Its not all a disaster.

For me the main worry is the style of play and that GA doesn't seem to know what his best team and formation is, this could be down to the form of players and mixing it up due to the number of games. I also feel there is a lack of fight amongst the squad right now but that also could be down confidence.

I also feel we should have done our upmost to keep Watt. He galvanised the team and is in the form of his life, we were never going to have the budget to replace him so should have paid him what he wanted. That for me is the biggest mistake the club have made this season.

I am not sure what these 'problems run way deeper than the first team manager' are? I mean we have posted record finacial results, sold more season tickets than ever in years and the club are doing loads to improve the matchday experience. Not really sure what people expect on here to be honest.

 

matt...watt wouldve wanted 4k to stay,  if the reports on his wage at dundee utd are correct

if we start paying one guy much more than rest,  then it would've got out of hand...don't think he was that exceptional that we could him double and more of rest.

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1 hour ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

matt...watt wouldve wanted 4k to stay,  if the reports on his wage at dundee utd are correct

if we start paying one guy much more than rest,  then it would've got out of hand...don't think he was that exceptional that we could him double and more of rest.

Is Liam Kelly not on about £4K a week? Might not be as much as that but I’m sure I read that he was the highest earner by a distance.

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1 hour ago, GrahamH said:

Is Liam Kelly not on about £4K a week? Might not be as much as that but I’m sure I read that he was the highest earner by a distance.

don't know tbf...I would be surprised if anyone is on much more than 2k.

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4 hours ago, MJC_mkII said:

I was meaning more that our scouting/transfer policies and youth development need seriously overhauled, but there certainly are times when there is, or at least seems to be, a lot of emphasis placed on the social media side of things.

The social media grumbling has always confused me. It's not as if we're sending the players out there with cameras instead of running set-piece drills or anything. It's not an "either/or" situation.

We have a really good social media team who manage to keep that side of things really busy. But that has nothing to do with the actual football. Is the answer to tell the social team to stop doing as good a job?

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Think wee need to have a long hard look at ourselves here, apart from the 'Ugly sisters', who hasn't had a bad spell, ours is normally December, but this time round not. The football hasn't been great but if we can find the form we have shown against Hearts and Aberdeen at home in recent games then another run of winning coulb be on the cards. All this moaning and groaning about team selection etc, think it's well known we carry a very bloated squad at this time due to injury and Covid issues. The coming games will set the scene for the rest of the season, but I'd rather have a bad spell when being in top 6 than holding up the league. Remember lads this is Motherwell, we have more downs than ups but we all love supporting them. 

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Slightly different but I see Alan Johnstone has parted company with Queen of South but just wondering if anyone else thinks that  Keith Lasley might be interested , just a thought

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I'd like to see how he does in management. I don't think he has much of a chance with us for the foreseeable, and it looks like he's done all of his badges and stuff.

Also, we can't have a million posts about him coming back if he doesn't leave. Just think, a week where Lasley's OotS wins and GAs Motherwell loses...

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

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I think Alexander has done pretty well overall, but this tactic of bringing on defenders and midfielders for attacking options has to stop. We allowed Aberdeen back into a game they weren't in, and the last ten minutes was nearly disastrous,  only for Kelly to make a great save at the death. It puts everyone on edge including the supporters.

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9 minutes ago, yosemite sam said:

I think Alexander has done pretty well overall, but this tactic of bringing on defenders and midfielders for attacking options has to stop. We allowed Aberdeen back into a game they weren't in, and the last ten minutes was nearly disastrous,  only for Kelly to make a great save at the death. It puts everyone on edge including the supporters.

Yes, we’ve done this in a few games, and it certainly puts everyone on edge. I can see both sides of this though… you can either say we’ve got away with it (such as on Saturday) but Alexander can argue that it’s generally (always?) worked. 

Having said that, in a cup game… if Aberdeen had scored at the death, we’d have had to make more subs in extra time to give us more attacking options to try to win the game… or defend and hang on for penalties… so I thought it especially risky in the Cup.

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2 hours ago, ohwulliewullie said:

Yes, we’ve done this in a few games, and it certainly puts everyone on edge. I can see both sides of this though… you can either say we’ve got away with it (such as on Saturday) but Alexander can argue that it’s generally (always?) worked. 

Having said that, in a cup game… if Aberdeen had scored at the death, we’d have had to make more subs in extra time to give us more attacking options to try to win the game… or defend and hang on for penalties… so I thought it especially risky in the Cup.

Its an impossible call really, if you don't shore up the defensive side of things at the end and lose a goal you get criticised; if you do shore up the defensive side of things and dont lose a goal although its a dodgy time (like saturday) you get criticised. That's why managers get paid the big bucks.

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3 hours ago, yosemite sam said:

I think Alexander has done pretty well overall, but this tactic of bringing on defenders and midfielders for attacking options has to stop. We allowed Aberdeen back into a game they weren't in, and the last ten minutes was nearly disastrous,  only for Kelly to make a great save at the death. It puts everyone on edge including the supporters.

I think it gives everyone the fear as we're generally under pressure from then on in, however I can't recall us actually losing too many late goals? 

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1 hour ago, CoF said:

I think it gives everyone the fear as we're generally under pressure from then on in, however I can't recall us actually losing too many late goals? 

For the most part it has worked. As mentioned above we have not gone on to lose many games / goals once he loads up defence and midfield. As also mentioned it is not conducive to an enjoyable finish in games. As we are pretty much always on the back foot from his subs onwards. 

I do see the logic. How many times have teams who are winning by the odd goal chase another only to concede because they are too open. I listened to the DW podcast with GA and he often mentions how important the result is and not the performance. He likes his teams to outfight the opposition certainly in terms of effort and application.

I have said many times before at the start of last season under Robbo we were dominating teams possession wise and having many more shots on and off target and losing 1-0. Hamilton, Ross C and DDee United all followed that pattern. 

So yes he is a bit of a do not lose type coach but as long as he gets results I will have less problems with such an approach.

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He did also leave himself the option of 2 attacking substitutions should the game have went to extra time, so have to give him credit for not betting it all on stopping them from scoring

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5 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

For the most part it has worked. As mentioned above we have not gone on to lose many games / goals once he loads up defence and midfield. As also mentioned it is not conducive to an enjoyable finish in games. As we are pretty much always on the back foot from his subs onwards. 

I do see the logic. How many times have teams who are winning by the odd goal chase another only to concede because they are too open. I listened to the DW podcast with GA and he often mentions how important the result is and not the performance. He likes his teams to outfight the opposition certainly in terms of effort and application.

I have said many times before at the start of last season under Robbo we were dominating teams possession wise and having many more shots on and off target and losing 1-0. Hamilton, Ross C and DDee United all followed that pattern. 

So yes he is a bit of a do not lose type coach but as long as he gets results I will have less problems with such an approach.

I'm trying to think of when its backfired. Has it yet?

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2 hours ago, wunderwell said:

I'm trying to think of when its backfired. Has it yet?

The St Mirren game in October when we were 2-0 up, He brought on O'Hara for Woolery and Carroll for Slattery at 2-0 and we lost 2 goals in the last 10 minutes. Probably not the best example, but the only one I can think of.....

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Hibs in the Scottish cup last year. 

Pretty sure we tried to hang on, lost a goal and played ET with almost no forwards

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1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

Hibs in the Scottish cup last year. 

Pretty sure we tried to hang on, lost a goal and played ET with almost no forwards

I thought Cole, Long and Watt were all on at the end of the 90 and played for the duration of ET in that one.

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He has been given a two match touchline ban for his red against Hibernian with one suspended until the end of the season.

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18 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

The St Mirren game in October when we were 2-0 up, He brought on O'Hara for Woolery and Carroll for Slattery at 2-0 and we lost 2 goals in the last 10 minutes. Probably not the best example, but the only one I can think of.....

To be fair that had as much to do with the Ref and Linesman being inept arseholes !!

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