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After the Dundee Utd match, which we won comfortable, all I heard on the way out of the stadium was fans moaning about certain individual players. After the Aberdeen match there was a ridiculous amount booing like we were in relegation battle. The negativity from a certain element of our support seems like it's the reason they go to the games. We are in a 4 game run with two matches against the Old Firm. People need to get some perspective. There's far too many people in the support that are more interested in heaping pressure on players and managers so that they feeling like they are affecting decisions at the club, rather than actually supporting the team.

I was starting to find some sympathy/agreement with your views today......but that's just fucked it 🤣

Celtic dominated and deserved the win but for all their possession they didn't exactly tear us apart. Their goals came from poor basic defending and an individual error and it's this that's really holding us back this season. The goalkeeper and back four just aren't on the same level as last seasons personnel. O'Donnell had an Indian summer last season but he's done. Paulsen isn't the keeper Ward was and his distribution is no where near as good. Moormann and whoever he's playing along side aren't McGinn/Welsh level. Goals change the whole dynamic of the match and we are losing too many opening goals and goals at crucial stages of the match. There are also areas that, to be fair, haven't been addressed since the Kettlewell era, specifically right back and striker. That said I think our support could do more to help the team through a transitional period. Apparently it only took four games for the toxic element in our support to stick their heads up again.

I'd probably believe the whole outdated "he's never played the game, so he doesn't have a clue" angle if our team was made up of "good honest laddies" who "run their socks off", but it isn't. It's made up of players who have been, for the most part, brought in because they understand the modern, progressive style of football we're looking to implement. They should be familiar with the type of coaching they're getting, and the modern analytical approach. And that includes a modern coach whose resume isn't built on playing for Luton Town, Bristol City, or any of the middling to lower-level clubs we have up here. What we're going through is absolutely a process. We've lost a fair amount of our best players in the summer. We've had to replace them with new players, and unlike last year, when everything clicked and our purchases paid off big time mostly, we're not seeing as easy a transition this time around. It was always bound to happen, in my opinion. What we did last season is basically unsustainable for a club our size, but some fans are insisting on comparing the current team and manager to one of the best teams and managers we've probably ever seen at the club in modern times. Remember back when Kettlewell was manager? And fans were saying that they simply expected a team on the park who can at least try to play some attacking football, give us something to be excited about, and look to challenge for top six? That's what we have. We were taken apart today by a team that has the resources and ability to bring players like Jota off the bench. Celtic were on their game, and could easily have taken four or five off us. If they play like that against the teams around us, they'll likely hand out a fair few hammerings. But at least we somewhat gave it a shot. I remember watching us under previous managers just sit back and hope to grab something. Today we at least had some flashes of football to watch, and a team that tried to do something. It didn't work out, but that's how it goes. In short, the football isn't anywhere near as eye-bleedingly bad as it has been, and we're still one of the better sides to watch in the league. I'm interested in seeing how the new players eventually settle in, see who makes the cut, see who really grasps the opportunity to replicate what others have done before them and win a big move, and see who will become a quiz question in 10 years time. At least watching Motherwell is enjoyable again. I'm liking how we're playing. Add in some decent results and we're all good.

I can’t remember the last time I left a game early but here I am on my couch. clueless selection, Sparrow isn’t a right back and O’Donnell isn’t a centre half. Knight-Lebel gets a game for Canada but can’t get into this side and worst of all Vogt looks like he’s won a competition to get into this side and could justifiably have been taken off after 30 minutes, his only contribution was getting melted by the ball. We are determined to go down the right in spite of Longelo being our most direct attacking threat and even when he’s in acres of space there is no desire at all to get the ball out to him. Very worrying.

Whoever put a smiley laughing emoji face on this comment is in for a rude awakening.

This team will lose to Kilmarnock next week as well, so anyone trying to take comfort in that fact that it’s Celtic we’re playing today and they’re better than us is in for a rude awakening when we head to Ayrshire next Saturday.

I did not see the game today so I don't know just how bad it was but there are a few things that would make me think that there is somewhat of an overreaction here: 1. MJC and Wellfan are cheerleading the Manager out rhetoric which they have done with some glee with pretty much every single manager we have had. 2. Two of this 4 game Armageddon run has involved the Old Firm. Rangers are on a 6 game unbeaten run and Celtic were always going to react after their OF humbling. I still believe Celtic will win the league if MON has his eye back on the ball. 3. Much as we hate to admit it the Dundee defeat was against a good side that are clearly in form just now. There has to be some perspective that we have no right to beat these teams just because JBA was our manager last year. 4. The Aberdeen result was a bit of a freak result. 4 shots, 4 goals. There is no doubt however that this particular game did rock our confidence somewhat. I see MJC calling for Steve Clarke. When are we going to realise that the old Scottish ways of playing football died in the 1980's. We are miles behind the rest of Europe both at club level and internationally. The WC was a complete failure. Motherwell have at least tried to break the mould and did so spectacularly last term with JBA. I applaud what the club has tried to do this year. It may still work but if it doesn't we can at least see the rationale behind the decision making. Our situation reminds me somewhat of Ian Cathro at Hearts. That experiment did not work, not because Cathro was a poor manager, as he has since proved but because the environment was not conducive to him being successful in Scottish football. I hope at least, that AJ is at least provided the opportunity to show what he can do despite the default position of a minority of the support.

Now you are just taking the piss

That’s what you said about the last time we managed to reach the Scottish Cup Final under Robinson, who you were very vocal in being negative about and heaping pressure on as I remember. But now you’re getting up on your high horse again about supporters voicing legitimate concerns about the current team, manager and the performances which have brought about four losses in a row with very little to be positive about?? Just like your passionate defence of Graham Alexander and the shite he was serving up and your jumping on Stuart Kettlewell’s bandwagon after he opened his arse and spewed nonsense about the support? Contrary much?

The guy we should have went for was Valakari.

I'll give any player support that takes to the field for us but in all honesty, Vogt really shouldn't play for us again. Not fit enough and looked burst after half an hour, not up to the level and looked generally uninterested. I don't know what to say about Paulsen. Looked extremely suspect at the first goal but then kept us in it several times but the damage is already done. I think it's harsh to say there were no pass marks however. Said ran the show for us when he came on and I thought Palmer Holden led the line well on his own despite having very little to work with.

Sparrow may have been getting roasted but Vogts offered him no cover on our right side. Every meaningful attack from Celtic came down that side. Neither wonder Tierney got man of the match. He had the freedom of Fir Park. If I had taken his place I would have got man of the match.

We need to sack this guy quickly. If people cant see that they are blind.

This team has absolutely no identity and nothing of any note to offer. That ultimately comes down to the manager.

He sends the same 11 out for the 2nd half then 15 mins in Celtic get a 2nd and he hooks Vogt. Why was he sent out 2nd half in the first place. I think this manager is starting to show that he’s a fraud and I think the players have worked that out too.

Harsh but fair

I don't think there's many giving us a chance today but what we do want is a performance that gives us belief we are heading in right direction. COYW

I hope we can get a great result tomorrow but just a reminder we were 2nd bottom in November last year and things improved. Keep the faith

More importantly, if we bin him any time soon, how easy will it be to find a replacement of JBA's quality? One thing you notice about clubs that have a quick trigger finger when it comes to managers is that it becomes progressively more difficult to convince high-quality candidates to fill the role. Let's say we lose to Killie and the board send him packing, as I've seen a few on here saying could happen (it obviously won't, but let's play along for now). What does the board say to potential new managers when they rightfully ask, "You brought the last guy in and gave him ten games to get up to speed before binning him. He came to Scotland from Europe, uprooted his life and that of his family, tried to implement a way of playing, and he got zero time to really do that. Why would I risk my reputation on that kind of approach and job?" There's a reason why we are now attracting players like Jardell Kanga, Lukas Fadinger, and Elijah Just instead of Conor Wilkinson, Josh Morris & Rolando Aarons. And it's not because they're coming here with the expectations of playing under a manager who played the game for lower-league English teams, or who set up to be "formidable" and hard to beat. It's because of our entire approach, which includes being known as a club that gives managers the time required to show they can either do the job, or they can't. I can't recall the last manager we sacked who could reasonably have said they didn't get time. Our track record there is good. Alfred Johansson might not be the guy for the job. Or he might be. But ten games in is absolutely too early to make that decision. He'll get until after Christmas for sure, then we'll take a look. For me, I'm looking for us to be playing some decent football and in the discussion for top six around that time. If not, then we'll need to look and see what's going on.

I too was disappointed by the booing at halftime and even more so when Vogt was eventually substituted. As a support we really need to get behind the team and the manager. Vogt isn't going to get any better if the fans apply that kind of pressure, and the manager and other players won't perform to the best of their abilities either if the fans are on their backs. It was another poor performance, with a poor team selection and lack of any of the intensity that AJ frequently mentions, but let's get behind them, and maybe they will turn things around against Killie next week.

Dundee fans were saying all this same stuff 10 games into Pressleys reign . Its absolutely ludicrous to think of changing manager right now... which will never happen anyway.

To be fair we’re a million miles of where we started this season never mind comparing to last . that I think is the more concerning factor - the further we go with the so mentioned ‘transition period’ the worse we become . I don’t believe there’s an exe to grind about who the manager is - he was very warmly received - what many of us don’t like is the loss of identifiable game plan . we need to see significantly better performances

With respect, I think we are. Results wise you're right, although we are conceding more goals. Performance wise though, we could see progression and what JBA was trying to do. There's none of that this season. For the life of me, I can't see any emerging or established style of play. Where are we heading style wise?

Thats exactly it for me. I'm not calling for AJ to be fired but the alarm bells are now ringing out loudly. Next Saturday will be a big game for him and us. Given the significant changes in personnel, I was expecting a drop off in form as the new players settled in. I also expected to see a SLIGHT change in playing style. However, what we're now witnessing is less possession; lower work rate; less organisation; no high press; and an over reliance on long high balls. Like Prestwickwell, I just can't identify any particular style of play from AJ. Unlike JBA's early tenure, I just can't see what we're trying to do. There's no pattern to it. I was expecting to see some progression and improvement after more time on the training ground, but this simply isn't the case. If anything we're going backwards. Playing devil's advocate, maybe we were more successful at the start of the season as AJ didn't have the time or opportunity to deviate much from JBA's established style. Once he started to introduce his own methods and ideas then things began to go awry. Even the form of our best players has tailed off. At our level, we invested a fair bit cash in new players over the summer and it doesn't seem to be paying off. Some talented players, for sure, but maybe they aren't being played to their strengths? Maybe some were overrated? Not all signings succeed of course. Something somewhere just doesn't seem right although I've seen suggestions elsewhere about that. One thing is for sure, rightly or wrongly, the fans will have the final say, as they always do.

I received a jolt and not a pleasant one when I read the team sheet. Sparrow at RB again, no Knight-Lebel, Vogt starting and a defensive looking midfield, including an out of position Hodge as it turned out. In the round, we shot ourselves in the foot pre match with that line up. As for the game it quickly became apparent, for obvious reasons, that Celtic were targeting our right side. The defence was an unorganised shambles; a throwback to the Hammell/Kettlewell/Alexander eras. Pack the defence, withdraw the 2 full backs into the penalty box and hope for the best. Despite that approach, Celtic found plenty of time and space in our box. The midfield was pretty anonymous and sat far too deep as we played a passive game. No leadership or physicality. Palmer Houlden, and latterly Thor, were left isolated all too often with little support from an overly cautious timid midfield. Throughout the game, we relied far too heavily on aimless high punts up the field. Off the ball work, both in and especially out of possession, was non existent. Transitions were chaotic. I'm still not convinced by Paulsen. A very showy shotstopper, he did, in fairness, produce some fine saves today to keep the scoreline respectable. However he looked culpable for the first goal, and also spilled a fairly innocuous shot. His distribution was poor throughout and that put pressure on a suspect defence. In fairness, no one player was to blame for the defeat, but Longelo and a poor Sparrow weren't helped by lack of cover in front of them. Our subs were far too late and by that time we were 2-0 down. The one bright spark was Said, who really tried to make things happen when he came on. My MOTM. In truth, Celtic could have won by 5 or 6 goals comfortably. I wasn't looking for a win but was hoping to see some kind of improvement in performance; some progression if you will, but all we seemed to show was regression.

Yeh. The difference was that, under JBA, you could see what the team was trying to do from the very start of his tenure. There was an identity. The same can’t be said for the start of Alfred’s tenure, and that’s my biggest concern.

Not gonna lie. Starting to get a bit concerned. I raised an eyebrow at the starting line up when I saw Vogt in it. However, I did feel more comfortable seeing Levitt's name on the teamsheet with what I felt sure looked like a box 4 midfield. What transpired though just looked weird. No idea why we set up the way we did with Hodge of the left. Lowry seemed to be playing in advance of Fadinger and Levitt with Vogt wide. It all appeared very lopsided. Ive heard Alfred talk throughout the break about wanting more intensity in and out of possession and about having more movement off the ball, but I didnt see any of that today. We let Celtic have the ball, didnt get in their faces, didnt track runners, didnt engage opponents in the tackle. It was so passive it was ridiculous. We were lucky to go in at the break only 1 down and the changes should have been made there and then. I really want Vogt to be a success, and he started brightly enough today, but he faded quickly again and by half time he needed hooked. Levitt was also having a very poor game, so I would have changed those 2 for Said and Kanga and moved Hodge back to the middle. The fact that Alfred waited until we were 2 down before making those changes is a real concern. As poor as we had been we were still in the game at that point and could have rescued something from the game. His comments afterwards are not filling me with confidence that he is seeing what we are seeing, or that he knows how to fix it. We now go to Kilmarnock next week where a heavy defeat could leave us at the bottom of the league. I do hope Im wrong about all of this as it IS too early to be calling for tge managers head. But its hard to ignore the alarm bells right now.

I'm as disappointed as anyone and as yet unconvinced by the manager or indeed most of the signings but people wanting the manager sacked 8 games into the season is absolutely laughable. 8 games for fuck sake !!! get a grip. I listened to this same kind of talk when Pressley was 10 games in at Dundee.

Tawanda and Kanga should have started on the bench, Tawanda has been pish for months and deserves a place on the bench Kanga just isn't up to speed yet. I have no issue with the manager trying something different, including giving Vogts a start. My issue was it was very clear in the first half Vogts wasn't going to cut it today and the midfield was totally ineffective. So why did the manager wait to change it. It should have been changed at half time.... AT THE LATEST The manager watched Sparrow being shagged the entire 1st half and did nothing to protect or help him. Sparrow ain't a right back but if you ask him to do that job he should get support / help 100% the managers fault.

Virtually every season, you mention relegation as a certainty. And yet here we are, in our 42nd season in the top flight.

Quite a few of our fans were against Craig Brown getting our job in 2009 based on what he did with Scotland. But he turned out alright in the end. Sometimes pragmatic beats excitement/experiment.

And chase away the crowds

Willy looked lost as if he was a laddie playing with the big boys. No vision to run forward for a pass whatso ever. Just filling a jersey. But what is worse is the manager selecting him and keeping him on so long.

You and I definitely watch different games. Celtic opened us up time and again 6 or 7 goals to Celtic would not have been an injustice.

Yeah but both their goals were gifted by us. They hit the bar and I think it was Hassan should scored a tap in but other than that it was mostly routine stuff that was either speculative or that the goalkeeper would be expected to save. I said Celtic dominated possession and deserved to win but they didn't tear us to shreds. If it wasn't for O'Donnell's pass back it would have been 0-1 and who knows, we might even have got something out the game.

He might be a dud. But we are 8 games into a league season. Our average points total this decade after 8 matches is 10 points. We are 2 points behind that having played both Rangers and Celtic. BTW our best start under any manager this decade was under Stuart Kettlewell and our worst start was under Askou. So just ponder on that for a bit.

Well that's exactly what I'd expect from you. It's not a transitional period? We've lost a manager, more or less a whole team and we've just come through a 4 game cycle again three city clubs, two of whom have 15 times our budget and historically we usually lose against.

If we don't beat Killie next week he's under enormous pressure. They're leaking goals like nobody's business. Only a victory will do for me.

Can we get a refund then with no return postage charges.

It’s probably a bit unfair to single out Vogt. It’s not his fault that he’s not up to the standard of the league (yet?). It is, however, the manager’s fault for continuing to stick by him to the detriment of the team. And that’s probably going to be the hill he dies on.

Pretty much saved me a post there mate. Thanks 🙂 Sparrow and his constant turning back has been a major factor in us not being able to get forward. Before the team was announced I'd have expected SOD to replace Sparrow and Knight-Lebel to replace Girdwood Reich. Vogt starting was just a joke. The attacking up the right all the time with one player who is neither a RB or an attacking midfielder and one player who isn't even a player was a tragic piece of management. Not using Longelo the way he should be is criminal and the defensive midfield not moving like they did last year (off the ball) is worrying. We've also stopped trying to move quickly at free kicks and throw ins. I could go on all day.......looks like The Swedish kettlewell has learned nothing during the break.

Absolutely dismal stuff. That isn’t a team it’s a bunch of individuals who don’t know what they’re expected to do led by a manager who is badly out of his depth.

Probably the same as us. 👎

That must be one of the most inept performances from any team at any level.

Our manager needs sacked asap. This guy is a fraud. Relegation beckons with this team and him being the manager

Utterly incredible selection….. there to be proved wrong obviously and I’m not singling anyone out but that’s a shocker of a selection. Happy to see SODs back though.

Shocking line up imo

I am fully still supportive of Alfred Johansson. We are still still playing good football without recent results Hopefully one result to kickstart things and getting us going again. If not tomorrow then definetly next weekend.

We dont have a referee in this country with the nuts to give that. They are all either corrupt or shitebags.