star sail

How do you fluke a top 6 finish?

Stephen Robinson got us to two cup finals in a season losing to Celtic both times. He also had us in 3rd place when the league was terminated due to coronavirus. You only have to look back at the threads at that time to see that a minority of the support were moaning about him then. I think the word imposter was a favourite back then too. We will never, ever get a manager that will satisfy that minority of our support. I am sure that every team has them.

Now that's a Propper own goal!! Let's hope it unsettles them.

Agreed. I think that is something that is always overlooked. It takes weeks to build fitness back to a competitive level after an injury. In Hallidays case, the notion that he will be fully fit and match sharp after a month of pre-season at his age is very optimistic. He has to get minutes on the pitch and we may not see him coming into his own until September/October. I fear for Slattery's return as well. He will be given about 5 mins to get match fit before the knives are out.

I don't think there is anything we have seen so far this season to change the perceptions of individual fans from the end of last season. Those who wanted Kettlewell sacked last season are already building the rhetoric to hold that same position this season. Those (like me) who thinks we are playing a waiting game and that it could still go either way for Kettlewell and the team are still playing a waiting game. It is too early to really say. Halliday will need time if he is to come good this season. He also needs time on the pitch. The new players need time to settle. The positives are that we are unbeaten in our competitive games ths season. (in 90 mins) and we looked better than RC. Interestingly the BBC Text commentary noted some surprise that there was boos coming from sections of the Well support at full time. I think the hangover from last season may be skewing our judgement of what the early season looks like.

This is a very good summary of the season. I think there has actually been a consistency to the season that is overshadowed a little by the winless run in the winter. Without dazzling or ever really being comprehensibly thumped it has generally been a mediocre season. This seems strange to say when we have been really competitive against the OF and we got th long awaited league victory against Rangers Looking at Kettlewell's record as a whole over one and a half seasons, I think there is reason to believe we have the makings of a decent manager who will improve with time. He reminds me a little of Derek McInnes, never sensational, never completely at sea just steady making incremental improvements. If that incremental improvement continues Wellfan could get his wish of a top 6 finish and I think it is reasonable for him ( and all of us) to set that as the next target . Overall I think the club has reached an equilibrium just now that will serve as a good basis to push on to greater things. I am excited for next season but then I am a self aware happy clapper. Looking forward to my hands being red raw next season.

Goal difference of +1 is non too shabby. We have lost alot of games by a single goal this season.

Kettlewell to Hearts exclusive?

Is that a deliberate typo for our Andy.

Whatever happened to Steve Diggle? Always enjoyed his contribution to Steelmen Online. I think the contrary views is what makes the forum successful. Enjoy your contributions too MJC even if I don't always agree. It livens things up nicely. Well done to Kettlewell and the team for getting us over the line. Motherwell maintain their top flight status yet again. Remember one of only three teams in Scotland to maintain that very proud record. All involved did really well to turn the pre Christmas form around. Would have liked a Cup run and top 6 but survival is the marker for success every year. Can't wait for the new Kettlewell out thread in late August!!! Meantime we can relax a bit.

I am not 100% sure exactly what side of the fence the original pie and Bovril poster is landing on but certainly the notion that it is not possible to realise emotions of anger and frustration out with 90 mins of a football match suggests a laziness of thought and a lack of willingness to take responsibility for our own lives. There are other ways to tackle these emotions that do not involve abusing other human beings at a football match. I don't doubt that many of us live our lives under significant stress. The figures for male suicide in particular is staggering and ofcourse football is a fantastic way to escape from the stresses and strains of our daily life. However football cannot be used as an excuse for intimidating and aggressive behaviour. I have watched Motherwell fans over the years hiding behind the claret and amber flag to excuse behaviours that would not be accepted in any other walk of life. What about the players suffering with mental illness? What about the steward that has dragged him/ herself to work after a family bereavement? What about the policeman/ policewoman gripped by anxiety? What about the football manager who's life is falling apart because he/ she is spending all their time trying to keep a job that is always only potentially a few weeks from ending? Do these people stop being human beings from 3pm till 445pm on a Saturday so that the rest of us can vent our frustration? Are we really that selfish?

Hibs supporter and Aberdeen supporters have every right to be pouring over the post mortem this evening. Two relatively massive clubs in our league who have underperformed yet again. The stand out team for me has been St Mirren. Top six for the second year in a row. They have shown the difference a good manager makes. Robinson did it with us and now St Mirren. Mind-blowing to think that there was Motherwell fans that argued from the time Robinson arrived with us that he was not up to the standard of our league. As for us, Kettlewell has met his target once again. To keep us in the division. The victory at Ibrox apart it has been a very mediocre season but there is still the possibility of finishing best of the rest for the second year in a row which from an objective perspective is about exactly where we do weigh in. I would be lying if I said that I was not slightly underwhelmed by this season but I always remind myself that we remain one of only three teams to stay in the top division spanning over the last five decades. It is an extraordinary achievement and looks like continuing for at least one season more.

Regarding the VAR decisions and refereeing standards in general, I am happy to accept that mistakes are made. VAR has significant human input and players, managers and referees are making mistakes all the time on the field of play. Any reasonable person has to accept honest mistakes. Where I struggle is with the lack of transparency. If there was an explanation after the game by the referee as to the thought process behind why the Bair hand ball is a hand ball and the Shinnie one not, then it would educate everyone as to the interpretation of the rules from a referees perspective and give managers, players and fans the reassurance that the decision was reached in a rational, fair minded way. The fact that there is no transparency is what sows doubt in the mind. The silence suggests that the referees are not so confident in their processes at best and are simply making it up as they go along at worst. These decisions can be the difference between Premier League survival or not. It is too important to let the whims of Collum or any other referee determine what happens. Transparency allows the referees to show that their decisions were reached in a fair minded and honest way even if we don't always agree with it. I don't understand why governing bodies shy away from the opportunity to prove the legitimacy of their processes.

Is there any chance at all that Stuart Kettlewell could be on Aberdeen's shortlist? If they are talking about contracted managers in Scotland, there is not a huge pool to draw upon.

I actually can't believe it!!!! The ref can't give a penalty when the players are in the changing rooms can he? 27 years wait but it feels so good. Celebrations tonight! Enjoy Well fans .

You have certainly made your preferences clear in that regard, time and time again. I am still licking the wounds from last weekend and although we have to beat Rangers at some point in what time remains of human life on this planet, I just can't see it being this weekend. There is always that wee voice in my head all the same that says 'you just never know ' A draw would be a great result this weekend.

This is becoming harder for you to sell with each passing week wellfan. 3 points off top six with a better goal difference than the teams around us suggests that the board got it right to stick with him. Changing the manager has not really worked for RC, St Johnstone or Aberdeen. Maybe you need to drop this now? Great result tonight after a strong performance at the weekend. It is all heading in the right direction.

I was speaking to a colleague at work who is a Celtic fan on Monday morning and he was commenting on how fit he thought the Motherwell team looked. Kettlewell has had a significant amount of misfortune in his time with us, losing players through injury and contract negotiations etc. I do sense that there is a real effort to do things in the right way and that the misfortune of injuries is just an additional challenge that he has had to adapt to as the season has progressed. With RC currently winning tonight, the game tomorrow becomes just that little bit more important. If it was at FP I would be confident but on the plastic pitch I would take a draw with no additional injuries.

MJC, I have a huge amount of sympathy with what you have to say here and the game you mention was a perfect example of a Motherwell manager talking us into defeat before a ball was kicked. Our record against the OF is terrible and it is slightly depressing when you see our own fans just accept it and defend it as being just fine. What I would say is that when you see how poor our record has been over the last couple of decades, it makes it all the more remarkable that both Robinson and Baraclough were able to change the narrative, if only temporarily. Our league is heavily weighted in terms of the OF, there is no doubt about that and when you see the meltdown that occurs when another Premiership team goes to Celtic Park or Ibrox and dares to even draw ( as per Killie on Saturday) then you can tell that beating the OF is never considered part of the script for any team . I think I read at the weekend that Ross County have never beaten Rangers. If that is true, it shows just how heavily the cards are stacked. You just never know about this weekend. I think we deserve just one headline, marquee result this season. This just might be it. We have to dream.

I see that Stephen Robinson got involved in an argument today with a fan. Steelboy must have been taking in the Livingston v St Mirren game and was given it to Robinson for old times sake!! Seriously though, it shows that it does not take much for any of the managers in the league to feel the heat. Disappointed today. I actually thought we could sneak a result. Proof positive that a decent striker can be the difference between 3 rd place and a relegation dog fight in this league. Hope Spittal is fine and back playing soon. Tough week ahead. I would take three points from the next three games however they come.

With Motherwell only a couple of points off of Top 6 and on a shoe string budget, it is controversial that there is any controversy. How's this for some real controversy. Motherwell are going to win this one. I can feel it!!

I am getting to be an old man now, so my passion is not what it once was for the football but I would say that the football is not worthy of tears. It is too much emotion invested in a group of footballers who will often let you down. I understand the frustration though. I think you have provided a really good balance to some of the negativity on the forum in recent weeks but the team has let us down tonight. Nothing to do with ability. Motherwell were the better footballing side. They just did not want it enough. A lack of fight is hard to defend.

I had a feeling that was coming tonight. The performances have been building towards that result tonight. I have to say, I have been really impressed with the way Kettlewell has managed his way through this last 6 months. The low point was definitely RC away but that apart we were never being completely overrun by teams and since that low point there has been a very steady, almost methodical, incremental improvement week by week that built up to the performance this evening. He has spotted a player in Theo Bair and has managed him really well despite the pressure the team has been under. Delighted for Spittal tonight. Really honest, capable player who has clearly suffered from the teams loss of form. It has been a long, hard Autumn/ Winter but I really believe this team have turned a corner. 4th place anyone?

In regards to both Moult and KVV, we should celebrate the fact that for both of them, the most productive spells in their career were with us. I don't doubt that KVV will be a good addition for Kilmarnock but I will be very surprised if he hits the heights of 12 months ago. Tony Watt possibly falls into that category also. We look forward now to unearthing the next hidden gem.

Both Rangers and Celtic are as bad as each other. I had relatives who lived on Firpark Street in the 1980's in the days of the old terracing and the intimidation they had to endure when the OF teams came to town was disgusting. I think that any Motherwell fan showing a leaning for one or the other is because they have a leaning, not because one teams behaviour is worse than the other. With church attendance dropping off a cliff in recent decades it would be hard to argue that the UK is still a Christian country so the catholic/ protestant divide is one that even the most enthusiastic of sectarian bigots must be finding harder and harder to justify. Admittedly it was always a political rather than a spiritual difference of opinion anyway. I used to get heated about and against the OF but in old age I really don't have any particular feelings against either. In fact I find myself supporting both teams in European competition these days. It makes for a far less emotive enjoyment of the Scottish game in general. Regarding the refereeing inconsistencies, I don't think there is any doubt that both OF teams benefit from decisions in Scotland but it is only on the more marginal 50/50, 60/40 decisions. There is certainly no conspiracy theory behind the reasons for this, it is simply human nature. I had a very close family friend who was a prominent Scottish referee in the 1980's. I got to witness the fallout for both him and his family if he made a controversial decision against either side of the OF. On more than one occasion he had to move his family to a safe house because of death threats and attacks on their household. This was a phenomenon unique to the OF teams. The threat is so real that is it any wonder that either consciously or sub-consciously referee's go with the path of least resistance on the 50/50 calls. I think this becomes all the more acute in the last 5 minutes of evenly balanced games. As an aside, my family friend was a Motherwell fan and he was of the opinion that, over the years he was harsher on Motherwell than any other team. His belief was that he subconsciously overcompensated so that there could be no accusations of favouritism.