LadywellToi Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 The Ravenscraig site of a potential new ground would be no further from Motherwell Cross than what Watling Street or Greenacres is, I don't think anyone can argue they aren't classed as being in Motherwell. Distances from pubs are also irrelevant as I'm sure an aspiring local businessman or chain may see sense in opening a sports bar near the ground. However if one does not spring up then the masterplan showed a road leading into the centre of Ravenscraig through the site of current Ford Evans Halshaw garage. Not too far extrato walk compared to FP. The reason I posted the Wall stadium image was to remind the powers that be who do look through these boards from time to time that there are other alternatives to Falkirk/St Mirren/Accies/Scumtown/Clyde efforts, and to let them know there are some quality solutions that could have fringe benefits from having another sterile ACME Barr Construction stadium. I wouldn't advocate a move from FP for anytime soon, at least 5 years, because at present I don't even want to think where the game and SPL will be then. If the standards in our game both domestically and internationally continue to regress at the rate they have then I hold no hopes. A prudent act as has been suggested may be to carry our a feasibility study of the cost to replace the POD and the East (if not too costly) so when it comes to making the decision whether we move or not we've at least done our homework. If we stay at FP I don't think you'd upset any group of Well fans, however if we do stay then what we have has to be updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 Thank you and it's an extremely valid point which should be considred carefully in the event we do put plans in place for a move. The only part of Ravenscraig which would accomodate a lesser risk is the area directly behind Dalziel Steelworks, still within walking distance from the town centre and local pubs. There s no guarantees about attracting new fans but there is one certainty that those put out by a move will stop going. To simply shrug shoulders and accuse them of being lesser fans is a huge mistake, not to mention insulting. New Douglas Park right next to where the original stadium though, so location can't really be blamed for their poor attendances. Arguably the fact they spent years groundsharing with Clyde and where ever else had a bigger impact, possibly along with the fact it's not that long ago they were a shambles in Division 3 after the players going on strike. That may have had a bit of an affect on crowds too. Not, that I disagree that a poorly planned move to The 'Craig would be disastrous. The most important part of the would, perhaps, be getting the ground as close as possible to the new train station being put in the and having the Leccy Bar and JD's moved up as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 Sorry what I meant with the Hamilton comparison is that no more than 1000 Motherwell fans bother to travel about FOUR miles from our ground to watch us in an away game. Hamilton Accies have a number of reasons for their attendances being poor; the main one being the one you cited about playing in Glasgow, Cumbernauld and Coatbridge where they lost a lot of young fans as they were not allowed to go without their parents. Interestingly a problem fatcalf mentioned. Whilst the scale may not be the same as the Hamilton problem was it is still a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaveli Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 If I remember correctly, I think the "grounds donated for recreational use" argument was put to bed when the Palace Grounds Retail Park was approved. there is still "recreational grounds" at the palace grounds though.. thats how they got round that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 I think what makes this decision additionally difficult is that there several different strands to the debate. It's not just a case of stay or go. It's a traumatic enough thing to consider leaving the old place behind for many but I think its evident in this thread and in previous ones is that to some Ravenscraig is something completely different to Motherwell and so the club would not only be leaving Fir Park but the town itself. I personally get the feeling that it remains only a matter of time so in that respect I really hope there has been extensive research and planning has been going on in the background so that we are well placed when that time comes - be it through costs of staying at FP becoming too much, the land value at FP at hitting an appropriate level or availability of land at Ravenscraig forces a decision; or indeed a combination of them all. How would it go? I really don't know. I'm not so sure there is a direct comparison that we could make, in Scotland at least. There are loads of new stadia to compare proposed designs against (from McDiarmid Park right up to Greenhill Road) , there are several site moves (McDiarmid and Greenhill Road again to choose but two) and even one or two moves to completely new locations (Clyde and Livingston). There are elements of each of those that could be used in comparison but I don't know if any of that would be on a scale to what's being mooted at Ravenscraig. I can see it being something that will only eventually be viewed as a secure or failure a couple of decades down the line if we did move once all your housing, transport links and whatever have settled down and we see what shape the club is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bop Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 there is still "recreational grounds" at the palace grounds though.. thats how they got round that one. Thats got absolutely nothing to do with it, plank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaveli Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 What about when Ravenscraig is all set up we get our dump of a town centre and demolish it build our new stadium there.. least that area would be good for something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 If we were to move to Ravenscraig I personally wouldn't mind as I drive to the games anyway. As for others I'd hope suitable transportation links and watering holes would be put in place quite quickly. The initial pain would be severe but we would take to the new place, pubs, and so on after a while and attach positive feelings and memories etc. to them over time. Wonder how St Mirren fans feel about their new ground now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 Thank you and it's an extremely valid point which should be considred carefully in the event we do put plans in place for a move. The only part of Ravenscraig which would accomodate a lesser risk is the area directly behind Dalziel Steelworks, still within walking distance from the town centre and local pubs. There s no guarantees about attracting new fans but there is one certainty that those put out by a move will stop going. To simply shrug shoulders and accuse them of being lesser fans is a huge mistake, not to mention insulting. Absolutely no intention of insulting genuine fans Matt, and apologise if anyone thought that. I quite accept that there are a few fans who simply could not travel a few hundred metres further away. As I said, I can't see any way of avoiding that unless the club was to put on transport for such fans - that may be a goer and worth investigating. What I can't accept is current fans, who could perfectly easily travel, being unwilling to move an additional 1km or 1.5km because its a bit further away from Jack Daniels or their front door. When, not if, we move to Ravenscraig, it would involve a move of perhaps 1km or 1.25 kms, possibly outwith the Motherwell boundary (I don't have a clue as to the precise location incidentally). On the other hand if we could secure a brownfield site somewhere in North Motherwell say 3kms away, would that be ok because it was within the town boundary? By doing that the club would still stay within the historic boundary but be over double the distance away from FP, thereby inconveniencing even more fans, who could not travel. I don't have a problem with the club moving 1 or 2 kms but I would serious misgivings about us moving to a location like Newhouse. We mustn't forget either that FP is not our first ground. Some folk would have been put out and disadvantaged when we moved there in the early 20th century. I don't doubt that if the club remains at FP long term it will lead to our demise. We can't have that. Comparisons with Hamilton is invalid as that was an entirely different situation, geographically and chronologically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted October 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Just as an aside, Motherwell aren't in business to keep Jack Daniels, The Fir Park Club (especially), The New Century et all alive. Embrace the matchday experience? Sensible approach by the club would have a major revenue stream generated by having the support on site earlier, taking the Cooper suite idea to the next level (this isn't a lager or service is better in Daniels debate) with provision of a supporters space that offers everything the others will and more. Just think, adding to the coffers may add to existing playing budget? Simple logistics? Fanciful notion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaveli Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Thats got absolutely nothing to do with it, plank. explain how it doesn't ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fi2810 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 The Palace grounds had to have leisure facilities in it to get the planning permission, Bop, because the ground had orignally donated to the people of the town for that purpose. That is what it has to do with things. Simples. And the argument about the distance, the college is about 1 km from Fir Park now and I would think the Stadium would be near the sport centre for extra training facilities. That is a good km further on again. The nearest bus stop is out across from the IMO car wash so it is a good wee walk in. But on the other hand they might run shuttle buses or something on matchdays for a small fare. I think the distance involved would possibly affect the likes of the club shop and the learning centre which are currently used every day at Fir Park. A lot of people would be put off by the distance if they didn't have a car. But oersonally I would have thought the old college grounds would have been ideal as this is right beside FP. You could have had one lot of supporters going in Dalzell Drive, and the other going in from Fir Park Street. Also there would have been loads of parking space within that piece of land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 The Palace grounds had to have leisure facilities in it to get the planning permission, Bop, because the ground had orignally donated to the people of the town for that purpose. That is what it has to do with things. Simples.The council completely ignored the terms of the bequest in the name of profit. They allowed ground that was donated to the people to be used for a retail park. The leisure facilities are a red herring, because the bequest didn't allow for *any* commercial enterprise to be built on that land. The was the whole point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaveli Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 awel. its better now it has a KFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyslappy Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Before there is a move surely we have to get the actual league sorted out. that way we can identify cash sources and plan accordingly. Will the old firm move will it be 12,16,18 teams etc. No point in building a new stadia if only 3000 will turn up on average. As far as the travel goes buses should be put on by the club for a fee more money and there should be facilities at the stadia for a bevie and food again run by the club. Get folk in and maximise as much revenue as we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VWBug Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 One thing that I haven't yet seen mentioned is the future of the existing Motherwell town centre. I have always believed that the development of Ravenscraig would be the begining of a merger between Motherwell and Wishaw with the Ravenscraig incorporating the new town centre. Such a merger would mean that the area could then apply for City status if Motherwell college could become a University. If the Town centre does move then relocating to Ravenscraig would be an ideal location for the new City club. I know that there are lots of maybe's and what if's but the area is already one of the most populated areas in the country and far enough away from Glasgow to be a city in its own right. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted October 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 think the distance involved would possibly affect the likes of the club shop and the learning centre which are currently used every day at Fir Park. A lot of people would be put off by the distance if they didn't have a car. Age old argument for having a facility in the current town centre where Motherwell merchandise has been in short supply for many a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 This may be a daft question and may have been covered before but what is stopping the building of a new ground on the current site? Ground sharing with Accies or Airdrie for a season would not been the end of the world and it would keep The Well in its spiritual home. I think that Fir Park Street is about as cool as as a venue gets for a football ground because of firstly the name and secondly the nostalgic throw back to British Football grounds of old that are slowly disappearing. Something that architecturally blended old with new and allowed us to stay where we are would be perfect would it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 i dont see what the travel problem is, they will have car parks and im almost certain they will open a new train station to accomodate, and as for the fir park club and JD's, maybe a shuttle bus could a an idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 This may be a daft question and may have been covered before but what is stopping the building of a new ground on the current site? Because the money we get for selling Fir Park is what will (for the most part) pay for the new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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